Oh - Started to go again but had bandage trailing. horse looks a little stiff behind. Replay shows he had a pretty bad shot at the corner - but it was jumpable, just horse too out of steam to help him out. 
[QUOTE=Doodlebug1;7570969]
Clark at Huntsmans. ran out of petrol. Tired sotp and retired.[/QUOTE]
Oh I am so sorry for that …
Thanks so much Doodlebug1! You are a very classy person yourself. 
Generally though (not meaning to sound this as a criticism of Clark particularly) but horses who have finished have finished looking really well.
OMFG - ANDREW NICHOLSON LAST PERSON ON COURSE ALSO FELL - THE ONLY PERSON TO HAVE HAD A PROBLEM AT THAT FENCE.
again, a silly tip off. Hors and rider 100% fine.
[QUOTE=Doodlebug1;7570971]
Oh - Started to go again but had bandage trailing. horse looks a little stiff behind. Replay shows he had a pretty bad shot at the corner - but it was jumpable, just horse too out of steam to help him out. :([/QUOTE]
So he’s definitely done for the day, then? That is too bad. But lives to go out again another day …
I hear you on the fitness thing. That is definitely a huge issue on a lot of fronts.
So sorry about Andrew … so many BNR’s fell like rain!
You are killing me! I can hardly stand to scroll down…
Thanks for all the updates, Doodlebug1!
Very disappointing about Clark M but at least he was looking out for his horse’s interest.
Wow, that was crazy. I haven’t seen anything like it in a long time, and I only watched the second half! It will be interesting to crunch some numbers on this.
The British commentators kept mentioning that both Clark’s horses are known for not having stamina. Looks like perhaps that caught up with him even with the hold on course.
Here’s what I think is interesting. The really BNRs, except for Pippa Funnell, did not do well on this course. It was also pointed out that the mid level riders put in more clears than the top level ones. The Dutch finished all their riders and the Irish did very well as well. The last riders had to fight really bad conditions; I think I heard about cold and sideways driving rain.
I’m not able to watch, but I did listen to Badminton Radio and also kept up with the H&H live stream texting. Because the Continental Europeans seemed to do remarkably well on this course ON THE WHOLE, it makes one wonder if there was something about it that continental training methods benefited.
Yeah, been a long time since someone in 41st after dressage pulls up to second 
A LOT of rider falls today - but actually not nearly as terrifying to watch as some years. The course seemed a bit too extreme in what it was trying to achieve - but in the right direction. And if there were more courses like that then I think the course would have been fine and generated a good result, on the most part it encouraged good riding. Be interesting to see what the overall opinion turns out to be.
Vineyridge I think you’re absolutely right the Euro’s benefitted because it almost tipped into punishing the riders who let the horses figure it out. Riders who micromanaged every element, did pretty well - and that’s why I think it was a little too extreme.
If it had been fractionally less intense it would have brought people back from wanging at fences to really respecting and riding them - which on the most part, people did. BUT this course took it a tiny bit too far and you actually had to be really perfect.
Generally REALLY perfect is sacraficed for really, really good - and faster. I saw a lot of really good riding today - but anything less than really good was perhaps punished too much.
But by punished - the ‘punishment’ was not too severe - no serious casualites - but it would have been nice to see more finishers.
So, either soften the course - or make this standard the norm - and people and horses will get used ot it and it will balance out.
i liked the fact that so many of the refusals were glance offs or horses just saying from a long way out ‘I’m too tired/I’m not on for this’ - there were really few that were really ugly, tangled in fences/exhausted stops. And true of falls too. Most were rider ‘tip offs’ rather than really nasty concussing/bone breaking falls.
I never had to watch through my fingers… and in the last few years, sometimes I’ve really had to almost walk away.
I actually think the Dutch and Belgians did well as rode their lines really well and kept the power. Anyone who was slightly off got penalised. Also you could not make a mistake and have a few let up fences to get going again. Every fence asked a question. Their was no hairy riding but horse bravery was not enough to rely on.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7570993]
The British commentators kept mentioning that both Clark’s horses are known for not having stamina. Looks like perhaps that caught up with him even with the hold on course.
Here’s what I think is interesting. The really BNRs, except for Pippa Funnell, did not do well on this course. It was also pointed out that the mid level riders put in more clears than the top level ones. The Dutch finished all their riders and the Irish did very well as well. The last riders had to fight really bad conditions; I think I heard about cold and sideways driving rain.
I’m not able to watch, but I did listen to Badminton Radio and also kept up with the H&H live stream texting. Because the Continental Europeans seemed to do remarkably well on this course ON THE WHOLE, it makes one wonder if there was something about it that continental training methods benefited.[/QUOTE]
Something rather interesting like that happened at the 2006 Rolex KY. Although BNR’s certainly did well, several of the favorites - Windfall II, Kim Severson, WFP - had problems. And had them on jumps that one mid-ranker after another skipped through without a hitch.
In that case, most of the BNR’s with problems were on horses less experienced at the level, while the mid-rankers that rode the bogey jumps superbly were mostly those that turned up for every Rolex on their good Rolex horse.
Are there parallels with some of the problems in this year’s Badminton XC? BNR’s with rides that didn’t end so well … but not on their top 4* horses?
From 2006 Rolex KY - not that it matters
after dressage, dominating performances - but by 2 horses that didn’t fare well at all on XC
http://www.equisearch.com/news/nancy_jaffer/rolexdressage_042806/
http://www.phelpssports.com/viewarticle.php?id=76
here’s how it finished - completely different set of names
http://www.equisearch.com/news/nancy_jaffer/rolexfinal_043006/
[QUOTE=Doodlebug1;7570999]
So, either soften the course - or make this standard the norm - and people and horses will get used ot it and it will balance out.[/QUOTE]
First, reading your posts throughout was wonderful, thank you for I’ve had to do farm chores and miss most of what’s going on.
With the said, only 35 riders of over 100 made it past cross country, Not a single one made time and over a third had fence penalties, yet you seems to feel the the course was fair or just “a little extreme”. hmmmm…
Can we not always fault the riders, given the there were a number of very accomplished teams out there, and maybe ask the question, was this a honest course? Those that made it took long routes, certainly took extra time and that is not normally what 4* teams do.
I hope there is a close look at how this course was laid out given the numbers. We don’t want injured horses and no rider is perfect so to have a course that demanded a perfect ride (which none had) in bad conditions makes me at least ask the question, did this course serve well the sport? My own answer would be no,
Well, you can’t say Nereo or Parkland Hawk or Imperial Cavalier are second tier horses.
Perhaps the weather and track conditions contributed mightily to the results. If, as the commentators kept emphasing, the course required extremely accurate riding, a stick or slight slip could make a huge difference. Maybe it was too technical for the conditions, especially for people who cared about trying to make the time. Perhaps if you started out with the idea that you wouldn’t be able to make the time and just rode to finish, you did better.
Are the Dutch going to be a new force at WEG?
Until you have watched it then I feel looking at the numbers is in this case not actually telling the whole story. I watched every single ride and I have watched 4* for 20 years and I actually felt it was the horse friendliest course I have seen. Each question was readable. The outlander bank had no issues last year. It was identical apart from adding the skinny so as a fence which jumped perfectly last year and this year caused issues, it ain’t the horses because they have no idea about the skinny, but the riders know which affected their power and canter into the fence.
The Dutch may be a big force - but note there were no Germans there today - THEY are the ones to watch!
JP60 - I really wholeheartedly agree with mugsgame - the numbers don’t show the reality. It probably was a little bit too intense - but it was SO nearly a vintage Badminton.
The drainage under hte course is exceptional there and the course was not that wet. Tina (Cook) - one who had a silly run out - was commentating and she was certainly of the opinion that no one could use the weather as an excuse - though both she and Toddy did say that galloping into the wind was energy sapping.
I only watched the last half, but I did not see a single horse slip. I think the ground was holding and perhaps tiring, but nobody was having poor jumps or turns due to slips.
I agree with others who say, you had to watch to see some of the problems - e.g. Pippa Funnell’s fall was her own fault - she took a risk in riding her line, it was sloppy riding and she paid for it. The horse was honest and jumped the fence.
One thing I do think should be addressed is the flagging for maximum width corners. I don’t want to see so many horses drifting and catching their legs and crashing over the flags. I don’t know what the flags were made of, but after that horse that was skewered a few years ago I wouldn’t want to see that again. Also I think it’s unfair to riders when it’s so questionable if they made it through the flags that the Ground Jury needs video replay - so the rider either decides to re-present or continue on, either way risking elimination.
Ok, let’s not forget AN was rather annoyed they removed 18b yesterday; he saw the weather report. The weather took it’s toll. There is an extensive course walk with the designer that I encourage everyone to watch. I happen to think it’s a spectacular course…it’s Badminton. It requires an old style ‘toughness’ with some modern rider thinking. And anyone who went too fast in the beginning, well, you didn’t have enough horse left.
There’s a big gap in everything required between the 3* & even a 4* such as Rolex vs a Badminton or a Burghley. Different types of horses almost…sure aren’t going to prep your horse well for a Badminton by running it in a bunch of 3*s with XC last unless you have that feeling…Tianas approach to less is more, Pippa knew her greenie was the type of horse for the job. But the weather made it much more difficult than even AN anticipated, it happens once in a blue moon 
I don’t think the Germans wanted to show up & risk be exposed on this course. Saving their horses (wisely) for WEG.
Numbers in this case, given the major weather component - you can probably do what you like with them but not sure they will be relevant. Breeding of the horses would be interesting to take a look at.
I’ll reserve further comment until I watch a bit more.
Should make the WEG course interesting.
Cross Country Results are currently being confirmed and will appear here shortly.
Well we all know that the results aren’t official until this & that … does Badminton usually hide the results while they are official-izing them? Rolex KY does not. I’ve never noticed this before. They were certainly on display in a very unofficial status until now.
