Baby copperhead in barn

[LookmaNohands]

This was a little alarming. About a 10 inch baby copperhead slithered its way into my barn today. I have never seen one on my farm before let alone in the barn!

My barn help came and got me. She was trying to use the pitchfork to get it out. I scooped it up in a shovel and put it in the brush a distance from the barn. Maybe I should have killed it.

It seems a weird time for a baby to be around. It has been getting into the high 40s at night but it was at least 80 or so today. We wondered if there could be a nest in the sawdust pile or something.

Any advice?

[cssutton]

You should have killed it.

This is a dangerous time because the cool nights make the snakes aware that they need to find a place to hibernate. So they are on the move.

Copperheads are especially dangerous because they rarely scoot off to avoid you as for instance backsnakes do.

Because copperheads like brush piles, rock piles, under old barns or buildings, even mulch around flower beds and buildings, you see them less in mid summer than other snakes. In other words, they are under something a big part of the time.

They also like gardens. Be careful when picking something like green beans.

But this time of year they are on the move.

I never ever walk anywhere, even to my truck in the carport, without a flash light this time of the year.

And there is a story to go with that advice, but I will spare both of us that tonight.

By the way, just because the copperhead was small you had better not take him lightly. He carries enough poison to ruin your day…and several more after.

[LookmaNohands]

I had a feeling I should have killed it. Darn. My barn isn’t really all that warm though.

I have tons of critters around including a bobcat. I never worry about them but the copperhead scares me.

Thanks.

[2Jakes]

<flame suit on> Thank you for not killing it, I think you did the right thing. Venomous snakes do pose a potential threat however they are not innately inclined to do harm. I’m glad that you were able to safely (for you and the snake) move the little guy.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=2Jakes;7779920]
<flame suit on> Thank you for not killing it, I think you did the right thing. Venomous snakes do pose a potential threat however they are not innately inclined to do harm. I’m glad that you were able to safely (for you and the snake) move the little guy.[/QUOTE]

On the other hand, does it make any sense not to keep our surroundings somewhat safe from critters that are dangerous to us and our animals?

I killed a monster rattler in our hay barn a while back and a few days later, while picking up a flake I had ready to feed, several baby rattlers slithered off it, that were curled right on it.
You bet I would have killed them also if I could have.

We have bull snakes and whip snakes and those are welcome to stay and eat mice and rats.
Rattlers? Not smart to let them make themselves at home around here.
They have miles of caprock canyons to live in happily just a bit over.

We live in a wildlife preserve and take excellent care of all our wildlife, but in their place, that is the rest of the world and that is NOT the bit of space where we live.
Rehoming poisonous snakes doesn’t work, they will come back or not, some do, some don’t.
Why take those kinds of chances?
A barn where we work out of is NOT a place to let dangerous critters make themselves at home!

There is a place for everything, but in what universe does it make sense you have to live with critters that will, if unlucky and getting close to them, harm/kill you or your other animals you are supposed to keep safe?

Yes, around here we also use a flashlight when doing anything after dark and watch your step all the time.

[jawa]

When I was trail riding years ago the gelding I was on had been bitten by a copperhead. I never felt a misstep, or a sidestep, but his leg was terribly swollen at the end of the ride and there were two pin pick bloody spots of his fetlock.

Vet was called, a lovely old character from Madison, VA. He came out and gave a few meds to help with the swelling and told a story of another snake incidence.

The family was getting ready to head into town when they noticed a huge ruckus going on in the barn. They went to check it out. Apparently their stallion had become curious about a copperhead in his stall. It bit him several times on the nose. Which then began to swell. Luckily they were there and able to get the vet out before the swelling became too bad.

So from that perspective…I would have killed it.

[cssutton]

My parents built a house in 1938 in a nice residential neighborhood.

That area had more copperheads in it than any place I have ever seen.

Years later, I became convinced that was because there were old gold mines under the entire area, which had been capped but probably were accessible to snakes for hibernation.

We had horses, of course, and in those days one did things as economically as possible so about 5 or six steel drums served as our grain bins for storage.

One morning before school, I was in the barn feeding. I started to scoop grain out of the barrel. Early morning, just the amount of light that came in the door.

I leaned over the barrel to reach down for the grain and something made me back off and turn on the lights…and there was a nice copperhead exactly where I was about to put my hand.

It can happen to you any time of day or night.

Many years later, about 60 years, on my own farm miles from there, I made my regular evening trip to the kennel to refill water buckets and check on everyone.

Just before dark. Light was pretty dim.

I walked from the truck to the kennel and was within a few feet of it when I decided to go back to the truck and get my flashlight.

There are lights in and around the kennel, but also areas not well lit.

Anyway, when I got back to the kennel, there was this HUGE copperhead stretched out on a step. I stand beside that step to turn on the kennel lights.

Had I not gone back for the flashlight, that snake would have hit me just about halfway up my calf.

Anyone who allows poisonous snakes in or near their barn will get what they deserve.

[ayrabz]

Jeeze. really? don’t kill the venomous snake who will try to get back in the barn?

Try to never kill any living creature? sure. Wanna trap it and drive it to the nearest National forest? Ok…otherwise? lets be sensible.

[ReSomething]

We have small animals and if a snake goes after them, gets in the cages, we have to kill it. Even the good black snakes. I HATE doing that and I’d rather reconfigure the cages but that costs money we don’t have. Relocate far away might work, but the poisonous ones need to be far away from us.

[Texarkana]

How did you identify it as a “baby copperhead”? If it was by color and pattern alone, I would bet money that it wasn’t a copperhead.

Juvenile copperheads often appear near-solid in color with a very faint pattern. They are generally dark gray or brown with a trademark yellow tail. Their “copper” color and distinctive hourglass pattern don’t develop until they are older. Although, they do give birth this time of year, unlike most other snakes.

Juvenile rat snakes, on the other hand, are vividly patterned and can be all colors. Their coloring does the opposite-- it fades to black with maturity. They are non-venomous and great to have around the barn, if you don’t mind the occasional “shock” factor!

Copperheads are pretty reclusive. I imagine if it is truly a copperhead, one human interaction would be enough to convince it to mosey off to somewhere else!

[Bluey]

When rehoming any wild critter, you are putting that critter at risk in a country it is not familiar with and will have to compete with others to make it’s living that are already living there.

If it is a prey animal, something will be more apt to eat it there than where it knew the country and where to run to to stay safe.

If it is a predator, you put all prey at risk where you put it, plus both your newly released predator and others already in that area, that will compete and fight for territory and prey.

Just think, one life we don’t take, that one unwanted and dangerous animal you are not killing, but taking away from your area to keep you and yours safe, is now becoming a problem for itself and those where you release it.

Catch and release somewhere else in many places is illegal, just because of that.

We need to think past how sad it is to kill anything, to what the repercussions may be if you don’t kill whatever is a real threat to you and your family and those you are supposed to keep as safe as is reasonable.
Poisonous snakes are some of those.

There is this centuries old story of a man walking down the road between towns.
The weather had changed abruptly and caught this viper out on the road and it was too cold to move, easy prey for the first hungry critter that came along.

The man felt sorry for the viper, picked it up and put it in his shirt to warm it up and kept on walking.
The viper warmed up and started moving and, as the man reached to put it down, it bit him.

As he was dying from the poison, he asked the viper, “why did you bite me, I saved your life!”
The viper answered, "you knew I was a viper when you picked me up … "

Reality is what it is.
No matter how we feel about it and may intervene, that is not going to change what it is.
It is still going to be what it is.

[LookmaNohands]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;7780069]
How did you identify it as a “baby copperhead”? If it was by color and pattern alone, I would bet money that it wasn’t a copperhead.

Juvenile copperheads often appear near-solid in color with a very faint pattern. They are generally dark gray or brown with a trademark yellow tail. Their “copper” color and distinctive hourglass pattern don’t develop until they are older. Although, they do give birth this time of year, unlike most other snakes.

Juvenile rat snakes, on the other hand, are vividly patterned and can be all colors. Their coloring does the opposite-- it fades to black with maturity. They are non-venomous and great to have around the barn, if you don’t mind the occasional “shock” factor!

Copperheads are pretty reclusive. I imagine if it is truly a copperhead, one human interaction would be enough to convince it to mosey off to somewhere else![/QUOTE]

It had a very faint pattern to it and I could tell by the triangular shaped head. My barn help identified it immediately and apparently has more experience with them than I do.

This is the first live one I have ever seen in 24 years of living here in VA. The only other one I saw was dead and placed in a middle of a riding/hiking trail I think just to warn people that they were around.

I hope it does not come back and I will be very careful!

[cssutton]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;7780069]
How did you identify it as a “baby copperhead”? If it was by color and pattern alone, I would bet money that it wasn’t a copperhead.

Juvenile copperheads often appear near-solid in color with a very faint pattern. They are generally dark gray or brown with a trademark yellow tail. Their “copper” color and distinctive hourglass pattern don’t develop until they are older. Although, they do give birth this time of year, unlike most other snakes.

Juvenile rat snakes, on the other hand, are vividly patterned and can be all colors. Their coloring does the opposite-- it fades to black with maturity. They are non-venomous and great to have around the barn, if you don’t mind the occasional “shock” factor!

Copperheads are pretty reclusive. I imagine if it is truly a copperhead, one human interaction would be enough to convince it to mosey off to somewhere else![/QUOTE]

Copperheads a re pit vipers.

So they have the small pit or hole between the eye and the nostril.

Before you get that close, you can see the extreme triangular shape of the head.

The rear of the head is much wider than what in anything else we would describe as the neck.

The pit is the clincher, but getting close enough to see the pit does have its hazards.

http://reptileknowledge.com/squamata/copperhead.php

Note the last photo. Shows the triangular head.

[PeteyPie]

Am I the only one who is reminded of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAjo3xwr9sk

[ayrabz]

Baby hognose are very triangular headed and can in coloring and pattern resemble the patterned vipers too…Knowing your snakes is great…but many at the tiny age? are not something you want to get close enough to ‘investigate’ and ‘be sure’

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;7780214]
Am I the only one who is reminded of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAjo3xwr9sk[/QUOTE]

:lol:
I thought of that song too!
But, Credit where Credit is due: Oscar Brown Jr wrote that song :yes:

[Guilherme]

The Hognosed Snake…Or How I Made a Nun Scream

In the 7th grade my best friend and I were interested in Herpetology (he later became a professional Herpetologist). We periodically bought specimens, as you could in those days without much difficulty. Our parents absolutely forbade venomous creatures. But they said OK to a Hognosed snake.

We got the snake at it was pretty cool. So we asked if we could bring it to school for a science lesson (mostly an excuse for the kind of “show and tell” that 7th grade boys like to do). The Sister said “OK” with some restrictions which we could do.

My friend live less than two blocks from school so on the appointed day we went and had lunch at his house, got the snake, and headed back to school. It was in a cloth bag, inside a cardboard box (per our instructions on transport, storage, and handling).

We got into the yard about 10 min. before classes started. My friend took the cloth bag out of the box and was holding it a few feet from me when Sister came up, started to open the box, and asked, “Is the snake in here?” Before I could answer my friend stepped up, held up the bag, and said, “No, Sister it’s right HERE!”

She let out a startled “yelp” and teleported about three feet backwards. Now this nun was one of the more “rigid” personalities in the school (and was no stranger to imposing corporal punishment where indicated). She quickly regained her composure, said nothing about her “start,” and just quietly advised us to put the snake back in the box and get ready for the bell. Shen then went into the building.

About this this time my friend and I figured we were going to be, if not crucified, at least hanged, drawn, and quartered. But when we got into class she said nothing, allowed us to put on our demo and lesson, and then put the snake up in its box and bag until we went home. We never heard another word said about it.

I guess that had to be one of my proudest grade school moments, 'cause not even the really tough guys in our class ever got that Sister to scream.

G.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;7780442]
:lol:
I thought of that song too!
But, Credit where Credit is due: Oscar Brown Jr wrote that song :yes:[/QUOTE]

Good to know, but Johnny Rivers’ version will always be my favorite. Love his music.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=ayrabz;7780356]
Baby hognose are very triangular headed and can in coloring and pattern resemble the patterned vipers too…Knowing your snakes is great…but many at the tiny age? are not something you want to get close enough to ‘investigate’ and ‘be sure’[/QUOTE]

I was going to say the same thing. If I only had a dollar for every time someone tagged me in a Facebook post with a picture of a poor, dead hognose, saying they killed that “copperhead”!

Head shape is not always the best identifier alone. Even my adorable, completely harmless pet corn snake will flatten his head so it appears triangular when he is threatened, like when I run the vacuum cleaner. He goes all cobra-like and it is hilarious!

If you have a dead snake, you can examine the vertical pupils, the pits, and the anal plate. But if you’re dealing with a live snake, body shape is usually the best identifier. Copperheads are generally BIG bodied and stout, as opposed to the non-venomous colubrid species who are long and lanky.

In my experience, with young copperheads, even though they haven’t developed the wide girth yet, they usually have disproportionately large heads for their size. And that yellow tail, which is the major giveaway.

I don’t say all this because I necessarily doubt the OP and her staff, but rather to reassure people so they don’t panic. Copperheads like dense forests. They tend to stay away from human activity, unlike harmless colubrids who will live alongside humans quite tolerantly!

[FalseImpression]

so glad I live in Canada and never have to worry where I step in the dark…