I want to add dutch doors (double) in place of the windows that are in the stalls now. I just got one quote of $900 for dutch doors on two stalls. This is for materials and labor.
Does anyone have a ballpark figure? Good contractors are hard to come by here and I have no idea of this cost.
[QUOTE=Serigraph;7084044]
I want to add dutch doors (double) in place of the windows that are in the stalls now. I just got one quote of $900 for dutch doors on two stalls. This is for materials and labor.
Does anyone have a ballpark figure? Good contractors are hard to come by here and I have no idea of this cost.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/luccimia/barnwindows_zps660cd710.jpg[/QUOTE]
Based on what they cost on new construction, I would not think $900 for two retrofitted is out of the ballpark. I would be pretty happy. Here are some without installation. There are more expensive ones too-definitely.
Yeah, I just got another estimate and he came in a bit above the other plus I’d have to get the supplies so I’m going with the crew that did our barn originally.
But doesn’t the job include cutting out the opening and reframing it so that it is structurally sound? If yes, I don’t think that $900 is out of line.
Yes it does. He’s actually going to put two posts in cement to frame the door so it can handle the weight.
B/c I’ve used him several times, he is throwing in another 1/2 dutch door into the price that one of my geldings has kicked in twice now. So I guess it is a pretty good price.
[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7084817]
Based on what they cost on new construction, I would not think $900 for two retrofitted is out of the ballpark. I would be pretty happy. Here are some without installation. There are more expensive ones too-definitely.
http://www.woodstarproducts.com/Doors/Dutch_Doors[/QUOTE]
I meant is NOT out of the ballpark. Oops. What a confusing post. Say it’s too much and link to more expensive doors. 
[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7085062]
I meant is NOT out of the ballpark. Oops. What a confusing post. Say it’s too much and link to more expensive doors. :P[/QUOTE]
Nah, I got the gist of it.
Our last Woodstar dutch doors rotted to pieces in no time.
[QUOTE=airhorse;7085626]
Our last Woodstar dutch doors rotted to pieces in no time.[/QUOTE]
Good to know. They are building the doors and the doors they have built 5 years ago are still holding up well.
I paid 1200.00 for one dutch door to be put in on my shed row. Thought it was pretty salty.
$900 for two??? Id expect to pay atleast that for one.
Where are you located? I will do it for $800 and laugh all the way to the bank.
We are talking very basic carpentry here. We’re not making furniture. The time it would take would depend on the existing framing of the barn. It looks like a typical pole barn sided with T-111 plywood? Are the doors going where the windows are? If so and the windows are located next to the support poles less time would be involved. The cost of the doors themselves comes down to what kind of materials will be used. Using T-111 and framing materials I don’t see it costing much more then $100+ per door. Using 1½ inch tongue and grove pine and a metal bottom door top edge will add a few more dollars.
If the doors can be hung on the existing support poles the rest of the framing can be done in pretty short order. But even if support poles have to be dug and installed we’re not talking a lot of time and very simple on a pole barn. It doesn’t require headers and other structural framing. If the barn is metal sided that adds time and hassle.
Any decent handyman/person/carpenter should be able to wipe this out in a day. That’s assuming the area the doors are being installed in is structurally sound and doesn’t require any additional work. Decent carpenters get $25-50 and hour. Trim carpenters around $75. But again this is a barn not a house and we are not making furniture so no need for the expertise of a trim carpenter. The trick is to find someone who has done this sort of thing before so you are not paying for their learning curve. If you took some pictures of the inside of the barn where these doors are going to go I could give you a better idea of cost but ball park IMO $500-600 based on $35+ an hour plus materials. Tops.
Personally I have found most carpenters are hallucinating on what they think their time and skills are worth. I say this having done plenty of this sort stuff along with just about everything else to do with remodeling, restoring, building houses and farm structures.
Especially considering how much time it takes to acquire the skills and expertise to work with and train horses. Maybe some do but I don’t make $100 a hour for an 8 hour day raising, breaking, training our horses.
Are the doors going where the windows are? If so and the windows are located next to the support poles less time would be involved. The cost of the doors themselves comes down to what kind of materials will be used.
Yep the doors are going about where the windows are. The inside structure does require adding support poles put in cement. Yes, T1-11 is being used and double plywood (I think) with metal or aluminum strips on the tops of the doors.
Here are before and after pics of our dutch doors. Still need to make new top doors as they are rotting as well. The old doors are from Woodstar, factory primed, 5 years old. They began rotting after about 6 months.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1074959_4529652854175_34088700_o.jpg
While I think it’s high as well and I know I could do it for cheaper, I also don’t think you will find a pro who will do it cheaper than that will all labour included. They do indeed overprice their work quite a bit, but it seems that almost all of them do. This is why I prefer to use the Underground Horsey Network to get things done. Farmers know everyone! This of course will vary widely based on location.
I’m glad I do my own work.
[QUOTE=airhorse;7087385]
Here are before and after pics of our dutch doors. Still need to make new top doors as they are rotting as well. The old doors are from Woodstar, factory primed, 5 years old. They began rotting after about 6 months.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1074959_4529652854175_34088700_o.jpg
These doors deteriorated most likely due to the use of cheap improper materials and poor craftsmanship. A lot of mass produced “inexpensive” wood products are made with a cheap type of fast growing “soft wood”. Even worse a lot of stuff is made with the same wood but scraps that are finger jointed together and made into dimensional lumber. If one looks closely they will be able to see the joints. They maybe very subtle when new but woods “moves” over time and they will become very visible. Especially if used for exterior. This stuff is garbage and should be avoided at all cost. When discussing and getting bids on a project make sure they are not quoting you using this garbage. The cost of labor is the same and the work will last a lot longer for a few dollars more. This may or may not have been used with these doors. But ones things for sure they were not made with weather resistant, pressure treated materials. If they were it was with the lowest grade known to man. The bottom most likely rotted out because the “faux” bottom trim board was a “water trap”. The rain/water “sits” on it allowing water to seep behind it and do its dirty work. The result is called “dry rotting” as seen in the top door and other faux trim boards. A bit of a misnomer being that it is caused by water. But it is caused by the water drying out constantly and “evaporating” with it the wood’s “structural elements”. This happens to a lot of outside trim boards when improperly used and or installed. Which is why one can punch a hole with a finger in what looks to be a “sound” and flat board. Paint being the only thing that is holding it together. The plywood rotted from the bottom up. Water splashing up off the bottom trim board didn’t help either. All of the framing should have been done with pressure treated material. I use deck boards, they are 4 quarter thick and rip/cut the rounded edge off. Meaning they are a full 1 inch think. Yes, your trim boards are called 1X6 but they only measure ¾ by 5 ½ now a days closer to 5 ¼. The “yard stick” keeps getting shorter for just about everything these days. 4 quarter (1 inch) and 5 quarter ( 1 ¼ inch) is stronger and “looks” appropriated. (tip, if one has to use ¾ material for base board trim putting a 10-15 degree bevel on the top adds to the visual look and makes it appear to be a proper 4 quarter trim board. The bevel is so slight that the top of the base board still looks flat for the most part)
Caulking would have helped extent their life also. But woods moves over time and breaks a poorly caulked joint. I would have added a couple of “water weep holes” to the back of the bottom board. I take my saw and add an extra blade to make the cut, saw kurf wider and set the dept at about an 1/8 and make a couple of vertical “cuts”, lines on the back of the bottom board so water can drain off the flat area. Though they become useless if filled with paint. The same that happened to storm windows when the weep hole is filled with paint or improper caulking. The sills rot and the storm windows can fog up.
Personally I am not a big fan of the look of “Dutch” doors. The generic name being split doors. The Dutch comes into play with the “faux” cross trim boards being added. IMO it is over used. But to each their own. In short if you want the Dutch door look make sure they are not “faux” like these. Properly made ones will last a lot longer but are fairly labor intensive and should be made with very good materials so be prepared to pay $$$$.
To avoid the chance of your doors ending up like Air horse #14 insist on having them made properly as I said above and ask what kind of material they will be using. Using T-1-11 will give you the “weep holes” without cutting the trim board. Our outside stall doors are made with 8 inch ¾ tongue and groove bead board framed with 4 quarter lumber. Though 2 by material works just fine also. The doors are over 20 years old and are just starting to get a “tired” look. When I redo them I will use bead board with deck boards or 2X8 tongue and groove the same that is used for stalls and or barn flooring that can be bought at a Pole barn supply. Our doors were “capped” with galvanized sheet metal. I found it to be a maintenance hassle coming loose from time and “horse abuse”. I use thin angle iron instead with the securing screws being counter sunk and screwed into solid wood not plywood. Using “liquid nails” on the bottom of the angle iron maybe good enough when screwed into plywood. The top and bottom doors were beveled so as to give and tighter seal when closed. I see no need for the extra detail that adds time and expense. Yes, in wind driven rain storms water can blow into the stall through the small gap but that doesn’t happen very often around here. It is a barn after all. The beveled top edge is extremely inviting to cribbers and chewers.
I would not use a contractor. Contractors generally don’t do the work themselves but find, contract someone to do it so you are paying 2 people. More depending on how big the contractor is. The last “contractor” I hired to do some “high end” trim work on our house was a joke and they came with good references. Which shows people are just used to being ripped off. Not their fault people shouldn’t have to know what I know to make sure they are being treated fairly. There was a day when people took pride in their work and their reputation. Far and few between these days. Anyway, I was quoted time a materials at $85 an hour with an estimated total cost of $25,000. The contractor came over several times and I went into great detail what I wanted done. They said they have “craftsmen” that they have employed for years. They showed up with the finger jointed crap instead of clear poplar. Instead of several “craftsmen” one guy and a half assed assistant that I was also charged $15 and hour who wasn’t worth minimum wage. As it turned out the guy was a decent handyman/carpenter who they just hired and were paying $30 an hour. I sent back the garbage wood and then had to work fairly closely with the guy. The whole reason I hired the “contractor’ and spent plenty of time going over details was to take me out of the equation so I could concentrate my time on my horse business. After spending about $15,000 I threw them off the job and withheld some money which they never came after me for. They are out of business now I am told. The “handyman” quite them also. I have used him since and have given his number to others who have been very pleased with his work.
A good “handyman/person/carpenter is worth their weight in gold and well worth going through what ever it takes to find one. When you do don’t be cheap, treat well and you will be happy ever after. Just like a good farrier, hay person, vet, etc.
Sorry, I digress, its my nature. Using the material you described, pole barn, simple project this should not cost more then $500. 8 hours @ $35 an hour, which is more then need for this, is $280 leaving $220 for materials which should be plenty for what you are having done. If not there should be room to move on the labor costs.
[QUOTE=Tom King;7088038]
I’m glad I do my own work.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing.
People ask me how I know how to do all the stuff I do. Because in my early years I couldn’t afford to pay others to do it. Books and people can tell you everything you need to know by and large. The internet makes it even easier.
Now I have the money most of the time but the quotes and or workmanship is ridiculous most of the time. I refuse to eat dog food to afford them while they are eating steak. Most contractors, carpenters don’t like working for me because I know too much. I know what I know but I also know what I don’t know.
[QUOTE=gumtree;7088223]
These doors deteriorated most likely due to the use of cheap improper materials and poor craftsmanship. [/QUOTE]
Yes, and for $575 per door, they should have been made out of treated lumber and exterior grade plywood. The older doors we have from them have held up much better and are constructed differently. Save a buck, lose a customer for life. BTW, they would not warranty the doors either.
The ones I made will last a lifetime…
[QUOTE=gumtree;7088223]
Yes, your trim boards are called 1X6 but they only measure ¾ by 5 ½ now a days closer to 5 ¼. [/QUOTE]
Nope, they were actually 2X6.
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