Anyone use this type of phantom? What are the pros and cons? After a couple days in a row of collecting, I’m feeling rather beat up and those all in one deals are looking better and better!
Maybe someone else will have a different opinion but I hate hate hate them - with a passion!
I had 3 stallions that I took to a facility that collected with the standard Missouri AV’s and they were prepped, jumped up, got collected lickety split quick and their ejaculate was always virtually gel free with good semen volume. They were very happy boys …
I then moved to a facility that had a Colorado and what a flipping disaster. Not one of the 3 would “use it” and 1-2 hours later, they’d be soaked and frustrated, if we got anything it was all gel or mostly gel, the ONLY way we got them to collect at all was to remove the Colorado AV and hold it and those suckers are H-E-A-V-Y as frigging sin and the stallions STILL werent 100% happy with the rigidity of them - they didnt move and feel like the real thing to them
NO way in Hell would I go to one of them. I’d get them collecting off the ground long before I’d switch to a built in Colorado
My 2 cents worth anyhow …
I would only use the contained one if it was custom made, with no gaps like Liz Hall’s. A stallion stuck in an AV would not be a good thing. :eek:
Some stallions also may refuse to collect with a stationary AV.
As for the type, the INRA (French) one is MUCH lighter than the other ones, but has the good parts of each. I would never use any other AV
While they sound like a great idea, in reality they are not so good.
[QUOTE=horsechick;5731165]
Anyone use this type of phantom? What are the pros and cons? After a couple days in a row of collecting, I’m feeling rather beat up and those all in one deals are looking better and better![/QUOTE]
While they work wonderfully well if you have a stallion that will use them, they do have some problems.
First, you must make sure that the model you are looking at purchasing has the AV well seated and absolutley NO gaps between the AV and the phantom that the stallion could inadvertently get his penis caught in.
Probably the biggest issue with them however, is only about 20% of stallions will “use” them. The problem is there is no way to encourage a stallion to move up on the mount and “commit”. When training a stallion, you can direct him into the AV and encourage him to move up the mount and “assume the position”. With the built in AV, you don’t have that option and have to hope that the stallion will automatically work the AV. It allows you absolutely NO flexibility or options with a stallion that is being a bit slow or recalcitrant about using the mount in the first place.
In all the breeding facilities we’ve been to, about 80% of the self-service breeding mounts we have seen have had the end hole “filled” in and the stallion is collected off the side. If you have a stallion that “will” work the mount, it can be a life saver. If you have one that won’t, however, it’s a huge unnecessary expense :(.
Hope that helps!
Darn! Ok, so TC, what is this AV you use? I am using the Colorado…it’s all he’s ever used so he seems to like it fine, but I have no basis of comparison. The problem is, I’m not-so-big (130 or so) and although pretty fit, those things are HEAVY!! And lately I’ve had to have my husband brace me from behind so me and the AV don’t get shoved backwards. It’s really not so fun. So something with great heat retention (we collect outside, and in Spring is still pretty darn cold) is a must, but lighter would be fabulous.
Thanks for everyone’s input-it’s much appreciated. And you just saved me a huge chunk of money! 
Well, no wonder!! When I took the CSU course they only let us use Colorados (naturally). That sucker weighed a TON.
You have to be Arnold S. to swing it around.
When it came time for me to purchase an AV I bought a Missouri. MUCH lighter. I’ve heard great things about the INDRA (I think I heard one vet call it a “French” or something), but never used one.
OK horsechick - I am now laughing so hard I am crying!!! :lol:
“So … HOW many people does it take to collect your stallion???” :eek: “TWO??! 1 to hold the AV and another big strong guy in behind to hold you up so you dont topple over from the weight of the AV??!” :lol:
Honestly - sorry - I am still giggling …
You poor thing. It doesnt have to be that hard nor do you need to take a body building course to get enough strength to HOLD the AV!
Look into getting a Missouri. Its probably about half the weight of the Colorado and VERY easy to use and you wont need hubby in behind to support you either! :lol: You will find that your guy will probably collect easier and better with less gel because of the flexibility and movement of the leather outer covering of the Missouri - I guess it just simulates a real live mare far better than a Colorado does
And as far as heat retention goes (remember - Im the poor shmuck that had to collect MY stallion in January - outside - this year and its bloody COLD up here!) they have all sorts of filled covers that you can buy for them and Kathy and a few others gave some great suggestions about the hand warmers to stick in there to keep the ejaculate toasty warm when it comes out …
Good luck!
I have that model and LOVE it
I too went to Colo St. to learn the repro routine and since I am ALONE when collecting, I bought the one with the AV inside. All the stallions I have collected have had no problem. I did ALWAYS stuff a towel around the AV opening due to the gap, that looked like a scary potential situation, so I closed it up with the towel wrapped and stuffed into the area…worked great. I always tied my tease mare in front of the phantom and poured “in heat” mare urine (easy to collect when you tease the stud, I froze it in individual plastic jars) at the very front of the phantom, all the stallions would mount it and move forward due to the mare and the urine smell. Worked like a dream for me. I only had one young stallion the had never bred a mare that would not use it and what he did not like was that the phantom would move a little when he mounted and he would get down. If you are alone, I recommend trying your stud on one to see if he likes it. It sure is easy when you have no help.
paintjumper - I have “0” help when collecting as well. I simply prep the AV and leave it beside me on a plastic stool while I lead my stallion across the aisle to the tease mare in her stall. We tease, I wash him, dry him off, pick up the AV, we go about 12-15 feet outside to where the phantom is located, he gets up, I put the AV on him, he is collected and we are done
The AV then goes back onto the stool inside, stallion goes outside, tease mare goes outside, I process the semen and we are done. The ONLY difference I make in the whole procedure is if it is cold outside - then the semen gets done first before I kick the 2 of them back outside
Works a charm and to be honest, even if someone was here and they ask if they can help, we have the entire procedure so down pat it would be more of a hindrance than a help I think
[QUOTE=horsechick;5731393]
Darn! Ok, so TC, what is this AV you use? I am using the Colorado…it’s all he’s ever used so he seems to like it fine, but I have no basis of comparison. The problem is, I’m not-so-big (130 or so) and although pretty fit, those things are HEAVY!! And lately I’ve had to have my husband brace me from behind so me and the AV don’t get shoved backwards. It’s really not so fun. So something with great heat retention (we collect outside, and in Spring is still pretty darn cold) is a must, but lighter would be fabulous.
Thanks for everyone’s input-it’s much appreciated. And you just saved me a huge chunk of money! :)[/QUOTE]
Pick up an INRA French AV available through IMV INternational - http://www.imv-technologies.com . It is the only place that sells them. They have all the advantages of the other two commonly used AV’s in this country - the Missouri and the Colorado and eliminates most of the disadvantages ;). They are rigid like the Colorado, so they the handler can help prevent the stallion from “hiking” up the mount which, with the Missouri, is more difficult to prevent. The rigidity also assists in getting the darn thing on the penis where with the Missouri, it often takes two hands to “direct”. With the rigid outer shell, it also holds heat a bit longer. It weighs about the same as the Missouri. It is shorter than the Colorado, so with most stallions, the glans of the penis clears the lumen of the AV so you don’t have to worry about the semen being temperature shocked by going over the hot liner of the AV. It has a rubber “hood” that offers the stimulation that the closed end of the Missouri also does. And the other big bonus? You can replace the rubber latex bladder should it tear or get a hole in it. With the Missouri, if you get a hole in the bladder that can be repaired, you are essentially purchasing an entire new AV. And, the big bonus is it weighs about the same as the Missouri. I used to only use the Colorado AV and by the end of breeding season, I could arm wrestle just about anyone. I was FIT!!! <lol>.
Paintjumper, I don’t think you are unusual in being alone collecting stallions. But, as you discovered with the one stallion, if you have one that will not use the mount, you’re dead in the water. There is one self service breeding mount sold by Reproduction Resources that is fairly safe, but we’ve seen some incredible wrecks with them. And, as noted in my first post, if you can’t get a stallion to move up on it, you’re done. No amount of coaxing, encouragement, or manipulating will get them on the darn thing.
And one last note. If you do indeed purchase a self-serve breeding mount and end up using the AV on the side, make ABSOLUTELY sure, you securely block the hole in the end of the breeding mount.
Good luck!
Hope the above helps!
That’s all I use here, and don’t mind it at all. But upper body wise, I have more of a swimmers build and very strong shoulders, so have never had a problem holding the Colorado. One stallion requires me to be holding onto the Colorado with just one hand while stimulating him with other, and it’s just never been a problem for me. That being said, I’ve never used any other AV, so I’m sure the others are a picnic. Our biggest reason for going with the Colorado is our phantom is approximately 450 feet from the lab, so I wanted to make sure that heat is being retained at it’s best in -20 C / -4 F or less.
We acquired one stallion who is very finicky to collect and were told he would only collect with the French INRA and nothing else. We had no problems switching him over to the Colorado.
As far as a stallion producing gel when using one AV or another…I think there is likely another factor at play. Kathy can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think gel varies greatly from stallion to stallion, not AV to AV, and stallions tend to produce more gel if the AV is really hot or the weather is really hot. Truecolours, I’m wondering if the second facility you used with the Colorado AV might have had the AV too hot for your boys, which may account for their frustration and high gel volume.
Anyways, long story short, I love my Colorados, but I do know most women tend to prefer using something much lighter. 
Thank you everyone! I think I will invest in an INRA model. For some reason, I don’t think the Colorado is exactly right anymore. He never used to thrust this hard, and lately I’ve noticed the volume is down and the gel fraction is up.
And Kathy, I might be able to take you at arm wrestling right about now! LOL.
Once again, thanks for the COTH wisdom
Daventry we posted at the same time…
so is heat a factor in gel production? Or could that be why he’s thrusting harder?
You’ll like the INRA AV. We started with a Colorado, and switched to that at Kathy’s recommendation. I have zero complaints.
My husband is the designated AV wrangler at our house, but I have collected alone, and had no problem with it. The problem I had was that when I went to wash him, he was SURE that I was supposed to be standing by his head and not back there. When I dropped the rope and let him graze while he got washed, we had no troubles. :lol:
We also went to the French AV based on the info on Kathy’s website. The stallions seem to really like it and it’s very easy to use. Kathy’s directions on her site will save you a TON of time putting it together with great suggestions for collection bottle/liner etc. Go there for sure it will save you lots of time…and swearing, lol! Gal that collects for me had a CO and Missouri…the liner on Missouri always seemed to be stuck together and sort of a pain…
We have an all-in-one and it works great for our stallion. No gaps - but I can definitely see where gaps would create a major issue. Good luck with the INRA - if we had to stop using the one we have now, I’d convince Steuart to look at that one.
Hopefully Kathy will answer…as she’s the expert. I’m still learning. 
