balance of wildlife and barn cats/feral cats

[CanadianTrotter]

@Chall

It’s like a religion to some that cats must be stopped.
Reminds of the days where hate on wolves and bounties or the wild horses are destroying public lands so we need to kill them.

I am far from hating cats and I most definitely don’t want to see them killed because of what humans have caused them.

What I want is for any and all owners to maintain and contain all cats.

[CanadianTrotter]

@4horses

It’s simple. If you don’t want to have dead birds, put the cats inside during the spring during hatching season. As baby birds go through a fledgling stage where they are on the ground because they aren’t flying. That is when they are the most vulnerable.

When I had outdoor cats, I always looked for bird nests, checked those nests, and moved the cats inside for a week or two. I put up birdhouses and always checked them in the spring. The house wrens nest on my property every year. The mockingbirds used to nest here, but the crows got them every year.

It’s funny that they only consider bird fatalities due to cats. Snakes will eat baby birds, so will other birds, raccoons etc. Tons of predators. The blue birds nested one year and I am guessing a raccoon or squirrel chewed through a 1 inch solid wood birdhouse sometime during the night. Very sad because I was looking forward to seeing the babies.

As for bird fatalities here:

1 crow was electrocuted on the powerlines.

One nest of house wrens was destroyed by a storm, another nest was eaten by a snake… The crows and mockingbirds are bitter enemies and we have never had mockingbird babies raised successfully. The house wrens responded by making another nest and having 4 healthy babies…They were flying in my hay shed.

As for my cats, they have killed some baby bunnies and 1 or 2 birds. The cats usually carry their dinner to the house to eat. Most of the predation I have observed is not from the cats. Should we eliminate snakes or raccoons so the birds have a better chance?

Unless you have rare species of birds, I’m not too concerned about losing birds from cats. Snakes will climb right up into the trees or birdhouses, so i would guess snakes probably eat more baby birds then any other species, at least in this area.

The house wrens are doing great. They usually have 3-4 babies each year and are the most likely to raise them successfully. A well fed house cat probably isn’t going to have that much of an impact on bird species. They may kill something that is in the fledgling stage, at nose level in front of them, but so will any other predator that comes along. Cats may kill snakes and that would be beneficial for birds.

Humans, deforestation, and habitat loss probably has a far larger impact then the minor damage cats do.

I knew one barn that had a terrible rat problem and the fattest squirrels you have ever seen. They didn’t secure their sweet feed. Must have been hundreds of rats in that barn! I will take a bunch of cats any day, over hundreds of rats…

North America has lost over 3 billion birds since 1970, most were the common backyard birds you don’t seem to care about. We owe “all” birds any and all the help we can manage and muster, even if it’s a little inconvenient for us.

[CanadianTrotter]

@BabyGoose

I don’t think it is acceptable for dogs to kill birds either. However, I haven’t seen any studies that show that dogs have the same impact on killing of wildlife as cats. Maybe that is something that @wildlifer could give us some insight on.

Agree, it isn’t acceptable for dogs to kill birds either, even though they kill far less than cats do.

If people can’t handle keeping their cats inside then invest a few hundred dollars to build an outdoor enclosure. If they stay near the house and don’t wander they would easily adapt to an enclosure and it will greatly modify their behaviour. Keep your cats safe and save the birds.

[Denali6298]

Damn, this thread becomes three pages because one person.

[BabyGoose]

@Denali6298

Damn, this thread becomes three pages because one person.

[S1969]

@Simkie

I’ve seen my cat come up with a bird (dead, head gone, that seems to be the tasty bit) and 3 minutes later there is zero evidence of a bird at all. No feathers, no parts left.

So just because you see no bits of birds doesn’t mean that there are no birds being killed. FWIW.

Sure, but 10+ years of finding mice heads on my doorstep - you’d think I’d have seen at least one feather.

I’m not sure why this has been a 3 page thread either. Lots of people on COTH keep barn cats; I guess they won’t bother to respond on this thread or they will be called environmentally unfriendly (not that they didn’t already know this if they are horse owners.). My cats are barn/house cats. Feral cats that are unaltered are a true menace to the environment. Altered cats…your mileage may vary. Mine sleep a lot.

[CanadianTrotter]

Hey, cat owners can do whatever they want to do…they will anyways no matter what kind of evidence is either put in front of them or told to them through scientific research. The least they can do is own up to their part in contributing to to the large decline in our bird population. If their convenience is more important than the eventual decimation of certain species, so be it.

[Simkie]

@S1969

Sure, but 10+ years of finding mice heads on my doorstep - you’d think I’d have seen at least one feather.

Why do you think that?

Seriously, the cat had a bird. I let him keep it because it was very dead. Just a couple minutes later there was ZERO evidence of a bird. They really don’t leave anything.

I’m not sure why you’d quote my post about how there’s nothing left and respond that you’d surely see something? Because I literally just described how they don’t leave anything.

I get that hearing how cats impact wildlife on a really grand scale is hard. I have an outdoor cat and I really struggle with him being outdoors. But he’s very good at his job of dealing with the barn mice. He also eats birds–probably more than I’d ever guess, even though I absolutely acknowledge they’re on the menu, and do try to limit that.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹And yet you absolutely refuse to consider that your cats are eating birds…? Despite the abundance of evidence detailing how that’s what outside cats do?

[BabyGoose]

I guess I didn’t realize there was a page limit on threads these days. Or is it only when the subject is too uncomfortably true…

It isn’t even the eventual decimation of species, it has already happened.

https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-in…ats-and-birds/

Keeping cats indoors in a very simple solution that can make a huge positive impact on wildlife.

My last barn cat passed away probably 10 years ago. After seeing the cat destruction of birds, lizards, snakes, and yet still have mice in my feed room I realized it was time to stop being part of the problem. I now snap trap the mice. Without the cat I have fewer mice and a family of lizards has taken up residence in my feed room. I have also seen more bull snakes which also probably helps keep the mice down.

Now if I can just keep the neighbors cats out of my area. I strongly haze them every time I see them. I don’t want them over here after my wildlife, yet the neighbors think I should be excited to be bestowed the presence of their lovely fluffy puffy. NO! I don’t want to see your cat. I want to see my wildlife. Intact preferably.

[wildlifer]

@BabyGoose

I don’t think it is acceptable for dogs to kill birds either. However, I haven’t seen any studies that show that dogs have the same impact on killing of wildlife as cats. Maybe that is something that @wildlifer could give us some insight on.

You are correct – dogs certainly can have wildlife impacts as well (no domestic pets should be left unsupervised), but the mechanisms are different & dogs are less likely to capture birds than cats are (not that it doesn’t happen, it’s just less frequent). But the OP asked about cats, so I answered about cats. As I’ve mentioned before, google “kitty cam research” to see some of the work done into all the kills humans don’t see.

Every step we can take to help what’s left of our native wildlife is worthwhile and cats are a big one. Of course, we can also do many other things at the same time – most native species are suffering the “death of a thousand cuts,” so any time we can reduce the amount of those cuts, it’s worth doing.

[Chall]

So are Bobcats just as destructive?

[BabyGoose]

@Chall

So are Bobcats just as destructive?

Bobcats are a native wildlife species.

[Simkie]

@Chall

So are Bobcats just as destructive?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat

Its preference is for mammals weighing about 1.5 to 12.5 lb

So no, not as destructive to bird populations.

[CanadianTrotter]

@wildlifer

You are correct – dogs certainly can have wildlife impacts as well (no domestic pets should be left unsupervised), but the mechanisms are different & dogs are less likely to capture birds than cats are (not that it doesn’t happen, it’s just less frequent). But the OP asked about cats, so I answered about cats. As I’ve mentioned before, google “kitty cam research” to see some of the work done into all the kills humans don’t see.

Every step we can take to help what’s left of our native wildlife is worthwhile and cats are a big one. Of course, we can also do many other things at the same time – most native species are suffering the “death of a thousand cuts,” so any time we can reduce the amount of those cuts, it’s worth doing.

Absolutely agree.

[CanadianTrotter]

@Chall

So are Bobcats just as destructive?

Definitely not as destructive to the bird populations, they’re also a natural predator and not insanely overpopulated, continuously breeding and causing massive destruction to any or one particular species.

[wildlifer]

Correct, bobcats are a native predator - native prey species co-evolved with the bobcat in their lives and their life history strategies incorporate the “accounting” for the pressure of “a bobcat might occasionally eat me or my partner or my children.” Bobcat population densities in any one area are low because they are solitary animals who maintain territories; they are also declining in many areas due to habitat loss. Like most wild animals, they also generally only kill what they need to eat or feed their young. Domestic cats are obviously dramatically more numerous and their kills are often not linked to their hunger level, they will kill something because it moved or because it entertained them - this is a “luxury” that wild animals cannot usually waste energy resources on.

And just to be clear, I love (most) pets, including cats. I have a cat who “found” me & is enjoying the climate-controlled house life while watching bunnies through the window. I understand that not all cats can succeed indoors, as cat urine is its own level of odoriferous hell that is impossible to get out of things. I have no objection to keeping such cats IN A SECURE PEN outdoors, that includes walls & a roof, such things are easy to build or can be purchased. I even had one previous cat who enjoyed going for walks on a harness & leash (he also played fetch, he was pretty cool). If said cat complains about a pen, well, too bad – I don’t always get what I want when I whine either, heh.

[Denali6298]

@BabyGoose

I guess I didn’t realize there was a page limit on threads these days. Or is it only when the subject is too uncomfortably true…

It isn’t even the eventual decimation of species, it has already happened.

https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-in…ats-and-birds/

Keeping cats indoors in a very simple solution that can make a huge positive impact on wildlife.

My last barn cat passed away probably 10 years ago. After seeing the cat destruction of birds, lizards, snakes, and yet still have mice in my feed room I realized it was time to stop being part of the problem. I now snap trap the mice. Without the cat I have fewer mice and a family of lizards has taken up residence in my feed room. I have also seen more bull snakes which also probably helps keep the mice down.

Now if I can just keep the neighbors cats out of my area. I strongly haze them every time I see them. I don’t want them over here after my wildlife, yet the neighbors think I should be excited to be bestowed the presence of their lovely fluffy puffy. NO! I don’t want to see your cat. I want to see my wildlife. Intact preferably.

There’s not. Just mentioned because a grudge. The poster has a grudge so will be combative. We all know the introduction of animals has an effect. But a particular poster is being argumentative because she doesn’t like another poster.

ETA: and she is silent to hopefully prove me wrong. God willing.

[skydy]

Bringing dogs into a discussion about the killing of bird life by cats, seems rather silly and disingenuous. In my experience dogs tend not to climb trees, while cats know that up a tree is the place to be to catch a songbird.

[CanadianTrotter]

@wildlifer

Correct, bobcats are a native predator - native prey species co-evolved with the bobcat in their lives and their life history strategies incorporate the “accounting” for the pressure of “a bobcat might occasionally eat me or my partner or my children.” Bobcat population densities in any one area are low because they are solitary animals who maintain territories; they are also declining in many areas due to habitat loss. Like most wild animals, they also generally only kill what they need to eat or feed their young. Domestic cats are obviously dramatically more numerous and their kills are often not linked to their hunger level, they will kill something because it moved or because it entertained them - this is a “luxury” that wild animals cannot usually waste energy resources on.

And just to be clear, I love (most) pets, including cats. I have a cat who “found” me & is enjoying the climate-controlled house life while watching bunnies through the window. I understand that not all cats can succeed indoors, as cat urine is its own level of odoriferous hell that is impossible to get out of things. I have no objection to keeping such cats IN A SECURE PEN outdoors, that includes walls & a roof, such things are easy to build or can be purchased. I even had one previous cat who enjoyed going for walks on a harness & leash (he also played fetch, he was pretty cool). If said cat complains about a pen, well, too bad – I don’t always get what I want when I whine either, heh.

Outdoor cat enclosures are very easy and fairly economical to build, they give your cats the safely contained freedom they need and desire which dramatically improves their temperaments and and helps to curb any undesirable behaviour because they’re happier. Adding a maze of shelves, bridges, scratching posts and hiding spots keeps them interested and active and affords them space if you have more than one cat.I’m in the middle of putting the finishing touches and all the bells and whistles on my most recently built enclosure, I also put cat grass, cat nip and a disco ball in my cat’s enclosure…they’re absolutely entranced. I’ve also built small enclosed boxes the size of an air conditioner that I can put in different windows for ample sun or shade bathing of their choice.

I used to put a harness on one of my cats years ago when we lived in the city and before I started building outdoor enclosures. I know many people have success with walking their cats in a harness, I did as well until one day a loud noise spooked my cat and he broke his back when he bolted. I’ll never use a harness on a cat again.

[4horses]

Off topic, but any pictures of your cat enclosure?