B12 Orally vs Injection?

[carman_liz]

Ponyboy is still sick, on uniprim AND excede. Vet started him on daily B12 injections for this week. After this week is up, I am out of needles and I hate sticking the poor guy. He gets ulcergard squirted down his throat before breakfast in the AM, B12 injected during his lunch, IM in the neck, then red cell syringed down the hatch at night and the uniprim in his feed.

Can I just give the B12 orally from a syringe with no needle? Does it make a difference as far as absorbtion and how well it works? For that matter, if it works the same given orally…can I reuse the same needle (not one that has been used to inject ever!!) Like if I I get one or 2 brand new needles and use those needles to draw it up into the syringe if I am popping the needle off and giving it to him orally? Then rinse the needle and set it to dry like I would for one of my daughters normal medicine syringe doser type things?

I ask because the top of the B12 bottle has the self sealing rubber top that a needle has to be used to at least draw it up.

[JB]

You can definitely reuse needles to draw up oral liquid AS LONG AS the bottle is never ever again used for IM injections. At that point it’s not about the needles, it’s about the bottle being contaminated by using a non-sterile needle. But the stomach takes care of that minor contamination. I do that with banamine bottles, as I don’t do IV injections (and will never do IM banamine)

Is there a reason your vet wanted injections, as opposed to oral? injecting makes for more absorption. If there’s a reason your vet suspects an inability to properly absorb dietary B12? The make what they need in the hind gut, but sometimes need a boost for sure. Oral definitely works, I just don’t know of the injectable formulation works the same way an oral supplement does.

[sascha]

I can’t respond to efficacy of injectable over ingestible but have given a ton of B12 injections to cattle and cats over the years. Knock on wood, so far I’ve never had one complain - and they will definitely complain about some drugs!

So … if you are injecting in the neck and either you are the horse are squeamish about it, feed a treat, pop round to the heavily muscled hamstring area and do a quick drive by. Literally one quick but smooth motion to inject - practically pushing the plunger as you are inserting the needle followed by a quick but smooth withdrawal. “Oops, sorry about the bug bite, no idea where that fly came from in the middle of winter!” Return to pony’s head and insert another candy in the treat slot. So much easier and, I have found, less likely to cause a reaction in the horse/cow compared to neck injections.

If you are nervous about this technique practice ahead with a ball point pen to judge reaction.

I completely changed my needling technique years ago after doing rounds of a horse with Pen G and figuring out that I got the lowest flinch when it was hamstring day. (Obviously do NOT use the drive by technique for penicillin!) That morphed into routinely doing hamstring injections in cattle because I could move through a herd doling out bug bites (of vaccines or vitamins, not all drugs can/should be administered that quickly) without them thinking much of it.

Fast forward to my boss getting broken from doing routine repro injections on a difficult cow, "How. Do. You. Not. Get. Killed. By. Her?! " Hauled my ass in at the next scheduled injection and showed her the drive by method. “Dont you want her tied up short?” “Nope. I’m not going anywhere near her head or neck. I value my life, thank you.” Boom, bug bite injection with zero reaction from the notorious beast. Boss still didn’t believe it and thought it a one off. Showed her the next time again. Had her practise with a pen. Boom, a believer was born and I never had to do pm injections on that cow again. (My job was am repro and all vax, etc during my usual hours)

In my opinion, it’s worth a try and you may even find it ends up less stressful than oral meds. For my own horse, if I get the choice of nasty tasting drugs or injectable, I will choose injectable.

[carman_liz]

When she said she wanted to start him on b12 she said she would leave me a bottle and the needles with the syringes for the week. I am totally comfortable giving IM shots, I have done all his excede shots too. He handles it well, I can walk up to him, stick him and he just stands there. He is not a huge fan of all the oral stuff I have had to give him lately but I am sure that is because it all tastes gross lol.

I was just wondering about doing it orally because I feel bad sticking a needle in his neck everyday. That has got to hurt and I just figured a sore neck is worse than slight irritation over a mouth squirt real quick? She did say if he did not behave for the daily injections that I could just squirt it in his mouth if I needed to. I just did not know if it worked the same or had just as good absorbtion, plus not having to go buy more needles and syringes constantly would be nice.

The bottle would never get used for IM again, I am also a no go for IV shots, I worry too much that I could hit an artery. Banamine paste stays on hand here in the kitchen cabinet.

He is on it because he stopped eating after getting sick this time around. Barely touched any feed, timothy pellets, beet pulp, or hay. Will slightly pick at the grass and then just stand there. This is a pony whom I have not been able to really feel his ribs unless I push hard against him. Now I can feel them pretty easily, and I am starting to see them when he stands certain ways. He needed to lose the weight, but not thru this weird infection stuff he is going thru, poor lil dude.

Ty for the info, I was hoping you would chime in!!

[carman_liz]

Injectable is easy on him, I personally feel bad poking him daily for the foreseeable future. I also do not want to buy needles constantly lol.

He is a weird one, I have to pop soft peppermints in the side of his mouth to get him to eat them, sliced apples same or in his feed bucket. He hates watermelon, the rind or the pulp. I mean I am glad that he is not one of those in my pockets, where are the treats, bite your fingers or nippy type of pony, but sheesh he was never nippy and has never gotten in trouble while taking anything from my hand so idk why he is so cautious of taking the dang treats!!!

[JB]

@carman_liz

I personally feel bad poking him daily for the foreseeable future.

Is there really a reason for daily B12 injections for that long? It shouldn’t take that. It should be maybe some sort of “loading”, but then maybe weekly, or every other week.

[carman_liz]

Not sure to be honest, probably since he is still so sick? I mean he is still on two different antibiotics besides his supplements, and his bloodwork shows barely any improvement in his white blood cells, yet the nasal swab/manure/bloodwork samples that we sent to Cornell for “infection of unknown origin” PCR panel…came back negative for everything. Still wondering if it IS just a bad UTI, but then we have to wonder what is causing the reoccurrence so much lately. I just figure she wants to keep his energy and appetite up as much as possible until everything clears up and his bloodwork is better? She left to go out of town today, but with my mare, who was pony’s mom… we only injected once a week so I am going to try to ask her about tapering him down after this week when she is back in the clinic on Monday.

Then IF I can find a way to swing it, I need to take him down to UT if possible and just get insane amounts of internal scans done to see if we can figure out what the catalyst is for all of this besides his “eunuch-horn” issue and/or depression and boredom from being alone right now. I think him starting to feel crappy, then standing around and not getting any movement because he is alone right now and blah doesn’t help. Then his sheath starts to swell from not moving around, infection sets in worse… it’s a viscous circle, so the B12 at least is helping him have motivation to eat the small piles of hay I am strewing around the pasture and move around more?

Yes, I want to get him a new friend to run and buck around with, but after that issue with the mare I had for what, 1.5 months… and now he is getting sick… weird infection… weight loss… breathing harder… he HAD edema on his stomach area and right in front of his swollen sheath, both have gone down over the past week with the B12, but still… Until I know he has nothing contagious… and I am terrified that mare had a form of hepatitis that she may have passed onto him… I am not bringing another horse/pony/donkey/goat… nothing… around him until he is completely 100% cleared of anything he could give to another animal.

Sorry that was way over answering your question, I tend to over explain and share

[Alibhai_s_Alibar]

I have given bottled B12 to my horse orally and I think it was about 10cc per dose, but I don’t know how that compares to dosage/absorption of B12 administered IM. Best of luck with your guy!

[carman_liz]

What is “sub q” plz?

[carman_liz]

So not in the muscle? Just barely a prick under the skin? Oh lord knowing me I would think it was in and next thing I’d know his hair would be wet and smelling like the B12 lol. I can try it, but I am almost positive I’d mess it up.