Author needing some research help about endurance riding!

[theamir]

ello ! As the title states, I’m an author who is doing some research for a current WIP novel. I know some basics about horses and riding, breeds, etc, but nothing very specific and though the book is a sci-fi/fantasy (with a bit of western vibe thrown in), I want to be sure what I’m writing, in terms of horses, is logical and believable. No magic unicorns here or Shadowfaxes here

My MC (main character) is an experienced scout who usually does his work via horseback. He’s been in that profession for some 20 years and knows his business pretty well, so he’s a good rider and used to going long distances/knows the region very, very well.

That said - in ACT III, he’s got to make an emergency ride of nearly 300 miles and do it as quickly as he possibly can. The horse he is riding, while a “made up breed”, would be a very similar horse to a Barb or Arabian - that is, a desert bred horse with a lot of endurance, in good shape and capable of making the trip with few problems. There are a few places on the way for rest and water, but the MC has to go as quickly as he can (the whole impending doom thing, y’know).

So, my question:

With an experienced rider weighing about 155-160lbs (not a big guy) and a solid horse used to the climate/long rides, how many days would it logically take for the team to make it about 300 miles?

There’s some scrub land, but not a lot of grass/fodder. He’s carrying a concoction of dates and “dam-el” milk (sure you get the idea there) similar to what the bedouin people would use for their horses on long treks where food and water is limited. He also does have some water and there is a well on the way to refill that.

No roads. Terrain would be very similar to this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...43/Outback.JPG

Dry, scrubby, arid.

Any input/answer would be greatly appreciated. I’m writing make-believe but I want that make-believe to be make-sense-believe

[AmarachAcres]

Assuming the horse is fit, and this is their typical lifestyle, then it would depend on “type”. Pony? Draft? mustang style?

Many people with endurance trained horses can do a minimum of 25 miles a day.

If they were in a rush, think Maximus trying to get to his family in Gladiator, 3 days for 300 miles. Of course, he didn’t care about the horse’s welfare, he wanted to save his family and he was going much further.

The US Postal service would switch out horses and the postman would get a fresh horse at every stop. So if you have a messenger service in your book that is another route you could take.

If they are just travelling, then you could do 20/30 miles a day or just 10 miles a day. Depends on if the horse gets a break once they are at their destination.

Less miles per day if they are travelling every day for weeks on end. More miles per day if it is just a few days then a long rest.

[pdq]

A number of years back - quite a few decades - there were 150 mile endurance rides. Lew Hollandar (author: “Endurance Riding” -first pub 1989) rode and promoted them, but they never caught on because the distance was just too great and the probability of being pulled was exponential past 100 miles.

That 150 mile distance was the Sunriver 150 mile ride and he rode it with his wife and 10 year old son. They completed it in 35 hours. That might give you a baseline.

The old cavalary rides were often 300 miles. From the Old Dominion Endurance ride website:

.…1900s as a military test for cavalry mounts. Horses were required to go on a 5-day, 300 mile (483 km) ride carrying at least 200 lbs.

[theamir]

@AmarachAcres;8052243

Assuming the horse is fit, and this is their typical lifestyle, then it would depend on “type”. Pony? Draft? mustang style?

If they were in a rush, think Maximus trying to get to his family in Gladiator, 3 days for 300 miles. Of course, he didn’t care about the horse’s welfare, he wanted to save his family and he was going much further.

The US Postal service would switch out horses and the postman would get a fresh horse at every stop. So if you have a messenger service in your book that is another route you could take.

In my previous post, I believe I mentioned the horse was (though a fantasy breed) very akin to real world desert bred horses known for their superior endurance and needing somewhat less food and water - think Barb or Arabian.

There are no other horses on the way to trade in. He’s got to make this ride alone, it’s very dangerous, and he’s got to do it ASAP -with regard- to the horse’s welfare (and his own) because it’s the only horse available. The horse is in fine shape, but I imagine it’s going to be taxing for even a fit horse used to long travel (not to mention for the rider) to make that kind of haul. Not impossible, but definitely difficult.

Anyway, thanks both for the links and info. I’m going to say, since the horse is fit and the rider is experienced, traveling lightly, and not a heavy man himself (again, 155-160 lbs, tops), and given the 35 hour for 150 miles… Let’s say… 3.5-4 days, hard riding but not so hard as to push the horse beyond its limits. Bit harder of a ride than a cavalry test ride, but his horse will be carrying less weight and is of a desert breed specifically bred for endurance/long travel purposes.

[D_BaldStockings]

You may find some inspiration here

Long Riders A-Z
http://www.thelongridersguild.com/historical%20members/historical_a.htm

[D_BaldStockings]

Back in 1870-1920, most mare owners sent their mare to a stallion in harness or under saddle, sometimes for a good distance:

“Nancy Thurman was retired to the broodmare ranks in 1921. Joe Walker was told to ride her to the farm where Rex Peavine stood. It was a mere 65 mile ride to the Hockaday Farm in Silver Creek, Kentucky. The mare never tired and was always ready to go. As she rode into the yard, a group of dogs came off the porch to greet the approaching mare. She began to strut and snort and Mr. Hockaday announced that he thought Nancy Thurman would have Rex Peavine’s best colt. He proved correct because the following spring of 1922, Nancy Thurman foaled Kalarama Rex.”

http://theamericansaddlebred.blogspot.com/2014/08/82214-nancy-thurman-bhf-hits-100.html

[ehwaz]

There are plenty of people who do 50 miles a day for days on end on the same horse(XP rides). Given what you have said, I would say 3- 4 days would be the fastest reasonable pace if you want the horse to survive. They would need some time to rest/eat/sleep, even in a fast as possible situation.

[2enduraceriders]

[QUOTE=theamir;8052465]
3.5-4 days, hard riding but not so hard as to push the horse beyond its limits.[/QUOTE]
Well, the Shore to Shore rides in Michigan are easily done with less then 5 hours of riding time a day for 250 in 5 days with the horses more then able to keep going so I think your time is way long.
So even alternating rest/ride time that is still more than 50 miles every 10 hours. So if you have a fit horse I cannot see it taking much more then 36 hours and it is feasible to do it in less then 24.

[theamir]

Thanks everyone for the continued input and the links.

I’m from Michigan, so on that I -can- comment: the climate here is going to be a LOT different than an arid desert (think Outback for the setting), so what might be easily doable for a horse here is probably going to really strain a horse in a very hot, dry climate. Not saying it was a wrong answer, above poster, just that it may not work out in the setting of my story and still be feasible.

I think the 3.5ish timeline, from all I’ve read and what people on a few other sites are saying, as well as what’s been posted here, should probably be “believable”, given the emergency circumstances, the experience of the rider and the good health/breed of the horse.

Anyway. I’m going to keep poking around a bit more and researching the topic just to make sure. I’m only in rough draft version 1.0 of my WIP, so I’ve got some leeway yet and can tweak my entire timeline, if necessary, to make sure everything is logical and coming together for the big ACT III showdown.

Thanks all!

[gothedistance]

You might want to consider in your story the rider actually going from point to point to accomplish this 300 miles - meaning the rider will stop and rest in certain towns along the way, or at specific water holes, etc. It would make more sense storywise than to try and force an endurance aspect onto the scene.

Realistically speaking, a horse written wisely can go for days and days with only short periods of rest. Short 10 minutes naps are fine for a horse to recharge their batteries - far, far better than long stretchs of “rest” time to stand and get stiff. As long as food to keep the fuel going is available, and rider gets off and walks the horse for a period of time to give it a rest, I think that the 300 miles could be accomplished well within 3 days, especially if the rider only travels during the cool hours from dusk to dawn and hides out during the hot day. Less sweat occurs and less water is needed to hydrate for night time travel compared to traveling in the heat and sun during the day. A horse’s night vision is extremely good, so traveling in rough terrain should not be an issue. It only becomes an issue for humans who rely upon greater light in order to see. Is there going to be a full or part moon, or two or three, available during this ride?

All said, this scenario needs specific strategy on the rider’s part to keep the horse going, to keep it fed, to offer periods of rest (like walking it for a mile or so before getting on and back to a trot ), and at same time ensure that the rider himself can keep going as well. The rider is going to be the weakest link in this whole scenario, so the writer better be prepared to envision the hardships the rider will endure, and cover all their bases that way. Any experienced endurance person would tell you that.

Your baseline will be this: a horse travels at approximately 7 - 10 miles per hour at a “distance traveling, energy saving” trot, and 3 - 5 mph at a walk. Feeding and grazing can actually be done on the move - it does not have to happen at a standstill. But that involves use of the rider to facilitate the feeding by either letting the horse snatch food as it goes along, or walking alongside the horse feeding it as both human and horse keeps walking. Drinking can also be done on the move when the rider has something to carry the water. Horses do not drink as easily when they walk, but they can be trained to do that by giving them a swallow at each step.

[Guilherme]

Modern endurance riding really doesn’t tell you what you need to know.

Following the Fetterman Massacre at Ft. Kearney, WY in December, 1866 “Portagee” Phillips (not his real name) volunteered to take messages to the telegraph station some 236 miles away. The temperatures at the time were sub-zero with snow. He took two and one half days to make the ride.

Here are two accounts:

http://www.lrgaf.org/journeys/ride-help.htm

http://www.philkearny.vcn.com/phillips.htm

You might want to spend some time on the Long Riders site. It will give you a lot of information on the subject.

G.

[Foxglove]

Food and water? If the terrain is arid, how will man and horse remain hydrated? While the horse could do without food for awhile, as could the man, water would be a concern after the first day.

For the Shore to Shore, we bring hay and the water is at each camp . . .

Foxglove

[gothedistance]

The Long Riders go very, very, very slow with the aim of traveling 1,000 miles with long deadlines, and generally have extra horses and/or pack animals to help carry supplies. This author’s character has to move as fast as possible, so no extra weight and certainly no baggage. Not a good comparison, unfortunately.

The author is also free to have some conditions written into the storyline to help the rider - such as the season being a “rainy one” with skies producing a sparce rain midride which might fill a few rock depressions with lifesaving water along the way for about 12 hours. The rider is also riding a desert bred horse - not a stall kept, hay/grain fed animal - that should be savvy enough to know what is grazeable in the arid lands, and smart enough to grab it while traveling. Plus the rider “knows” the terrain with 20 years experience, knows where water is, knows the route, etc.

The OP has the ability to set the storyline realistically to give the character and horse a reasonable, honest chance of success.

So, not losing sight of what the OP is attempting to do - which is gain an insight into this real world of ours regarding how fast a well fit horse in a familiar environment might cover 300 miles of that landscape with a rider that is both smart and resourceful…and in a hurry. Thus endurance riders and endurance horses successfully finishing 100-150 mile competition rides with start/finish times of 24-36 hours are the closest thing to the best “realistic” scenario for the sci-fi story.

[theamir]

It was probably lost in the original post, as it was long and rambling.

Terrain:
http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/images/Oceania/factfile/Outback.jpg

No towns, no horse changes, emergency situation. He is carrying food for the horse similar to what the Bedouin people would have used during long/dry treks in the “old days” - dates and, for practical purposes, let’s call it camel milk.

There is ONE well on the way in, 100 or so miles into the ride, where he can refill water and rest the horse well. Here, there is some light fodder as well. He also has some water with him. Most of this water will go to the horse, in fact. The rider is a near-human race called “Shyiine”, who are genetically a -little- different than humans in the fact they need about half the water intake (desert humanoid race having evolved to live in the climate). So he, himself, will not need much. He will need rest and, perhaps, a quart of water himself, which he can get at the well.

The Horse:

For practical purposes, is probably very similar to this breed (Barb):

https://horsefactsbymarshahubler.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/the-barb-1.jpg

A desert bred horse, in very good shape, made for dry conditions and with a lot of stamina.

The trick, for me, is not to info dump about the specifics of endurance riding. Readers (in the general sense) aren’t going to know or want to know the ins-and-outs of the ride in the technical sense. I have to blend fiction with logic/believability while making it read smoothly, keeping the tension up, keeping it exciting. The above poster is exactly right in what I’m trying to do: Gain insight in how fast a well fit horse in familiar environment can cover 300 miles of that landscape when the rider is skilled and knows the land/where they can safety take a breather and for how long.

Unfortunately, it is not the rainy season (there is not really a rainy season, persay, in the region the character is in. Like some real world deserts, there is fog…and if he had time, he’d be “harvesting” the moisture from that. But he’s in a big a hurry as he possibly can be without killing the horse or himself). However, as stated, he does have some meager supplies and will get a chance to refill and rest a few times.

I’ll continue to delve into some historical accounts of “emergency rides” of similar distances, as that’s kind of the information I’m really needing to grasp, at a basic level, so my readers can -likewise- understand (but not be overwhelmed by) how difficult the ride is - and if the rider was less skilled or the horse less suited to the climate, chance of success would be very low, indeed.

However, he makes it, and must make it in “reasonable but believable” time frame. Only to get arrested when he hits town but hey, that’s my plot twist to worry about.

Thank you all again for the input!

[theamir]

It was probably lost in the original post, as it was long and rambling.

Terrain:
http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/images/Oceania/factfile/Outback.jpg

No towns, no horse changes, emergency situation. He is carrying food for the horse similar to what the Bedouin people would have used during long/dry treks in the “old days” - dates and, for practical purposes, let’s call it camel milk.

There is ONE well on the way in, 100 or so miles into the ride, where he can refill water and rest the horse well. Here, there is some light fodder as well. He also has some water with him. Most of this water will go to the horse, in fact. The rider is a near-human race called “Shyiine”, who are genetically a -little- different than humans in the fact they need about half the water intake (desert humanoid race having evolved to live in the climate). So he, himself, will not need much. He will need rest and, perhaps, a quart of water himself, which he can get at the well.

The Horse:

For practical purposes, is probably very similar to this breed (Barb):

https://horsefactsbymarshahubler.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/the-barb-1.jpg

A desert bred horse, in very good shape, made for dry conditions and with a lot of stamina.

The trick, for me, is not to info dump about the specifics of endurance riding. Readers (in the general sense) aren’t going to know or want to know the ins-and-outs of the ride in the technical sense. I have to blend fiction with logic/believability while making it read smoothly, keeping the tension up, keeping it exciting. The above poster is exactly right in what I’m trying to do: Gain insight in how fast a well fit horse in familiar environment can cover 300 miles of that landscape when the rider is skilled and knows the land/where they can safety take a breather and for how long.

Unfortunately, it is not the rainy season (there is not really a rainy season, persay, in the region the character is in. Like some real world deserts, there is fog…and if he had time, he’d be “harvesting” the moisture from that. But he’s in a big a hurry as he possibly can be without killing the horse or himself). However, as stated, he does have some meager supplies and will get a chance to refill and rest a few times.

I’ll continue to delve into some historical accounts of “emergency rides” of similar distances, as that’s kind of the information I’m really needing to grasp, at a basic level, so my readers can -likewise- understand (but not be overwhelmed by) how difficult the ride is - and if the rider was less skilled or the horse less suited to the climate, chance of success would be very low, indeed.

However, he makes it, and must make it in “fast but believable” time frame. Only to get arrested when he hits town but hey, that’s my plot twist to worry about.

Thank you all again for the input!

[kdreger]

Desert and one place for water he had better ride in the cool of the evening and through the night then stay at the well for the daylight hours to rehydrate the horse and finish the ride the next night. Any longer will not work without water

[D_BaldStockings]

“Every year The Criollo Breeders Association organizes an endurance ride or which tests the stamina of the purebred Criollo. The ride lasts covers 465 miles, 14 days & must be completed in less than seventy-five hours. Horses carry a minimum of 250 pounds & are allowed no food other than what is found along the trail. This trial is what determines quality breeding stock to keep the robustness of the breed.”

http://www.theequinest.com/breeds/argentine-criollo/

This is not a speed test, however.

[sbwinde]

This is a GREAT resource and extraordinary what these riders are going.

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8052783]
You may find some inspiration here

Long Riders A-Z
http://www.thelongridersguild.com/historical%20members/historical_a.htm[/QUOTE]

[Kyzteke]

The Akhal-Teke is an ancient breed (many historians even think they contributed to the formation of the Arab – and most definitely the thoroughbred) that was renown throughout the ancient world for it’s endurance.

There are anecdotal accounts of horses of this strain covering 75-100 miles carrying 2 riders & traveling at a steady canter over terrain much like you describe and doing it in 1 24 hr. period.

But in terms of actual documented rides, in 1935, a group of Turkmenistan calvary riders took their purebred Teke mounts on a ride from Ashgabet (capital of Turkmenistan) to Moscow. This is a distance of 2500 miles. They did it in 84 days, which works out to 30 miles a day EVERY DAY. There was no switching horse…each rider had only 1 horse. They also did not have any pack animals, so each horse/rider combo carried everything they needed.

Feed was “forage” found along the way. Ditto water.

BTW, this ride included passing through the Kara Kum desert, a distance of 235 miles. They did this in 3 days without water. That works out to almost 80 miles a day carrying (about) 150-180 lbs.

This ride is very well documented (many of the riders kept diaries), and there is even some film footage of when the riders/horses finally made it to Moscow.

Everyone of the horses completed the ride – it was this demonstration of incredible stamina & toughness which resulted in the Soviet government setting up a purebred breeding program of these amazing horses.

Both the riders & the horses were used for patrolling the borders of Turkmenistan (rugged, tough terrain), so both parties were not only very fit, but also very experienced in this sort of travel. But it sounds like your MC is similar in background & experience.

As far as believability goes, your readers who are modern AERC endurance riders may not believe a horse could travel 235 miles without water. Modern endurance riding is very regulated and (rightfully so) health & wellcare of the animal is paramount.

But if you look back at history you will see some pretty incredible feats of long distance riding. I can’t recall the actual miles/times, but I remember watching a documentary on Napoleon and his “elite” calvary made some truly amazing marches; from the little bit I know of military history, Napolean’s strength was his calvary – they were able to cover large expanses of ground, carrying all supplies (so they would not be dependent on supply trains) and still arrive ready to fight.