Avoidance/self soothing behavior during groundwork?

Same here. Break things down into litle steps. Create a lesson plan so you know what you want to do. Remember they have a 3-second attention span. If you don’t give them short pauses, however, they can get very confused and annoyed. If they are having problems, stop this step and go back to something they can do reasonably well and start over. Always stop in a good place. Think about what you think he is learning. I’ve been watching a couple of young kids doing “trot work.” The instructors are actually doing pony rides. The instructor has a longe whip to keep the horse moving. The horses are on a longe line while the rider bounces around on the saddle. Think about it.

I watched peerless rider/trainer Linda Parelli teach a woman’s horse to canter in the Colosseum at Equine Affaire. Actually the horse already knew how to canter. They all do. What Linda accomplished: Run one-and-a-half loops around a circle at the end of the longe line. Turn left when she yanks on the line. Head for the center of the circle (Linda) running or trotting - Horse decides. Halt somewhere. He was looking really good with his head way up in the air. Whites of his eyes stood out. I managed to watched 10 reps, then said bye to my friends and left.

I tell people I try not to exceed 15-30 seconds of formal training daily. Do everything the same way every time you do it. Love on them and say good boy/girl when they are doing what you like or want. Standing still in crossties, for example. Ignore everying else unless it could be dangerous like biting or kicking. .They will figure out what to do if you back off, calm down, and let them think. My horse figured out all sorts of things. I pulled out his 4-knot rope halter for hand grazing. I have nerve damage in my right arm. He knows that. I was fumbling around getting it over his head and knotted correctly. He didn’t like it. I walked in the stall one day and I wasn’t having a problem. Then I spotted his handsome head right smack where it needed to be. In front of me, shoulder level. He taught me a lot of things over the years. People said it was because we were together for 21 years. That’s not it. For 21 years I tried to remain calm and tell him he’s a good boy. Never yelled at him Ignore what you don’t want. Pay attention. You can learn things from them.

Scribbler hit the nail on the head. I was looking around for a new barn after 20 years because the BO wasn’t taking care of him. Not enough hay for starters. Looked like long-term effects of a stroke when she was 39. He was 27, I was 73. He was on pasture board and retiring as Alpha. He needed a lot of coaxing to turnout. One Thursday evening in November 2020 we were at the gate. It was dark. He stood there. A very clear voice inside me said “I don’t want to go out there anymore. Why are you making me do this?” Called our retired vet who gave me contact info for the perfect farm. We moved on Monday. I had to put him down in July but we had the best 18 months, all of it on the ground except the century ride. When you back off and stay calm, their personality, what they have inside, what makes them unique indviduals will emerge.

I am rereading Mark Raschid’s latest book, " For the Love of the Horse." I didn’t pay enough attention the first time. Somebody told me to do that. Who???

Zeke’s buddy Speckles, their last ride.

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I hate when I get meesages from horses I’m not in a position to help. It’s happened. I feel badly about it.

My mare is pretty happy most of the time and I’m happy to see her, which made me think for a long time I wasn’t picking up much. Now I’ve realized we actually are connecting a lot of the time and her mood influences me.

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Scribbler, Zeke locked himself in the car while his sister took lessons. He hated them, was afraid of them, and was profoundly shy. I met him hiding behind his mother. He might say a few words some day. He came with me to say hi to Speckles. That started it. Aunt Kathy grew up in a huge family show barn. She took care of Zeke when I wasn’t there. One day Zeke told me he was riding horses now and would I come to watch him. Kathy let them stand there and look at each other. I read an artcle about bonding. That’s what they did. He is a different kid. My horse literally helped two people achieve life-changing goals. The other one was a vet tech student who couldn’t do the horse skills - temp, shots, etc. She was petrified after a huge wreck at a therapy barn. I held her hand under his muzzle so he could sniff. An hour or so later she had his right front in her hand. She passed her horse skills a few weeks later and could get her license. Life changing the vet said.

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Olivia Towers is who I was thinking of earlier. It seems like she’s only been exploring the stuff for a little bit but her journey speaks to me from what I’ve seen. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjLr-ETIqrD/?igshid=YmRhOGE0MWQ=

Featherlite is interesting to follow as well.

I was watching a Warwick Schiller video and I do still learn some things from watching him. But his stuff is not enough for me and he gets too wordy for me. But there is lots of good there too.

Yvet Blokesch shared a post on Instagram: "Monday motivation 🤩 Prepare your horse before he needs it part 2💪

In approaching “scary objects” or things a horse finds difficult, it’s important to be able to help your horse so he knows he can...
I like this clip a lot.

OP
You may want to check out Tristan Tucker videos
He has a dressage background.

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Oh yes that’s an option I’ve been wondering about too.

I watched a few of his videos.
I confess I like Warwick Schiller more, but maybe it’s because WS comes from a western background but works with all kinds of horses.

Also, it’s interesting to watch WS older videos compared to his newer videos. His thinking and approach is quite different now.

Yeah honestly Warwick just talks a bit much for me. Old stuff or his new stuff. Still good stuff there. But it’s as much finding something that works for my brain as it does my horse.

I’ve seen little videos of Tristan. I’d need to watch more to know if he for sure would help.

The biggest challenge is me being aware of my body language while not being robotic or stiff. I’m good at reading the horses but my own self is the real challenge lol!

Tristan talks a lot too.
But then I think they all do!
But that’s why God created the fast forward button.

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Sometimes I think men trainers over explain things Lol.

You can do the 7 day free trial. You get access to all the stuff. I signed up a couple years ago, when my horse was going through the terrible 5’s. There’s a lot more content now, and they keep producing more, updating old stuff and adding case studies with different types of horses. I don’t find the community forum part of it terribly helpful but YMMV. Mine can also be mouthy during GW…he’s easily over-stimulated.

As for clicker training, the book The Click That Teaches is pretty straightforward and not woo (and pretty cheap on amazon!). I started it with my horse (same 5yo year…he was wild) but we didn’t go any farther than targeting. He loses interest quickly.

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Tik Maynard is another one worth checking out!

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I really want to get his book. I keep hearing great things about it!

Same here…it’s on my wish list!

The other book I have heard good things about you might want to check out is this one: https://www.amazon.ca/Horse-Brain-Human-Neuroscience-Horsemanship/dp/1570769486

Also on my wish list.

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That one definitely looks interesting too.