Balancing Ca/Ph in Alfalfa pellets

[Rosewatt]

Hi Guys,

So I’m doing this to help out my BO, who was asking about what they may need to balance out their horse’s nutrition. I don’t feed my horse alfalfa, so Ca/Ph is not something I’m used to balancing or worrying about. What has higher Phosphorus to balance out the Calcium? They have recently received quite a bit of HorseTech’s High Point Grass/Mixed Hay 3oz with maybe up to 4 QRTS of alfalfa pellets? The BO did not have an exact measurement of that. Below is the amount of Ca: Ph for Horsetech’s High Point, 3oz. Without knowing the exact amount of Calcium to Phosphorus in the alfalfa given, I’ve estimated around 7.5-8 grams of Phosphorous according to HorseTech’s Alfalfa high point.

Calcium (min)	9.00%	7.66 grams
Calcium (max)	10.00%	8.50 grams
Phosphorus (min)	6.00%	5.1 grams

[islgrl]

This might help…

Calcium Phosphorus Ratio in the Equine Diet

[JB]

what’s the hay situation? If it’s grass hay, then I would love that much alfalfa helping balance the LOW ca that’s likely in the grass

You have to look at the whole diet, not just what’s being added on top of hay/grass.

[Rosewatt]

It is grass hay, definitely not alfalfa. I do know they have had to change sources due to shortages the past few years though, so I’ll have to double check on exactly what kind of grass hay, though I’m almost positive it is still Timothy hay due to the texture.

The Phosphorous/Calcium ratio is not something I’ve had to worry about for my own horse, so this is really an unfamiliar area to me. Is Grass hay typically quite low in Calcium and higher in Phosphorus? I’m reading that Alfalfa pellets typically have a 5 Ca: 1 Ph Ratio and will have to check if the BO still has the label to see if that corresponds with what she is actually giving, but I was unsure if 4 quartz of alfalfa plus the HorseTech grass/mixed hay supplement that is higher in Calcium would do much to tip the scale?

Just did a very rough calculation without the hay with MadBarn’s analysis and it actually isn’t as bad as I thought, if I did my math correctly, which I certainly could have messed up on: https://madbarn.com/feeds/alfalfa-pellet-20-cp-38-ndf/

Assuming 4 Quartz of dry matter Alfalfa = 2119.83 g = 29.35g Ca: 5.53g P

HorseTech Calcium Estimate: 5.75% Ca = 0.0575lb of Ca per 1lb x 0.1875lbs (3oz supply of HorseTech)x 453.6g per pound = 4.89 g Ca

HorseTech Phosphorous Estimate: 3.75% --> 0.0375lbs P x 0.1875lbs x 453.6g= 3.19g P

Total Calcium, excluding quantity in Hay: 29.35g in Alfalfa + 4.89g in supplement = 34.24g

Total Phosphorous, excluding quantity in Hay: 5.53g + 3.189g = 8.718

3.93 Ca: 1 Ph RATIO; A little high, but if the Timothy hay balances it out…

[BroncoMo]

Big generalization here but you WANT the calcium:phosphorous to be at a minimum 1:1. Or higher calcium than phosphorous, definitely don’t want phosphorous higher than calcium. And the acceptable range varies wildly depending on all other variables. You don’t have to shoot for a straight 1:1 ratio. As long as it’s not inverted; ie higher phosphorous than calcium.

Beyond that, we can really get down in the weeds on what the ratio truly is. But need a lot more info, including hay analysis.

[Rosewatt]

Yes, from my readings (which haven’t been much on this topic), I see that it is usually slightly above 1-2 Calcium to 1 Phosphorous. I guess my concern is that there would be too much Calcium here, as I did not know how that would tie into the hay and before I did the calculations, I thought it would be quite a bit higher than it actually is. Still curious though on how much the hay would combat it. Wish I had a recent hay analysis, but unfortunately I do not.

[JB]

@Rosewatt

Is Grass hay typically quite low in Calcium and higher in Phosphorus?

Yes. Often there’s not even enough Ca, and even when there is, often the ratio is too low.

If your math is all correct, and it’s 3.93:1 ca:p, then it’s pretty much guaranteed that 2% of their body weight in Timothy hay brings that ratio lower, and there’s plenty of both of these minerals.

[CindyCRNA]

We use this: https://horsetech.com/high-point-alfalfa

But my guy gets about 30 pounds of alfalfa a day so…

[Rosewatt]

Thank you! Unfortunately, my BO bought around 75lbs of the grass/hay mix based on my horse doing well on it haha. She just told me recently that she was feeding her horses half- 3/4 of soaked alfalfa cubes with it because that is what she has as a carrier and I wasn’t sure if that would make a large difference or not. They get timothy, first cut hay, otherwise. So long as the timothy helps offset the high Ca, I think she’ll be fine finishing it up now that I have done the calculations, I’m not as concerned.

I just wanted to make sure she had all the information to make a decision because she asked me and Ca/P is something I have never needed to look closely at for my own horse. Figured it would be a good opportunity to learn more myself, while also helping get her the information to start learning because I know when I first started learning about nutrition and associated calculations, it was a little overwhelming and I have a science degree