B1, Vitamin E and Folate deficiency - Feed XL

[Pehsness]

I bit the bullet and bought a year of Feed XL. Currently don’t have test results for my hay so just using “good” and “average” as I play around.

On our current diet incorporating a senior feed, AND on a possible future diet moving to alfalfa/tim cubes and a ration balancer, she’s showing up as at 50% levels of needed Vitamin B1 and about 80% of Vitamin E.

The program does do a good job of explaining possible side effects of these deficiencies, but I was surpised to see the using a commercially prepared feed.

In your experience, what is the best way to supplement in those areas, is supplementation really necessary? Aged mare needs a bit of weight on (as always) but is otherwise in good health since coming home to live with me a year ago (self-congratulatory pat on back). Health has dramatically improved, as has horn quality etc.

Grass is now gone, of course, so I’ve put in the “pasture” as overgrazed and poor quality, so perhaps that’s where the deficiency comes from?

[Kolsch]

I haven’t used Feed XL in a while, but back when I did it helped to double check their data because sometimes they didn’t have complete information on a feed.

[Pehsness]

[QUOTE=Kolsch;8374381]
I haven’t used Feed XL in a while, but back when I did it helped to double check their data because sometimes they didn’t have complete information on a feed.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I’m starting to wonder if I should have just purchased a month rather than a whole year…

I will have to call the manufacturer of the feeds as they don’t list the B vitamins on their labels for some reason.

Google suggested brewers yeast as a good source of B1 but when I added even 1/2 tbsp to the diet it put the iron levels at 1300% or something equally ridiculous.

I’m probably overthinking, but just trying to tweak things to perfection, just because I can now that she’s home

[JB]

Not surprising on the E, since hay has little to none. And unless you’re feeding a lot of a commercial feed, the amount in there often isn’t enough. For example (and because I recently looked this up), TC Sr has 170IU/lb, so if you feed 5lb, that’s only 850IU, and that’s all or almost all of what he’d be eating. The average 1100lb horse in light work needs 800, and really, that’s just a number (from the NRC book) that makes for living decently, not necessarily optimal health.

This is the cheapest source of natural Vit E I know of
http://www.scahealth.com/ultracruz-equine-vitamin-e-horse-supplement.html

Most horses make enough thiamin to supplement what’s in the rest of the diet, to not be deficient. Wheat middlings are actually a good course of B1 I wouldn’t worry about that, but if you do, it’s really hard to impossible to OD on it, and a tub of B1 is really cheap, and if there are issues associated with a deficiency, you’d see improvement in a few weeks or by the end of the tub for sure.

[Pehsness]

ah, interesting JB. The E was the least of my concern because I seem to remember I could just buy the giant bottles of capsules and dump it in.

The B1 seemed harder because it throws all the other ratios out of whack when I add in the supplements (theoretically, on the program).

I’ll see if I can track down some wheat middlings. Do you think you can oversupplement on the E?

I’m keen to try the switch to the RB and cubes. I’m at the top end of the limits of the senior feed without much success in the weight gain department and I’m just not convinced that’s the best solution for her (or my wallet, if I add cubes on top of the senior feed). I have started netting the hay which has dramatically reduced waste and so overall consumption.

[JB]

No, don’t just add wheat middlings. Just add B1. It’s really cheap, and overall healthier.

Vit E is hard to OD on. If you were to feed even 2000IU (which is still really, really cheap with that link) then you’re not remotely going to OD. You wouldn’t OD on 5000IU. Upwards of that is generally monitored by a vet just to make sure.

How much Sr feed are you feeding and what’s the E level? If you’re at the upper limit it’s likely his E intake is fine. Which Sr feed?

[Pehsness]

The feed is called Equiline Sr. It’s Canadian. I’m feeding 6 lbs/day, max is 7 I think.

I think I’ve hit on the right diet with feed xl. Vit/Min supplement (Vita-Stress), tim/alf cubes (2 lbs), cracked oats (2 lbs), vit e supplement and of course salt. seems to be well balanced according to feed xl, assuming good/average hay. Will be interesting to get the hay tested. And 20 lbs +/- hay in nets/day. Everything split in to two feeds.

This is really just for my own sake/education - I’m not overly concerned with feeding the senior feed, but if I can make it better, it’s fun to try. The above is also much cheaper than the 5 bags of senior feed/month I’m currently going through, which is a bonus.

[JB]

2lb T&A cubes (we’ll assume 900 cal/lb) is 1800 cal. 2lb oats is about 3600 cal. That’s 5400 calories.

6lb of a Sr feed at minimally 1300cal/lb is 7,800 cal. And the Sr is probably more like 1400-1500 cal/lb, so more like 8400-9000 calories. You might need to feed more hay, or more hay cubes.

Dropping to a v/m supplement from 6lb of a Sr feed is going to dramatically reduce the lysine, copper, zinc, magnesium, and other nutrients. Some of that will be made up by the alf in the cubes, but not all.

[Pehsness]

it’s totally balanced according to feed xl… 114% of lysine, 193% calcium, 108% copper… and so on.

Honestly, the cubes were just a rough guesstimate as far as weight. I will weigh them out when I get home tonight to see what a scoop weighs. Hay I just stuff the nets full - it’s at minimum 20lbs per day, more likely 25/day, depending on if they eat it all or not. Sometimes the nets are empty by the next feed, sometimes there’s still hay left. I’ve noticed a reduction in the hay (slight) since adding the hay cubes in the past week. But so far I’ve only added a handful or two of cubes.

[dangerbunny]

Testing your hay isn’t overly expensive and then you can tweak their diet for real

[Pehsness]

[QUOTE=dangerbunny;8375600]
Testing your hay isn’t overly expensive and then you can tweak their diet for real ;)[/QUOTE]

I know! This is the first time I’ve really had the luxury of being able to do so, having been a lifelong boarder. It’s just one of those things I seem to procrastinate on… But I really should do it before I go getting a winters supply of the diet I’ve created, because it will drive me crazy if it’s not balanced now!

I can only imagine how OCD I can get about the pasture come spring…