I can only recall two riders who have been killed at 4*s in the past twenty years. Benjamin Winter and Caroline Pratt are the names I recall. There may be others.
If you are getting that opinion from this thread, you really could not be more wrong. I think there are several of us on here that have been advocating that something should be done - as it has been for years - there have actually been massive improvements over the years. Of course as technology etc develops everything should be done to use those tools to help make the sport safer at all levels and for all participants. What I have been disagreeing with is:
-
That it is all the course builders fault. Of course he has a role to play - but so do the riders, so do the team trainers, so does the FEI, and the ground jury and the technical delegate, and, and, and… to vilify one person is not right because it does not make the sport more safe. If riders think ‘everything is perfect, I just need to point the horse’; it makes the sport no safer. Really.
-
Accidents DO happen. Tragic, horrible accidents. You can make the fences as safe as racing hurdles - the sad fact is that horse deaths (and riders) are prevalent there too. You can remove the fences altogether - the sad fact is that horses and riders still have (fatal) accidents. That does not mean that I am just blindly accepting the risks but I find it hard to accept the person that felt that fence 2 (where the Italian rider fell) should have been sited on the flat to prevent that - the problem with having two brains is that misunderstandings do occur. Should that be fatal? No, obviously not. Will it sometimes be fatal? Yes, I believe it will - as per the racing example, as per humans passing each other in cars, sometimes things go horribly, horribly wrong. Should we do all that we can to limit that? Yes absolutely - but that means looking at every single factor from the design of horse shoes to minimise the slipping, to how the ground is maintained, to how the course designer designs, to how riders prepare and how riders protest if they feel a fence is not right (in this instance, we would have kept the main lake fence and removed the bullfinch, such was the competitors concern), to how funding is allocated and how perforrmance managers decide who would benefit, to veterinary improvements - ALL of those things could help.
-
I also feel (which I have not voice on here yet) that we are focusing all the attention on the visible casualties of an event. The ones that publicly breakdown, that somersault, or leave a leg – but as someone who has spent many years behind the scenes, there are many horses that complete the XC never to compete again. That rate has really dramatically improved, not just in the switch from long to short format, but I believe has improved during the life of the short format - but it’s an area with few formal stats. To me, these horses are every bit as important as the more dramatic falls that catch the attention and it is to the credit of the sport, and veterinary science, that that is the case.
5 Likes
Interesting, because to me it seems the opposite is true. It seemed more horses in the long format competed year after year and now it seems you see them for a few years and then they are gone. I have no concrete proof though just what it seems from following the ULs.
2 Likes
I never made a gross generalization that 4* riders are callous, vehicle-oriented jerks. Obviously I seem to have struck a nerve with that remark. 
Also obviously I am not in the minority in my belief that it was poor form for her to get herself up and walk away, not even bothering to go to her horse. He deserved at least that much from her after the way she’d ridden him and I don’t care how many support people she had helping her.
3 Likes
Just an observation. First of all, it’s great that this discussion is taking place, it needs to. Secondly, from my Smurf level vantage point, I’ve been tremendously impressed by how resistant TPTB are to safety improvements. It seems it takes a great deal of kicking and dragging and too many tragedies to push through simple things, such as requiring a helmet in dressage. Something the FEI refuses to require to this day. So, anyone who gets their knickers in a twist when the plebeians raise safety concerns needs to get over it. This sport will not survive without the ongoing efforts to find the best course designers, fence builders and safety experts to keep the carnage to a minimum. Oh, and that includes stopping horses on course who are almost literally dead on their feet with exhaustion.
14 Likes
%100
1 Like
I was responding to Marigold.
1 Like
Maybe some riders should have made a better assessment of the course and their horse’s training/ability, when they walked it, then taken some options like Mr Jung did.
That’s the thing about going heroic, without absolute faith and ability it tends to bite you.
JER, being of Ukrainian descent, I can attest to the great cultural respect for the celebratory role of anything edible (and, yes, quaffable). Great vignette!
2 Likes
I completely agree that different people and horses appreciate different forms of praise (my sensitive horse likes verbal praise and wither scratching, not patting). Yet it was lovely to see Michael Jung when he finished XC - with a huge grin on his face and couldn’t stop gently patting his horse.
3 Likes
He’s likeable, loves his horses, rides like a Centaur. Is there anything to NOT like about him? Remarkable fellow and such a good ambassador for the sport.
7 Likes
Are people saying that EW just might not be one to give her horse praise? Like if she had of finished she wouldn’t have been giving that horse tones of pats and attention?
ok then.
This is the point I’ve been hammering home for years and the point that implementing the ERQI system will help with. There needs to be two components to getting qualified for ANY level (not just 4*). First, the component we already have which is the initial requirements needed to compete. However, there’s no timeline in which you can get those…you need three clear CIC/CCI3* and another either clear or with a twenty to go to a 4* but you could take fifty tries, or a hundred to get them. There are always people entered at 4*& who DID take an obscene number of tries to obtain those qualifications and horrifyingly are sometimes applauded as examples of riders who don’t give up.
In order to help make this sport safer, the other component needing to be looked at is the competitor’s ongoing record of stops, retiring due to stops, eliminations of various types with horse falls weighted more heavily, and more recent results weighed more heavily. Guess what? The ERQI does all that!
If you aren’t sure what ERQI does or how it works, just Google it. Eventing Nation and H&H have both done multiple stories on it, Eventing Ireland significantly reduced horse falls at the 2* level by implementing it last year, the USEA has signed on to provide it to members (not enforced yet but it’s a start), and FEI has signed on to look at it for 4*. This is coming and it’s going to be huge for the sport as a way of enforcing rider responsibility.
10 Likes
I don’t know or care if EW is into praising her horse for the benefit of the public or in private. I’ve seen her ride that horse very well at Rolex and I know that she’s worked out some kind of relationship with that horse that works for the two of them. That’s what it’s like working with animals.
I know of a dog trainer with a huge following who does trick shows with her dogs that make them look like a happy loving family. All sorts of cutesy stuff in social media. Lots of statements about how much she loves her dogs and positive training. The truth is, she trains with shock collars.
I don’t like that EW rode a tired horse like that. If she gave him praise after every fence and rushed to see if he was ok after the fall, I still wouldn’t like that she rode a tired horse like that.
13 Likes
I find it extremely offensive that there are generalizations about the British and how much they care for their horses. You have no idea how much one cares about their horse or what they think about the sport, unless of course, you spoke with every Briton to determine to what their level of concern is. It’s like saying all Irishmen are drunks, or all African Americans can dance. As an Englishman, I am offended.
11 Likes
I think this is what Tim Bourke told us about in Aiken. We snagged a jump lesson with him and we got to talking, (in the cold hard rain,) about this. I think he said he did a presentation for a group of Irish horse bigwigs on it and he was really impressed. The story he told was that the two guys who came up with it, an Irish ULR and his IT geek buddy could not get anyone to pay attention to them. Finally, at one big upper level Event in Ireland or England they gave officials a list of 10 horse and rider combinations to watch. Something like 8/10 on that list had major problems. That got everyone’s attention. Sounds very,very exciting.
8 Likes
Just about to listen to the Equiratings podcast Badminton review. Will be interesting to hear what they have to say.
1 Like
Please share after what you heard!
I can’t wait to learn more about the system and see it in action. And I presume they take a purely statistical approach to things – so there won’t be any assuming on the front end about what is or isn’t a problem. Just following the numbers.
Well, I was listening at work, so not listening well. But it was pretty light, I didn’t hear a lot of talk about course design or the falls. So I found it disappointing.
