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Badminton 2017 Cross-country

Here we go again … :winkgrin:

Other Badminton threads will have a broader view, will follow the competition through the phases … so this one can just be stuck way down in the rabbit hole of cross-country. Never too early to start a nerd geek obsession thread … :yes:

Badminton livestream and radio … it is only mentioning dressage at this point, XC as well I hope?
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/badminton-live/

Badminton illustrated course walk, as it were …
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/20…ountry-course/

Does anyone have a link to the XC start times? Haven’t located it with the other start times …
https://www.badminton-horse.co.uk/index.php/dressage-results-2017/

Big galloping course is the early feedback. “Swashbuckling”, officially. :slight_smile:

#5 Savills Staircase
As illustrated, and as in early photos, this jump is NOT OK. I hope the course decorators will fill in the airy rails at the top of the double-down. I wish I had more time to look up the old data on the badness this type of combination. Quite a few years ago at Rolex KY, this is the configuration that brought down three (3) pairs, including Oliver Townend who was attempting to complete the Rolex Grand Slam. The horses didn’t just fall, the rolled down the steps. Rotational, anyone?

Data compiled over the years showed that open rails at the top of a marked decrease in elevation led to horses catching their feet over the top rails. The speculation was that horses were looking through the rails at the drop and not reading the height they had to clear over the rails. I am shocked at such a disregard for this data.

#12 KBIS Bridge
Never rides well for many pairs. Then someone comes along and nails it, proving it can be done. Intended to weed out all but the superstars of XC?

Also I noticed that Lauren Kieffer and Landmark’s Monte Carlo look as if they will be the first out of the start box … I gotta figure out how to watch live and online …

I went through the coursewalk and agree with you so very strongly – I do NOT NOT NOT like the Savill’s Staircase at all, particularly for the open rail you are pointing out.

And I have never liked those angled bridges over ditches, and this one has such a narrow “sweet spot” (of course, because after all, this is Badminton) to get a decent shot over the bridge and ditch – but many teams fly right over with the needed accuracy.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/features/badminton-cross-country-course-2017-619284?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

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I wouldn’t want to jump that course without a horse with a very very good front end. Having spent a long time jumping big jumps on a horse with a very poor front end this course doesn’t look like something I want to jump.

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I think the stair case is just a test of obedience, it should ride well because the stairs will back a horse off and already make them more careful over the rails. That being said I hate any upright rails on XC.

The bridges always jump well. There was one at Rolex too and it seemed an easy fence.

In spite of the 3 rotationals when it was used on Rolex (have to find which year), there were any number of pairs who rode it very neatly. Some who did it perfectly were not famous, but the general run of mid-pack finishers, so it was within the scope of a qualified Rolex horse…

But I think the percentage possibility of a serious problem, even a life-threatening one to horse or rider, is too high compared with other XC obstacles. A rider or horse mistake shouldn’t have such a high possibility of serious consequences. It’s a risk sport, but the point of collecting the data is to minimize the higher risk, and this one is higher risk of serious consequences.

If there could be Equistats on obstacles … hopefully that’s coming.

The bridges always jump well. There was one at Rolex too and it seemed an easy fence.

The placement of the bridges at Badminton have jumped terribly, year after year. Mountains of penalties, and time burn as well, looking for a way to get through that obstacle.

Boyd’s Badminton dream ended at the bridges.

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Maybe the bridge at Rolex was smaller this year. It didn’t look too imposing. Is the bridge at Badders part of the vicarige vee??

The Vicarage Vee is not on the course this year. That is where Boyd and lots of others fell last year. it wasn’t really a bridge but it was angled over a ditch and required accuracy and boldness. The bridges look easier.

I know it isn’t supposed to be a hard jump but I hope everyone built a practice Bullfinch at home. Holy crap but that looks big especially jumping out of the water.

The Staircase rail at the top is angled out and isn’t very big. Looks like it would ride pretty well and I expect problems just at the corner at the end, some horses may lose focus and glance off. I much more dislike the big open corners at Shogun Hollow. They are a related accuracy test with the big open corners and that makes me much more nervous.

Fences 3 and 4 don’t seem to have good groundlines on the online walkthrough. Hopefully they will frontfill them a bit. I hate tables with recessed groundlines.

Everything is really BIG! Lots of accuracy and courage needed. But it is Badminton.

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I think we may be forgetting how Badminton used to have the exact same idea of a fence but with 3 drops.

https://www.facebook.com/BadmintonHorseTrials/videos/10154527334373730/

Watch for Eric Winter’s clip starting at 51 seconds. He’s the 3rd rider featured.

Emily

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Seat of the pants riding seems to have been rewarded more in the past from that link. I loved the comments on Mike Tucker in the water.

Those steps are HUGE. Much more difficult than anything today.

Horses who are used to today are really going to be surprised by the Bullfinch and try and drift over to the clipped part in their approach.

Emily, that and many more were posted on EN today, and some of the clips were from the 50s. One year, it looked like there were multiple coffins, but most of the jumps looked somewhat small. The footing was horrible. of course it was mentioned several times that the distances were 17 miles, and one was about 15. It seems the main focus of the clips was to show the Queen’s keen interest in horse sport.

Seeing it again, I remember a triple staircase at the World championships at Luhmulen in 1982. I do not remember a vertical at the top however.

There used to be a triple-down to water at Badminton, quite some time ago, one of my favorites to watch on video - but it did not have the jump at the top. It was the bank up out of the water, after a few strides, with one stride to a coop-type obstacle that used to get them. The staircase down didn’t seem to be a problem as long as momentum was maintained. The real issue seemed to be to keep the horses from drifting to the right out into the lake, thus losing the approach to the bank out.

Different problem from the #5 this year.

I wonder what Pippa Funnel would say about the two obstacles … she’s ridden everything out there!

I can’t wait to see how the course rides. Badminton seems to always have some crazy questions, IMO. I am concerned about Savills Staircase… I worry that when the horses see the drop behind it, it will take their focus away from the vertical in front of them causing them to drop their front end just before it. I’m guessing/hoping that everyone riding at this level has experience with these questions so crossing fingers it won’t be an issue.

I can’t wait to see how the Bullfinch rides…

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It might be interesting to read what is in the FEI course designer guidlines and then compare to what we see today

The aim of the CD is to set the appropriate test for each level but also produce a good ‘picture’. Therefore the best horses and riders should be able to make the course look easy.

It is the Course Designer’s responsibility to design courses that help to produce better horses and riders.

The CD should not build to “test the best” but rather be thinking about a fair course for the level so all have the opportunity to complete without taking a multitude of Black Flag options.

As a general philosophy the numbers of finishers is more important than the number of clear rounds.

. The belief is that the levels should be the same around the world, i.e. a 2 star in the UK or Brazil should be the same degree of difficulty as a 2 star in Australia or Russia.

Of course “guidelines” puts almost all of this into the relative state. Is a double bank down after a open log entry testing the best and God Help the less able? The Vicarage V was replaced by something about as bad so was there a consideration of the number of finishers taken?

Comparing the two courses, Rolex to this one, it shows a very skilled CD who I do think embraces the essence of these guidelines while our Badminton CD, first out on a 4* course is out to try and make a mark. I’m no a fan of this course, but I’ll watch. With Rolex, it was a heart pounding but enjoyable viewing. With this? I hope no one gets seriously hurt,

Weather wise it looks good

Cloudy. A few sprinkles possible. High 59F. Winds ENE at 10 to 20 mph.

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I don’t think the FEI was talking about 4* courses.

And didn’t David O’Connor just look oh-so-cavalier and super cool and unconcerned, chawing and chomping on his gum and being so breezy about how many (few) times he’s walked the course and so on. Is he trying to seem warm and approachable maybe? Because he seems inappropriately cavalier and no-big-deal about the job at hand, at least to me.

Doesn’t give the impression he’s studied the course much, not knowing the name of the first water complex and all. But making sure we hear before anyone has set out on the course that he thinks the rider is going to be relatively unable to have a plan and just have to be seat-of-the-pants – wonder if MJ will use that approach, or at least be willing to assume on the front end that a plan is relatively unhelpful for this course?

Maybe I’m too picky but O’Connor just really seemed unprofessional and kind of unconcerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3B-ges55A

I actually HOPE my impression is unique and that everyone else thinks he seems prepared, ready to give valuable help to our riders, and professional in demeanor. I’m smh.

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The Stairs are not a straight up vertical at the top, from the pics on the Badminton course walk. They have an angle to them… the bottom rail is at least half a foot in front, conservatively. That makes it so much easier than a vertical face!!!

let’s see Saturday if that or the corner at D catches more people out…willing to place a COTH bet on the outcomes, where I will admit I am not a good reader of courses if I am wrong! Lol.

also, i am sure everyone has a plan but successful riders will modify the plan based on how they are going and how they jump in to combinations. That was obvious at Rolex and I think will also occur here. What is the saying about plans? The Plan is not important but planning is everything? There are lots and lots of big fences that require accuracy but aren’t really on related distances. And all the combos require accuracy. I don’t see much in the way of letups. I am glad the Hunstman’s Close is a bit smaller and less technical, I felt that was a confidence robber the last couple of years.

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Basically, I don’t care much how well (or badly) he interviews in front of the camera. He is there to RIDE. That being said, I feel that he gave a very interesting interview. I did NOT think he came off as cavalier. Rather he seemed to have a lot of respect that the fences were both big and technical; that exact striding and placement could make the difference. He also let us see into HIS style of riding such fences – that you need to wait and see what horse you have under you at the moment, and that trying to stick to a strict plan could get you into trouble. He feels that he can rely on his eye in-the-moment. I’m sure that a lot of others will disagree, and come into the more technical questions with more technical plans.

Um, david O’Connor is NOT there to ride, but to coach. Different problem, I’d imagine very different interview as well.

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