AWS ; American Warmblood Society

[Blume_Farm]

That is not exactly true. A good registry should do more than just record pedigree. They should offer inspections that educate breeders, they should offer mare and stallion performance testing and approvals, they should offer other educational opportunities and support for their members. Lastly, a good registry, through approvals of breeding stock (mare and stallions), should help direct the future of that breed into one that is constantly improving based on the demands/ needs of the sport. And that is where allowing a random assortment of all horses (drafts, QH, morgans, WB, TB, Arab, etc) into a single book has no direction. Of course if it is a gelding look at the horse you have in front of you. But if you are looking at potential breeding stock and see a nice draft/arab/QH cross you will have no idea what she will produce. Will she pass on a lot of draft properties and hence need a lighter stallion? Will she pass on a lot of arab blood and benefit from a heavier stallion?

I always use the example of Puggles as what happens with F1, F2, etc generations. When you cross a Pug+Beagle for first generation (F1) puppies you get a fairly homogenous population of traits…beagle ears, flatter face, curly tail, alway either fawn or black. Now take one of those F1 pugs and cross to another F1, a pure pug, or a pure beagle and that next generation is going to be all over the map. It takes generations to “homogenous” and mold a breed/population. IMHO that is where these other registries fail.

[QUOTE=vandenbrink;8199874]
A studbook is a place to register horses…a community of breeders, and an office to issue birth certificates for horses. Look at the horse in front of you. I’ve seen trappy gaited, ugly upside down built horses with Hanoverian brands and ain mare book papers.

Most studbooks have a “bottom” book where the ones of questionable pedigree end up, and some perceived “elite” studbooks take mares without requiring inspection.

I look at the pedigree and the quality…and want some form of proof of pedigree…that’s my requirement.

I’m not familiar with AWS, but expect they’ve hired qualified inspectors to evaluate the horses. If a foreign studbook is looking at the mare inspection certificate I expect the scores would be similar as those from the European studbooks and you can’t take those numbers as absolutes, but the strengths and weaknesses and ballparks scores would be similar.[/QUOTE]

[vandenbrink]

Yes, but I’m talking about a Warmblood studbook…not a crossbreeding regiment like Puggles where the phenotype and genotype is VERY different. Even crossing from 3 or 4 different warmblood studbooks the general type is the same and much of it comes from common lines. The true crossbreds with outside breeds are given certificates of pedigree in most books. Who am I to say that someone cannot crossbreed to an Arab…they may be able to sell that very well in the half Arab market. Yes, a studbook is there also to help educate and select breeding stock but ultimately the breeder needs to breed what they can sell. A german studbook is not going to teach a Hunter breeder what makes a good hunter broodmare…or foal. Many top hunters have gotten poor foals scores I’m sure. Sometimes a domestic studbook has a better handle on their local market. Yes, AWS has it’s share of problems…credibility being their biggest, but the idea is great.

[butiwantedapony]

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8196590]
The problem is that “anything with 4 legs” can be approved for breeding in the lowest books.

So, they justify this by saying that even though it is a grade mare of completely unknown type, it is only approved in the lowest book.

What they don’t say as easily is…

When the mare is bred to one of their approved stallions (who might also be in the lowest book), their resulting foal can move out of the low books. So, in 2 generations, you could have a horse that is 1/2 unknown type in a main book.[/QUOTE]

While it is sort-of true that anything with 4 legs can get a COP - a COP is not a registration and thus, not anything with 4 legs canbe registered. Should a horse with a COP have a goal that IS eligible for registration - ok, but it’s sire/dam was not - not everything with 4 legs is eligible.

[Bombproof]

The rules on the AWS website are sort of confusing and apparently I didn’t completely understand them. If a horse has to demonstrate performance at a pre-defined level to make it into the studbook, to me that provides some degree of legitimacy, but it appears that isn’t the case. I’d actually find some value in a registry that requires a horse run X fast or jump Y high or perform at Z level in USDF events. In such a case, the horse’s provenance is less important than the fact that it does the job at an acceptable level. I thought that was the goal of the AWS, but from what I’m reading I may have misunderstood.