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Aussie Stock Saddles

Endurance and Trail Riding
#1

Hello endurance folk!

I have a friend who has a keen interest in Aussie stock saddles and thinks that one would be the Miracle Saddle for her as a rider with cerebral palsy, but I have no experience with them and have no clue how to fit one to the horse or rider.

My best guess would be to fit it similar to a dressage saddle to the horse?

Most of the stock saddles available locally look extremely narrow, and while the horse she rides has a sharkfin wither and narrow topline, he has huge QH shoulders, and the saddles I’ve seen don’t look nearly wide enough to fit his shoulders.

My suggestion to her if she is dead-set on a stock saddle, was to look into a Wintec or Bates stockman with the gullet plate system, so she can theoretically fit it to different horses in the future. But I don’t actually know if they are any good. Does anyone have any experience with them? The horse she rides fits a few different Wintec english saddles nicely, including 2 dressage models, so if a stock saddle is meant to fit similarly to a dressage saddle I am confident that one of the wintec or bates saddles would suit him.

I am also a bit confused about how seats are measured on the aussie saddles. I know they are different than english or western sizing but that’s about it. She is very petite and is best suited to a 16 or 16.5 seat in an english saddle, so what would we be looking at in an aussie?

Sorry for my ignorance. These are probably silly questions, but I trust the COTH community!

thanks!

#2

The Aussie saddles I’ve seen have a kind of felt underside, and then flocking inside that. I wouldn’t say they fit like a dressage saddle any more than I’d say they fit like a Western saddle. The girthing is different from either. Sounds like you need a good saddle fitter to tell you how much if any the shoulders are a consideration in saddle fit for this particular horse. Also keep in mind that there are some pretty cheaply made Aussie saddles out there. You could also direct your friend to endurance saddles.

#3

The fitters in the area solely work with english saddles, unfortunately. I had to ship my western saddle to the other end of the province recently just to find someone who could evaluate it for me when I recently thought I might have a broken bar. Thankfully it is fine, but it was a pain to have to ship it off just to be looked at.

The horse has been fit with a couple wintec english saddles by one of the saddle fitters in the area, one for his adult riders and one for his kid riders. My friend has been told she is welcome to get her own saddle to use, provided it fits him. The fitter did conplain about his narrow back/high wither/wide shoulder combo so I think it’s safe to say it’s going to need to be taken into consideration. That said, until last spring, he was ridden exclusively in a less than great fitting western saddle for over a decade and his back did okay even in heavy work, so maybe it isn’t as tricky as the english fitter makes it sound?

She is dead set on an aussie. She has turned her nose up at any other suggestions I have made. Claims that “nothing could possibly keep her as secure as an aussie with poleys”. I even suggested we find bigger velcro blocks to add to the english saddle he was fit with to see if blocks or poleys are even appropriate for her and her disability and she won’t humour me. It’s honestly a little frustrating, haha!

Her instructor is only familiar with english saddles and since I have at least a reasonable amount of experience with western tack and harness, the instructor asked me to look into it as I have more time to do so than she does.

Are there any fitters familiar with aussie saddles in north america that i could reach out to perhaps?

#4

Has your friend ever ridden in an Aussie saddle or is she just basing this on internet visuals? If she has a physical disability it might be worth contacting a therapeutic riding center in your area and asking what they use.

My adult beginner friend bought an Aussie saddle from a small scale dealer/ importer in our region, who was very helpful and service oriented. The cost was very low, under $500.

However unfortunately it turns out that the dealer possibly didn’t really know her stuff. When I finally got my friend to have my independent saddle fitter consult with her it turned out the saddle was a general not great fit for the horse, and was asymmetrical left to right, apparently a factory defect? I never liked how the saddle shifted with the rider, and she had a lot of pads under it to try to compensate.

Anyhow this one experience has left me a bit leery of Aussie saddles as distributed in Canada. There must be quality stock saddles out there somewhere, but they are not being sold new in Canada for $450.

#5

Sometimes a saddle just doesn’t fit the rider no matter how well it fits the horse.

I’ve tried Aussies a few times they just don’t work for me. I’m not even sure why; no matter the brand or size the style does not fit my conformation.

For what it’s worth, neither does the McClellan cavalry saddle (no matter the size of model).

Your friend should find a couple locally and go sit in them. They don’t even need to be on a horse. Just sit there with the stirrups properly adjusted and see how it feels. If they like it then they can do some shopping. But if it’s just NQR then maybe it’s not for them.

I’m informed that there are multiple “variations on the Aussie theme” from maker to maker, as you might find in U.S. Western saddles. So sitting and like Brand A might not be the case with Brand B, even if both measure and same and claim the same basic design.

I’m told by a couple of folks who ride these regularly that MUCH of what is out there junk. Have your friend let their fingers put Google to work and research brands. I’d bet money that there are Aussie saddle discussion groups out there, even if they are in Australia. Right now the U.S. dollar is high and that means some advantage searching overseas, including Australia. Of course there are risks in this but I’m sure there are reputable Aussie makers and dealers.

Good luck in your project.

G.

#6

I’ve owned several Australian stock saddles over the years and I really like them. Yes, in general, they feel much more secure.

There are two basic types. One is built more like a traditional English saddle. That’s because the original Aussie saddles were built off the traditional English saddle that the original settlers brought with them from England. The Wintec stock saddles are like this. They fit a horse very much like any English saddle would.

The second is a newer style that is sort of a hybrid between a western saddle and an Australian saddle. Something like this:

https://www.downunderweb.com/stock-fender-australian-saddle/

These are called “stock fender,” “halfbreed” or “crossover” saddles, depending on the manufacturer/marketing team. These fit a horse more like a traditional western saddle and may thus give a better fit for rounder horses with lower withers.

As far a sizing goes: https://www.downunderweb.com/fitting-seat/

However, be aware that Aussie saddles typically give you a much deeper fit between the poleys and deep seat, so those with a more, uuhh, curvaceous figure, or big thighs, might want to size up.

My only advice is to avoid cheap saddles and the places who sell them. I think in your friend’s case, since you already know that Wintec saddles fit the horse and you have people familiar with fitting English saddles to help, a Wintec would be a good choice. And if that works out well and she wants to upgrade to leather, she can always trade it in on a Bates.

1 Like
#7

Good advice. My impression based on limited exposure to my friend’s experience and to what I’ve seen on consignment was junky saddles. Doesn’t mean they are all like that. But I feel in Canada they might fill a niche of cheap, quirky, and different. One of the things my friend said was “you ride different in these because they put you in a chair seat.” No idea if that’s true generally, but chair seat is my sworn enemy :slight_smile:

And despite my friend feeling more secure with the poleys, two years in that saddle did nothing for her seat or form. Not because of the poleys but because of saddle fit for horse and rider. She is doing much better in a standard old school western saddle now where she can get her leg under her.

#8

The chair seat is fairly common among Australian saddles, but not universal. It’s just a matter of trying different ones and seeing what you like. The stock fender saddle I have currently puts me in about the same position as a dressage saddle.

#9

My friend has several for her Paso Finos. I find them comfortable except for one which had a hard seat. I do not like them on a non gaited horse. I’m not sure what name brand they are. Look for one with a recognized name brand and check reviews.

#10

The one I rode in bumped me in the pubic bone at the rising trot - if I could sit the trot for ever it might have worked.

#11

I’ve owned and ridden several over the years. I like them a lot, but everyone is different. The seat is deep and the high, curving cantle tends to roll the pelvis forward somewhat. The advantage to this is that it restores the lumbar curve in the spine and helps to prevent low back fatigue/pain. The disadvantage is that if you’re used to riding on your buttocks (as many people do in western saddles), you’ll have some adjusting to do. Seat position varies by maker, but the Bates is a pretty balanced seat rather like a dressage saddle.

Most of them don’t have pronounced points like an AP or dressage saddle and the flocked panels are pretty forgiving as to shape, so they’re not as hard to fit to the horse as the typical English saddle, but fit does still matter. The only one I still have is a Bates which was made as a police saddle a couple of decades ago and is no longer marketed, but it is essentially a slightly-modified Kimberley. It has the interchangeable gullets and the CAIR (air-filled) panels which essentially shape themselves to the horse’s back and so far, I haven’t tried it on a horse it didn’t fit including a Percheron cross, but it might be an issue with a full draft horse.

I like the Aussies but they’re not a magic bullet for a disability. They’re just another option in the pantheon of saddle designs. I definitely think your friend should give it a try, but all the usual caveats apply: don’t buy something you haven’t tried and properly fitted to the horse’s back, your butt, etc.

#12

@Scribbler - The horse she rides is at our local therapeutic riding center, where my pony is on lease for their program actually (she doesn’t ride my guy though, and I doubt an aussie would fit him anyway because he is a literal tabletop who is borderline too wide for his 40cm Duett Rondo). We mostly use english tack in the program, with western for a few riders, and bareback with a handled surcingle for the tiniest tots. The instructors are happy to let her get herself an aussie to use as long as it fits the horse, but they have no experience with them so are trusting me to help with that part. There are a lot of Syd Hill and Stockman saddles available locally, along with bush-something (the name escapes me at the moment). I know the sub-$400 new saddles you’re referring to and would never willingly put one on a horse. Haha!

@NoSuchPerson - thanks for those references! Much appreciated! She is rail thin and her disability puts her in a bit of a chair seat even at her most loose/flexible so I don’t think the deepness and poley position will be as much of a concern as they would be for my chunky rear and thunder thighs. Her thing is that she has had a few nasty falls out of english tack and is now terrified to use an english saddle, but she cannot lift a western saddle and the synthetic models don’t seem to work well for her body. Her instructor and I feel that an english saddle with a moderate knee and thigh block would serve a similar purpose but she is convinced that only the poleys could possibly keep her safe.

Just to be clear, I am not the one who thinks that an aussie saddle is the magic answer to her disability needs. I’m just the messenger and the one having to figure out how to fit one. Haha!

Thanks for the helpful feedback folks!

1 Like
#13

I don’t know this for a fact, but it seems likely that a Wintec sits a lot like a Bates (they’re made by the same company) and they’re a lot cheaper. A synthetic saddle holds up just fine to light-to-moderate use in my experience. You might encourage your friend to try a Wintec.

#14

Yes, the Wintec and Bates are the same saddle, just synthetic versus leather. The synthetic is also quite sticky and can offer a feeling of extra security.

Syd Hill is a very good brand, and has been around in Australia since the 1800s. Syd Hill does make some models with a changeable gullet plate, but I’m not sure whether they would be availabe to you. The Wintec and Bates are reasonably good brands, and would be your best shot at getting one to fit I think. And of course the Wintec is much lighter than any leather stock saddle. They come in small, medium and large (equivalent to english 16, 17 and 18). One tip if looking at the Wintec/Bates stock saddles in the swinging fender models is that they won’t work for a very short rider, as the fenders can’t be adjusted to a very short length without the fenders buckling.

Stock saddles are fitted more like the english saddles. The biggest difference though is that the area where the poleys are is rigid, so where an english saddle is flexible from just underneath the tree points, the stock saddle is rigid for a few inches further down. This avoids the issue with tree points digging in, but means that even with an xw gullet plate in it, it may be more difficult to fit to some horses. They were originally designed for Australian Stock Horses which are usually a reasonably lightly framed horse. Of course in Australia we have access to many saddlers who will make custom orders on wider trees.

There is another not too expensive synthetic saddle which your friend might like which is called an Ezy-ride and is a collaboration with an Australian saddler and Kieffer. It is on the Kieffer tree which can be adjusted on that heat machine that they use. Is this available to you? It is more of a crossbreed saddle but it does also have the poleys. This one is quite popular over here as an inexpensive option for wider horses that don’t fit into the Wintecs.

Unfortunately I think you really need to be able to trial a saddle before you buy or at least be able to return it if it doesn’t work. Whilst they are more like an english saddle than a western, they will still feel a little different. Having said that, the Aussie dollar is quite low at the moment, so it would be worth pricing out importing directly.

#15

See if you can get her to look at the Crestridge Saddlery site, or talk to the nice folks there. (Someone else mentioned them upthread, with a mule.) They have many saddles designed for mules and gaited horses that are not straight English, not straight Western and not Australian, but sorta elements of what works from all three types. Your friend might dig it. I used Crestridge more than a decade ago for a very round, mutton-withered mare and, man, that saddle has held up great, looks great and was reasonably priced - and the quality is terrific.

I have a Downunder Australian saddle I bought years ago and it is…okay, maybe a C-minus. The girthing is kinda cheap, the leather seems thin and veneer-y and while the saddle itself was comfortable for me, it’s real narrow and did not well fit the Thoroughbred-type ranch horse I had at the time. It also put me in a perpetual chair seat.

#16

I was watching dressage riders at a show over the weekend, and honestly there are dressage saddles out there where the knee rolls/thigh blocks are really just one degree smaller than a poley on an Aussie stock saddle. If the horse is coming towards you, you can’t see any part of the riders leg except the lower calf. And they have deep cantles too.

However, if the rider in question has a disability that means she will sit in a chair seat, and if she wants shorter stirrups, those dressage saddles may not work because they are designed to let the rider brace their thigh on a big moving horse while having a longer leg in the stirrup. But there might be ways of configuring them to work for the rider.

Went Googling, found this as the kind of saddle I am thinking of. Looks pretty hard to fall out of this! But might not work for a rider without a developed long leg in the stirrup.

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/118749182/devoucoux-mendia-black-175in-medium-wide-dressage-saddle.html

#17

I primarily ride Western, but I have an Aussie stock fender that I’m selling. It’s the one with a horn and I find it sits me in a similar position as my wade in terms of deep seat. I find it very strange to ride since it feels a lot like riding an english saddle, without the constant feeling I’m going to slide off the side. It’s comfortable and I don’t feel it puts me in a chair seat, but I definitely prefer my heavy Wade.

Although, I do know there are some people who vastly prefer an Aussie stock because it sits them deep, feels like an English saddle and gives them the security of a western without the weight. If I could get past how funny it looks to me, I’d probably keep it, haha.

#18

Cross-posting this as it may apply and you can find good deals on the Wintec Pro Stock. It has English billets and leathers so I can use the same girths on it as my dressage saddle. Have been very happy with mine:

I have a Wintec Pro Stock which I bought after a big spooky warmblood dropped me in the trail out of my Albion dressage saddle over a hissing Canada goose. The ass did the ole slam on the brakes, drop the shoulder and spin away maneuver leaving me in the dirt. So I wanted something with a bit more grip for riding young horses in and also trail riding. I’ve had it a while now and absolutely love it. It’s light at I think 17lbs without fittings. I’ve swapped out the gullet quite a few times and have ridden in it on everything from narrow TB’s to Arabian crosses and now my big draft crosses. I wanted something easier to manage than a western saddle with all the rigging. It also has CAIR and I haven’t had a bit of trouble with it. I ordered one of the Toklat Woolback sheepskin pads to go underneath it. Very easy to maintain, just brush it off or even rinse it off/wipe it down and it looks great. The seat is foam and very comfortable. And yes, the equisuede is very grippy too. No worries about riding in the rain.

I had a Pro Dressage as well and liked it a lot too. They’re a good value for the money. Comfortable and versatile. I had a Pro Endurance a while back as well and should have hung onto it, but didn’t, but the Pro Stock with the thigh polies does hold you in the saddle better during a big spook.

I was recently browsing McCall Wade Saddles which are very well made and pricey, but even their lighter saddles weigh a good 30lbs.

#19

I have an old Aussie stock saddle - bought it over 20 years ago for trail riding; it’s not a particularly high end saddle, and I have to admit I’ve not taken the best care of it (not like my dressage saddles that get coddled) and it’s been amazingly durable.
It’s also my go-to saddle for riding youngsters - it is indeed the most secure saddle I’ve ever ridden in; I’ve ridden in western, dressage, all-purpose - close contact and even a rather hellish Mclelland:lol: And this is the saddle that I’ve never fallen out of - I’ve survived some spectacular spooks in that. It really helps getting a young horse confident going down the road or the trail when I am confident that I’m going to stay topside.:smiley:

#20 
https://www.trailridingsaddles.com/custom-saddle/cascade-wade-saddle

Most of the folks I know with aussie saddles don’t really like them or use them. She might like something from Allegheny Mountain saddles. I think you can put buck rolls on any of their saddles, and they sort of mimic the feel of aussie poleys. They also have a pretty good remote fitting system.

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