So I’ve been restarting my mare from the ground up.
I’ve been desensitizing her and getting her prepared to be mounted again. However, when I jump anywhere within 7 feet of her or if I just stomp my feet or skip, she pins her ears at me and snakes her head at me with her teeth bared sometimes. Yet if I do approach and retreat methods until I can touch her, she is fine if I’m touching her while doing it. Only on the neck though. So should I just keep jumping around and making a fool of myself until she learns to deal with it?
Just my opinion…
The mare doesn’t see you as the boss. She’s the boss. You’re annoying her, so she makes a face at you. When you approach/retreat, she is allowing you into her space as she would an annoying foal.
[QUOTE=DancingArabian;8071588]
Just my opinion…
The mare doesn’t see you as the boss. She’s the boss. You’re annoying her, so she makes a face at you. When you approach/retreat, she is allowing you into her space as she would an annoying foal.[/QUOTE]
I see what you’re saying. I’ve been meaning to do some round penning with her but we are waiting on diagnosis from vet to see what’s up with her stifle
I train our cattle with jumping. A stamp means move back a couple of steps. A jump means go back several feet.
The only time I jump with the horses is if I call them to come and they ignore me. I jump to get their attention but they are usually not near me. I don’t jump when they are near me other than jumping off to dismount and land with 2 feet together.
[QUOTE=kbdb32;8071538]
she pins her ears at me and snakes her head at me with her teeth bared sometimes.[/QUOTE]
I have to admit I have never had this problem. The first time one of my horses threatened me would be the last time. I would have stopped it long before it escalated to bared teeth. You and your mare need help before she hurts you!
Well if I go jumping around my dogs, they assume I want to play. Were I to jump around my horses I suspect I would get a similar reaction.
Be thankful she only shakes her head at you.
I think you need a bit more time studying “horse” and thinking like a horse. I will say that my observation is that some people never get it. Just remember that horses are very attentive to what we think are minor body shifts.
I normally wouldn’t jump around horses but I’m trying to get her prepared for when I mount. If I stand next to her like I’m going to mount (no saddle on) she does the same exact thing even if all I do is jump once.
Get and train her to a mounting block. Jumping onto a green horse is not the way to approach it.
It’s a respect issue. My geldings would NEVER pin their ears at the “herd boss” horse. They see me as boss mare and any turning of butt toward me, or pinning ears, or failure to move out of my way (or heaven forbid touch me without my permission) is met as boss mare would meet such behavior from another horse. I whip around and elbow (human kick) or raise my arms (human rearing) and definitely “pin my own ears.” The boys respect me.
Story: I was riding the fence and saw my neighbor’s nine horses lined up at the fence, watching me. An old mare walked up behind them and MOVED ONE EAR. Every horse on the fence moved sideways (quickly) to make room for her. The old mare HAD TRAINED nine horses to move when she moved an ear. Since then, I’ve set a somewhat higher standard for my horses response to my non-verbal cues. When I walk forward and put my shoulder forward, whoever is in front of me should move out of my way. Generally, the geldings are pretty well behaved. But I’m not nearly as good as that old mare who could move nine horses with a single ear movement.
Foxglove
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8072017]
It’s a respect issue. My geldings would NEVER pin their ears at the “herd boss” horse. They see me as boss mare and any turning of butt toward me, or pinning ears, or failure to move out of my way (or heaven forbid touch me without my permission) is met as boss mare would meet such behavior from another horse. I whip around and elbow (human kick) or raise my arms (human rearing) and definitely “pin my own ears.” The boys respect me.
Story: I was riding the fence and saw my neighbor’s nine horses lined up at the fence, watching me. An old mare walked up behind them and MOVED ONE EAR. Every horse on the fence moved sideways (quickly) to make room for her. The old mare HAD TRAINED nine horses to move when she moved an ear. Since then, I’ve set a somewhat higher standard for my horses response to my non-verbal cues. When I walk forward and put my shoulder forward, whoever is in front of me should move out of my way. Generally, the geldings are pretty well behaved. But I’m not nearly as good as that old mare who could move nine horses with a single ear movement.
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
What a nice story and true understanding of horsemanship!
OP you on the road to a very bad train wreck. I too suggest getting a horseman to help you understand how you are training this horse to be dangerous! Please get help before you are hurt and the horse ends up with her head cut off for your mistakes.
[QUOTE=kbdb32;8071900]
I normally wouldn’t jump around horses but I’m trying to get her prepared for when I mount. If I stand next to her like I’m going to mount (no saddle on) she does the same exact thing even if all I do is jump once.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, OP, I don’t think you are reading this mare well enough to be the ideal candidate for breaking her.
She should let you stand next to her, or really, to invade her space and touch her where ever you’d like before you’ll mount her. But you need to be able to know how to communicate with her in order to get the point across that you have this privilege.
I don’t think that jumping or stomping at this mare as you describe is doing much to desensitize her or get her to move away from you (or whatever). In fact, I can’t tell what you’d like her to do when you make those moves.
As long as she’s pinning her ears at you, you can trust that she’s not afraid, though perhaps she’s (understandably) defensive. If the horse isn’t afraid “desensitization” is not what’s called for.
See what I mean? You need to get better at inferring her thoughts before you swing a leg over her.
[QUOTE=kbdb32;8071538]
she pins her ears at me and snakes her head at me with her teeth bared sometimes. [/QUOTE]
What do you do to correct her when she does this?
[QUOTE=kbdb32;8071538]
So should I just keep jumping around and making a fool of myself until she learns to deal with it? [/QUOTE]
For myself, I actually do the exact same thing when I’m starting a colt. I’ll make sudden movements on purpose, and jump around and “act a fool”. I’d rather have them desensitized to my sudden movements on the ground, than learn the hard way (when I’m in the saddle) that they aren’t desensitized. I try to do things that will spook them, so that they learn how to respond to it and keep their head on their shoulders.
There’s a difference in my body languange when I’m jumping around like a goof to desensitize, than when I want them to move a specific part of their body. And the horse learns that. They are smart.
[QUOTE=MerryGoRound;8071538]
Well if I go jumping around my dogs, they assume I want to play. [/QUOTE]
Yes, true.
But I could also instruct my dog to “stay” and jump all over the place and she would continue to stay, as I instructed.
[QUOTE=kbdb32;8071538]
I’ve been meaning to do some round penning with her [/QUOTE]
You don’t have to “round pen” a horse to gain their respect. You can do much of it at a standstill or a walk.
Do you have a trainer you can work with?
If your mare is baring her teeth at you, it only takes another split second for her to decide to charge you, or whirl and kick you.
While it sounds like you may have a general idea of how to re-start a horse, you might be lacking in your execution and timing. Timing is so very important when training a horse, and you cannot learn timing over the internet.
I don’t understand the approach and retreat thing. What are you trying to accomplish with this? And what was the problem that caused you to restart this mare?
I use a systematic desensitization - stick then plastic bag then whip cracking. Mounting has just never been a big deal.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8072841]
I don’t understand the approach and retreat thing. What are you trying to accomplish with this? And what was the problem that caused you to restart this mare?
I use a systematic desensitization - stick then plastic bag then whip cracking. Mounting has just never been a big deal.[/QUOTE]
See, she’s fine with it until I try to get close and touch her while I hop or something. So if she would relax and stop moving while I’m touching her, then I would back off and let that be her reward.
I’m trying to get her prepared for mounting. I currently don’t have a mounting block (will be getting one though) so I want her to be safe to mount from the ground. If I have to hop about or something or if there is an accident and I’m caught with a. Foot in the stirrup hopping around on the other foot, I want her to be steady and not try to move or bit or kick.
I’m restarting her because I got her and found that she has some serious holes in her training.
I restarted my mare without hopping and jumping near her.
You should use a mounting block. It is better for your horse’s back and it is better for the saddle’s spine and it is better for the stirrup’s leather.
Once mounted she is not allowed to move until I have played with the stirrups and patted her on her neck, chest. Behind leg and behind saddle. This was after a bad reaction to the rein touching her neck.
When I dismount I take both feet out of the stirrups so no worries about getting my foot caught.
I see this is on western so I presume you dismount with a foot in the stirrup. I also presume you can only do this if the horse is not too tall for your body.
You are a predator with your eyes on the front of your face. Jumping to me means you are attacking. JMHO.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8073299]
I restarted my mare without hopping and jumping near her.
You should use a mounting block. It is better for your horse’s back and it is better for the saddle’s spine and it is better for the stirrup’s leather.
Once mounted she is not allowed to move until I have played with the stirrups and patted her on her neck, chest. Behind leg and behind saddle. This was after a bad reaction to the rein touching her neck.
When I dismount I take both feet out of the stirrups so no worries about getting my foot caught.
I see this is on western so I presume you dismount with a foot in the stirrup. I also presume you can only do this if the horse is not too tall for your body.
You are a predator with your eyes on the front of your face. Jumping to me means you are attacking. JMHO.[/QUOTE]
As I said before, I don’t have a mounting block currently but will be getting one soon.
Yes I ride western but I don’t dismount like that. I kick both feet out of the stirrups and land on both feet.
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8072017]
It’s a respect issue. My geldings would NEVER pin their ears at the “herd boss” horse. They see me as boss mare and any turning of butt toward me, or pinning ears, or failure to move out of my way (or heaven forbid touch me without my permission) is met as boss mare would meet such behavior from another horse. I whip around and elbow (human kick) or raise my arms (human rearing) and definitely “pin my own ears.” The boys respect me.
Story: I was riding the fence and saw my neighbor’s nine horses lined up at the fence, watching me. An old mare walked up behind them and MOVED ONE EAR. Every horse on the fence moved sideways (quickly) to make room for her. The old mare HAD TRAINED nine horses to move when she moved an ear. Since then, I’ve set a somewhat higher standard for my horses response to my non-verbal cues. When I walk forward and put my shoulder forward, whoever is in front of me should move out of my way. Generally, the geldings are pretty well behaved. But I’m not nearly as good as that old mare who could move nine horses with a single ear movement.
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY, I can jump around, touch or move ANY part of their body, I am the boss.
Their space is MINE, I can go anywhere, they are NOT allowed in my space uninvited at all. It their job to move around my bubble, I walk into them, THEY move out.
ANY threatening behavior on their part will be met w/a sudden, but clear sign that isn’t gonna work and was a very BAD idea.
This may just show up now w/you are jumping, but I guarantee she is SHOWING you it in many other situations.
You can move HER feet, but she can NEVER move YOURS.
The retreat thing is just showing her that she can move you, therefore, in horse language, she IS the boss.
Not good 
Things are gonna get worse unless you can get some help.
[QUOTE=Shermy;8073318]
EXACTLY, I can jump around, touch or move ANY part of their body, I am the boss.
Their space is MINE, I can go anywhere, they are NOT allowed in my space uninvited at all. It their job to move around my bubble, I walk into them, THEY move out.
ANY threatening behavior on their part will be met w/a sudden, but clear sign that isn’t gonna work and was a very BAD idea.
This may just show up now w/you are jumping, but I guarantee she is SHOWING you it in many other situations.
You can move HER feet, but she can NEVER move YOURS.
The retreat thing is just showing her that she can move you, therefore, in horse language, she IS the boss.
Not good Things are gonna get worse unless you can get some help.[/QUOTE]
I can’t believe I didn’t realize what I was doing. Everyone is right. I wasn’t reading her correctly and I was letting her move me.
Today when she did that we had a little come to jesus meeting and she was completely fine afterwards.
See, she’s fine with it until I try to get close and touch her while I hop or something. So if she would relax and stop moving while I’m touching her, then I would back off and let that be her reward.
Um, no. That is not how it works. SHE is training YOU.
I don’t get why you are jumping around her anyway.
How do you know there are holes in her training?
[QUOTE=RPM;8073818]
Um, no. That is not how it works. SHE is training YOU.
I don’t get why you are jumping around her anyway.
How do you know there are holes in her training?[/QUOTE]
I know I realize that and I am working to change how I’m doing things. I will be working with a trainer soon so don’t worry.
Well her old owners I got her from, all they did with her was run, run, run. She was hard mouthed, spooky, very pushy, and had hardly any manners on the ground. I could ride her but she knew w hardly anything. Basically all we could do was go forwa Rd d and stop in straight lines. So trainer and I figured it would just be best to restart her from the ground up and establish respect and ground manners before we try riding her more
