Badminton 2017 Cross-country

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@kmwines

The Brazilian and Japanese horse’s looked super fit. Not sure if the Japanese guy trains in Japan but the different environments didn’t impact their horses that much.

he does not. He trains in the U.K.

[WNT]

Tim Price has to feel a lot better than last Saturday!

[JP60]

@Renn/aissance

Are there peculiarities of terrain or environmental conditions in Europe that cannot be adequately replicated with the available land in the US? I’m thinking of Jung’s comment last week about the heat and humidity in Kentucky being a challenge that perhaps he does not face in his training environment at home, and my own experience running (human) cross-country in humid Baltimore versus Dallas where the air felt thin. So something in our conditions doesn’t translate that needs to be better accounted for. Again asking out of inexperience as I’m not an eventer myself- taking it for granted that the top level riders in this country have half a clue about fitting up a horse for the available conditions, it looks like fitness for Europe translates better to fitness for North America than vice versa.

I’ll play the harsh card and say that the model for being a professional in this country (US) does not allow the rider the ability to properly condition their horsesbeyond a “just enough” for the short format. Watching Rolex there were a number of horse that were tired and I doubt they would have even made it to the end on Badminton.

BEtween training horses, people, as well as clinics all to make a living, there is only so much working students can do in working a horse at 4* level. As Denny and Kim has pointed out, horses in the long format rode for over an hour and still did 9K for 13 minutes. They also didn’t have to juggle as much. We need to get fit again to compete internationally.

[kmwines]

@bornfreenowexpensive

Given the number of horse falls. Slips on turns. And on a horse who can fall down…I thought it was extremely smart riding by Lauren.

I also believe there were shipping issues for her getting over and heard something about them missing a week prep.

There just seemed to be small moments where she settled and could have just upped it slightly. Like coming out of the water after taking the long route still in a soft canter with no sense of moving up into her gallop. And maybe she was just that not ready to even get close to time. I think she was very smart and it was a gorgeous ride but seems like such a waste of a great dressage score.

[Renn_aissance]

@JP60

I’ll play the harsh card and say that the model for being a professional in this country (US) does not allow the rider the ability to properly condition their horsesbeyond a “just enough” for the short format. Watching Rolex there were a number of horse that were tired and I doubt they would have even made it to the end on Badminton.

That also makes sense- aiming for “fit enough” versus aiming for “fit with a reserve.” I have to speculate if the influence of H/J riding and the Thoroughbred horse might be factoring into this too. I remember being very careful not to get my Thoroughbred horse “too fit” as I was ramping him up to foxhunt- I’d have to take him out back for 30 minutes of trot sets before he could be civil versus “extravagant” for a flat lesson. It was really tempting to have him just “fit enough.” Again, I come from a different discipline and I might not know what I’m talking about as I think out loud.

Now I’m thinking about what it would take to condition a horse to deeper footing without having more cuppy ground on the premises and how to replicate those different conditions. Go on winter vacation to Florida and do trot sets on the beach? (I’m kidding, but maybe not by much…)

[three_dayer]

I believe that the Europeans still treat these events as a long format. They prep just like you would for all 4 parts of a true three day. From what I have watched at badminton in years past, I see a lot of people doing long trots and sprint gallops just like roads and tracks for warm up. They only jump a few jumps before they go out on cross country. I know that US riders jump and jump before they go. I dont know if the US riders do enough long and slow work. It would be interesting to see the conditioning schedules. I have noticed at both Rolex and badminton that a lot of US riders and horses look very tired.

[Doodlebug1]

The footing at Badminton this year is not at all deep - we’ve actually had very little rain this spring - I walked the course yesterday and it was firm, despite the fact they have been watering the course. That is what the commentators are talking about, that short grass and artificially watered ground is perhaps making it slipperier than riders are anticipating - they are studding for the hard ground and not for the surface slip caused by the (necessary) watering.

[riderboy]

It seems too, and perhaps this has already been said, that the Europeans don’t go to Florida and Aiken for the winter to train in good weather and great footing. Do they train and condition in the slop weather of Europe?

[kmwines]

Go Andrew Nicholson!

[Larbear]

Pretty exciting for Rioghan Rua and Cathal Daniels, poor guy had such a hard time in dressage and did great x-country!

[JenJ]

yesterday after dressage, we had the top 7 spots held by riders from 7 different nations.
Today after XC, the top 9 places are held by riders from only 3 nations, GER, NZ, GBR

what a shake up

[Doodlebug1]

@riderboy

It seems too, and perhaps this has already been said, that the Europeans don’t go to Florida and Aiken for the winter to train in good weather and great footing. Do they train and condition in the slop weather of Europe?

yep! I got absolutely flamed for saying that a year or so ago. But yes. There is an eventing circuit in early spring in Portugal but not that many people go - and all the spring warm up events for the big competitions like Badminton are in the UK

[JP60]

My final thoughts for I have horses that have been patient in their stalls.

This was an ugly course and I hope Eric learns from it and changes. It punished horses both physically and mentally even if they finished. It should not be praised for Derek changed the lineup by using time and smart placement of fences, not by rider and horse falls.

There was some amazing riding, but about the only good US run was LK and she had to ease up to save her horse. If we learn anything it is that if you do not have a fit horse, don’t keep going and we really need to figure out how to get fit horses. IT is sad to see time and time again horses finish tired. I think we got good riders, we just have not focused on the basics anymore.

I have a lesson tomorrow so I can’t see the end so I I would love to MJ go for another gland slam, but will be cheering for IK.

[Jealoushe]

@riderboy

It seems too, and perhaps this has already been said, that the Europeans don’t go to Florida and Aiken for the winter to train in good weather and great footing. Do they train and condition in the slop weather of Europe?

MJ posted a week before Rolex he was doing his final gallops in the muddy snow at home. He doesn’t event all winter. Food for thought.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@riderboy

It seems too, and perhaps this has already been said, that the Europeans don’t go to Florida and Aiken for the winter to train in good weather and great footing. Do they train and condition in the slop weather of Europe?

Some go to Spain for the winter. Others train their horses at home. Winter in the U.K. Is NOT like it is for a lot of the US. Their ground rarely is as frozen as we get. I didn’t see as much of a difference in their conditioning programs. A lot use a walker but so do riders in the States. And most riders condition quite a bit similar to what they do for the long format days. It is not an inability to condition that is the issue. It is a skill of riding xc that is causing the issues.

[Jealoushe]

@NCRider

Again, it’s very easy to pull up as Blyth freaking Tait when you have a 20 already. Elisa’s decisions should be judged on their own, no need to compare to completely different situation in an attempt to add more fuel to the crucifixion fire.
It’s a lesson learned. She’ll likely get a card. No need to internet SHAME!!! her in order to make yourself feel superior.

They need to be quicker to pull people up because for riders whose goal is to finish (and riders in team situations), it’s hard to pull up before the first refusal/runout/trouble.

I will compare to Blyth Tait because he is a class horseman. I will internet shame (as you call it) anyone who abuses a horse and almost kills it or themselves out of pure selfish reasons.

First 4* or 40th NO EXCUSE at this level. Ignorance or inexperience is not an excuse. Your “one shot” is no excuse. The horse was BARELY cantering for over two minutes. In case you are unaware my biggest concern for Eventing is the safety and that is always my stance on this board.

What she did was stupid and selfish and there is no pats on he back deserving for this. She got very very lucky and being raked over the coals on COTH is a lot better for her than being carted off in a stretcher.

[NCRider]

@Jealoushe

I will compare to Blyth Tait because he is a class horseman. I will internet shame (as you call it) anyone who abuses a horse and almost kills it or themselves out of pure selfish reasons.

First 4* or 40th NO EXCUSE at this level. Ignorance or inexperience is not an excuse. Your “one shot” is no excuse. The horse was BARELY cantering for over two minutes. In case you are unaware my biggest concern for Eventing is the safety and that is always my stance on this board.

What she did was stupid and selfish and there is no pats on he back deserving for this. She got very very lucky and being raked over the coals on COTH is a lot better for her than being carted off in a stretcher.

You sound like you’d be happier if she had been carted off on a stretcher. No one is patting her on the back. Everyone agrees she should have pulled up, exercised poor judgement for not pulling up and will likely see consequences from the FEI for not having done so.
What I don’t agree with is making black and white statements about what this irrefutably says about her overall as a person or a horse person. It doesn’t make her a HORSE ABUSER!!! There’s no need to tar and feather and get out the pitch forks.

And if you don’t think almost every single successful horse persons has at least one or too moments whether they exercised really bad judgment/did not put the horse first, then you are really naive.

[Rallycairn]

Any updates on the rider who was airlifted out to the hospital?

[Jealoushe]

@bornfreenowexpensive

Some go to Spain for the winter. Others train their horses at home. Winter in the U.K. Is NOT like it is for a lot of the US. Their ground rarely is as frozen as we get. I didn’t see as much of a difference in their conditioning programs. A lot use a walker but so do riders in the States. And most riders condition quite a bit similar to what they do for the long format days. It is not an inability to condition that is the issue. It is a skill of riding xc that is causing the issues.

I actually found the conditioning of horses in the UK very very different from the US and Canada when I lived there. We hacked out almost 4 days a week on conditioning rides and used long sloping hills. One dressage and jump school a week with maybe 20 minutes dressage before the hacking out every day. We galloped on the beach once a week too. The programs I saw from ULRs here was nothing at all like that. Stark difference.

[Jealoushe]

@NCRider

You sound like you’d be happier if she had been carted off on a stretcher. No one is patting her on the back. Everyone agrees she should have pulled up, exercised poor judgement for not pulling up and will likely see consequences from the FEI for not having done so.
What I don’t agree with is making black and white statements about what this irrefutably says about her overall as a person or a horse person. It doesn’t make her a HORSE ABUSER!!! There’s no need to tar and feather and get out the pitch forks.

And if you don’t think almost every single successful horse persons has at least one or too moments whether they exercised really bad judgment/did not put the horse first, then you are really naive.

I can’t even respond to that first comment because it’s ridiculous. You obviously have some sort of hang up about people being criticized for their actions but you are going so over board in your counter attack it’s unecessary. It’s considered abuse by the FEI to push a tired horse. I saw an exhausted horse pressed for two minutes straight for what? She’s lucky no one was hurt. She didn’t even turn to her horse after. In my opinion that is terrible horsemanship. You don’t have to agree. Trying to stop people from discussing and learning from it will get you no where.