Barefoot and the dressage horse

[exploding_pony]

I have three horses - two are retired and barefoot, the horse in training has shoes.

When I pulled shoes on the two who are now barefoot, I did it in the fall, after the rain started. Pulling shoes in the summer when the ground is really hard is asking for disaster. You want to give them the best shot at transitioning comfortably.

I would not have a horse uncomfortable for two cycles - so you are taking about 3-4 months of discomfort. That’s unacceptable to me. I would take a really hard look at what is happening.

Tried my young horse barefoot and it just didn’t work for him. Different horses behave differently, but I will just say that I would not do something that kept my horse uncomfortable/unsound when he was comfortable and sound in the other situation.

[angel]

Most of my horses have been barefoot their entire lives. There have been problem children that have had to have shoes as well. My experience is that if the horse is repeatedly sore-footed after this farrier has trimmed, the farrier is cutting the horse too short and probably taking too much sole as well. If you want to have one more trim from this person, tell him to leave the sole alone and only rasp the excess wall, assuming that you do the normal six weeks between trim time frame. See if that helps.

If you do any showing, it is unfair to your horse for him to be barefoot in front. I learned this the hard way when one of the venues in which we went to show had really bad, hard footing. You never know what kind of footing awaits you at a show.

[JLR1]

My horse is barefoot and has been except for an ill advised year in shoes. His transition back was fairly easy due to the quality of his hoof and sole concavity. I have known horses that really couldn’t comfortably make it through the transition phase due to thin soles, or other hoof pathology. A transition can take 6-9 months and if your horse is still so sore and boots are not an option I would be inclined to reshoe. It’s a tough decision, but without the use of boots it seems a bit unfair to him.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

Mine, so far, are barefoot.

We had a period of time this summer when the ground got really hard and I questioned my sanity. A bit dainty on the gravel driveway, a bit sensitive in some spots when hacking but, despite being barefoot, both horses were always comfortable and moving well in the indoor arena/outdoor sand ring.

So… they were barefoot, they were ‘sensitive’ but they could work.

Not sure if yours was still able to “work” if you monitor the surface properly.

One thing that helped with the ‘extra dainty’ one was to use some sore no more poultice on the hoof. Yes, as silly as it sound, clean out hoof/frog cleft really well and then just slap it in there. I did use some clean shavings to make it less sticky and more likely to stay there. Whether in or out overnight, I just left the SNM poultice in there until the next time I rode. Worked really really well in making the foot less reactive to the pebbles/gravel.

[rabicon]

I would find a new farrier and put shoes back on. The barefoot trimmers that tell you this is better for the horse blah blah are it usually looking at the whole picture and are preachers of barefoot no matter how the horse reacts to it.

[Kyrabee]

Yes…2 cycles and still sore. Something is wrong in the trim. A horse with no significant pathology shouldn’t be sore 2 months down the line.

I had a mare that had been in all manner of wonky shoes (wedge egg bars and worse) because the farrier was just sure she HAD to be 52 degrees. It drove me crazy and horse was not comfortable in that package. I finally yanked those shoes off and took her barefoot in September…still hard ground. She was sore for about 4-5 days out of 3 degree wedges. She didn’t look back. I did put shoes back on her in the spring but a much more conservative package. Anyway, her transition was not long at all, even with the hard ground.

As far as reset shoes, if the shoe is not excessively worn, I would much rather put reset shoes back on. The breakover is worn as the horse likes and I would rather these go back on.

My current horse is BF, schooling second level. Well…I should qualify that during the hot, dry months, I do use boots but more for my piece of mind for protection. We have rock migration issues in the big arena and so it is. My horse abhors having nails driven into her feet. I spent hours working with her…I could get her to settle but I wasn’t actually driving nails…just tapping her feet. So the boots offer a compromise for work. The rest of the time, she is nekkid.

Susan

[Wirt]

First off, this barefoot thing is out of hand. FYI< A farrier is someone who shoes horses. If he or she only trims, then they are “trimmer” not a farrier. You cannot call yourself a farrier, and not shoe horses.Period.
Your horse was fine until you stopped shoeing him. Use your head. He needs to be shod. End of story. If you don’t like the job that shoer was doing, get a different shoer. Just shoe your horse and get on with things. To stop shoeing him because the farrier re-set the shoes, only means it is you who is not educated. It is perfectly fine to re-set at least once. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHOEING YOUR HORSE! It doesn’t hurt him, it won’t ruin his feet, and he won’t be sore footed. You want to ride and show him, then shoe him. If you want to make it more important to go with no shoes, then what you have is what you get.

[JB]

@Kyrabee;7186221

Yes…2 cycles and still sore. Something is wrong in the trim.

We don’t know it’s the trim. For all we know, it is the internal structures of the foot. It might be the horse is getting excellent trimming with this new person, but there is so much to fix and get healthy that it is simply not there yet.

A horse with no significant pathology shouldn’t be sore 2 months down the line.

But we don’t know there isn’t pathology. The OP said the “previous farrier was not leaving the best looking hoof,” Of course, we don’t know what that means either, though IME, when someone finally recognizes things are wonky, they usually are. However, also IME things can look wonky because of internal pathologies that force the foot to look less than textbook and can never be made pretty

[QUOTE=Wirt;7186317]Your horse was fine until you stopped shoeing him.
[/quote]

We only know the horse wasn’t (obviously) sore. We don’t know the feet were fine, we don’t know that whatever the OP is seeing as “not the best looking hoof” won’t lead to lameness down the road if left as-is. My point is - just because a horse is “fine” now, doesn’t mean things are fine

Use your head. He needs to be shod. End of story. If you don’t like the job that shoer was doing, get a different shoer. Just shoe your horse and get on with things. To stop shoeing him because the farrier re-set the shoes,

You don’t know what the re-set shoes looked like. Yes, some farriers DO eek every last mm of use out of every shoe, whether it’s good for the horse or not, to save themselves money. We haven’t seen the shoe, so we don’t know what the issue is with “reusing worn shoes”. The OP also seems to think the feet are not being trimmed properly. Pictures would help a LOT for this discussion

only means it is you who is not educated. It is perfectly fine to re-set at least once.

But, you are assuming that the OP is seeing mildly worn shoes that have every right to be re-used

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHOEING YOUR HORSE! It doesn’t hurt him, it won’t ruin his feet, and he won’t be sore footed. You want to ride and show him, then shoe him. If you want to make it more important to go with no shoes, then what you have is what you get.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with shoes, IF the trim is good and the appropriate shoe is put on appropriately.

Not seeing pictures, nobody here can speak to the quality of work we’d like to assume is being done

[alto]

[QUOTE=JB;7186537]

You don’t know what the re-set shoes looked like. Yes, some farriers DO eek every last mm of use out of every shoe, whether it’s good for the horse or not, to save themselves money. We haven’t seen the shoe, so we don’t know what the issue is with “reusing worn shoes”. The OP also seems to think the feet are not being trimmed properly. Pictures would help a LOT for this discussion :)[/QUOTE]

How would this save the farrier money farriers I’ve used, charge a significant discount if re-setting.

In some areas, farrier selection is very limited, the “good” guy may have a l.o.n.g wait list or not even accept new clients without a referral (from an existing client) - I can completely understand OP’s desire to remain with a farrier that seems to be doing a good job, but if horse is sore, she needs to address that issue separately.

[sunhawk]

Ugly feet in shoes that the horse is sound in as opposed to sore and unrideable?
I have been shoeing horses for a long loong time, and I do barefoot trims, have been studying different barefoot theories for years now, have some successful barefoot clients with wonderful looking feet. My own horses are shod, get periods of barefoot because I believe that horses in shoes need some time without them, but if horses are sore, I do something about it. If horses are pussy footing around with sore feet, there is ongoing inflamation, and bruising and rebruising doesn’t fix the problem. Get some support on that horse, get those soles off the ground. Take in mind too that when horses are sore in their feet, they are going to be tense in their back and hindquarters to shift weight, and often end up needing some bodywork.

[rabicon]

Also remember that as you move up the levels (not so much at lower levels) a horse shoed on the back is helpful for more push from behind because they have protection and usually are more comfortable. My old barrel racer had to be shoed behind because he’d push so hard off behind around a barrel he would bruise his soles and this was in nice sand footing.

[JB]

@alto;7186552

How would this save the farrier money farriers I’ve used, charge a significant discount if re-setting.

There are farriers who charge the same, no matter what. When my gelding was in shoes, it was $95 whether it was new shoes or a reuse. He wasn’t the only one, by far, to do that. I don’t know if he was taking a little hit on that cost when he used new shoes (though I HIGHLY doubt it), and was making up the difference in the re-use of the same ones, and it just made bookkeeping easier to charge the same thing each time. I just know it was always the same, and he was not remotely the only one, as the farrier I switched to did the same thing

In some areas, farrier selection is very limited, the “good” guy may have a l.o.n.g wait list or not even accept new clients without a referral (from an existing client) - I can completely understand OP’s desire to remain with a farrier that seems to be doing a good job, but if horse is sore, she needs to address that issue separately.

Absolutely - soreness has to be addressed, period. If the only current option is to go back to the old farrier, to put shoes back on, then you do that, to at least make the horse (more) comfortable, while you work on an alternative situation. I went back to check, and don’t see anything that says the original farrier is or is not a current option. I also can’t figure out if the current person is a trimmer or farrier, as both are used, though 'specializes in barefoot" makes me think it’s a farrier, but the comment about “but said barefoot will make him sounder longer” (paraphrased) makes me think it’s a trimmer. So…

But yes, something needs to be done, now. It’s been too long for him to still be sore.

[trubandloki]

I do not think there is anything nefarious with a farrier that charges the same for reset and new shoes. My farrier does that. He said he started doing this so people would not try to get him to reset a set of shoes that were too worn to save money.

I found he was more likely to replace shoes than reset. More than once I thought he could reset for one more cycle and he chose new because he would rather do new and know they are going to be fine and squeak by and there may be a problem.

[merrygoround]

You are paying a farrier for the quality of the trimming and balancing that happens before the shoe goes on, along with the fitting and proper nailing of that shoe.

New shoes on a bad trim and and an off balance horse are no bargain.

[Dressagelvr]

that someone would allow a horse to be lame for an entire year before putting the shoes back on is just crazy.

Your horse has told you that barefoot doesn’t work for him. I’m not sure why you feel the need to seek further advice, but since you have, I’ll keep it simple: put the shoes back on.

[Foxtrot_s]

Some horses that are ‘ok’ barefoot will move more confidently and bolder when shod, and this will show up in his dressage scores. Fronts only are ok for some, like mine for trails, but hinds will give him something to work off…for dressage.

[rabicon]

My farrier resets shoes on my horse that has corrective shoeing. Usually once and then we have to get a new set. One reason being that it is forged to him with pads cut and nailed into the shoe itself so it saves a lot of work and really not a big deal because the shoes look great. Last time he was out I asked are you going to reuse and he showed me the shoe and said no or he will be able to slice you with the front (as a joke) because the were getting thin and 5 more weeks would have not been doable. He is not out to be lazy he will do it if it needs it but I see no problem with it. He hot shoes my shoed horses every time and the one with regular shoes he always puts on new ones. My old show horse was shoed his whole life. When I retired him we pulled the shoes. He was sensitive a few days and then was fine. I say 2 months is just way to long. There is something else going in there and have someone else look at him.

If you post your area I’m sure someone could help you in referring a really good farrier in your area possibly.

[RA12]

I do appreciate and respect everyone’s comments here. I definitely have moved my horse to a different field that will be easier on him and have given him time off. I do have another farrier coming out for a second opinion, who does shoe if the horse/owner requires it, but also specializes in barefoot trims. (Not to mention, I have the equine chiropractor visiting this weekend as well). I do honestly, want to ensure that my horse is extremely comfortable and happy. He comes first.

[_DQ]

I transitioned my PSG/I1 horse to barefoot last winter. I was rewarded with an average 3-4% increase in scores and a happy, sound horse the whole way through the transition. On iffy footing at shows he wears his Soft-ride boots, and while travelling they are on too. While riding he is not in boots, as the footing is good (and if it’s not, I dont ride him). Now that he is 100% on unshod hoof from top to bottom, he is comfortable being ridden over gravel and hacking on various different footing with no soreness.

You must be very careful about the footing AND about the quality of the trim!! Having tried barefoot once before with a less skilled farrier - it did not go well. Current farrier has the feet in tip top shape with a great balanced trim - with or without shoes!! It is just easier to keep the heels from under-running while barefoot and reduces the need to see the farrier every 3-4 weeks, not to mention the benefit on the pocketbook and time saving of a 20 minute trim!
Be very picky about your farrier’s work and always ask “why” and if the farrier doesn’t like it - get a new farrier. A learned farrier will be willing to explain what they know and have learned and will educate you on the feet. “I don’t know” is even an OK answer!! As long as they come back next time with an “I read/heard/asked about this and this is what I got”. It is also helpful to educate yourself by reading and educate yourself on what a good trim is and isn’t. I always look at the horse’s feet at every barn and find out the farrier and mentally file it away.
It might be that the horse CAN do barefoot - but currently needs a good farrier and shoes in order to rehabilitate the foot before such a drastic change is made.

Good luck!

[Kyzteke]

There was an article in Dressage Today mag afew months ago about Shannon & Steffen Peters and their adventures in keeping their horses barefoot. Apparently it started with Shannon’s I-1 horse, who goes much better barefoot, then when Ravel developed a quarter crack, Shannon convinced Steffen to try the same with him. Now (per the article) most of the barn is barefoot.

But when folks say “barefoot” they aren’t usually talking about the horse not having any protection all the time. You are always using boots or glue-on, even after the horse has “transitioned”. And the “transition” should take about 5 mins…about the time it takes to pull the shoes, do a new trim and fit them for boots.

The article makes the point that these horses are also handwalked on pea-gravel as well as being trimmed every 4-5wks. Boots of some kind are used any time the horse is under saddle except they are pulled just before they go in the ring for competition (because they aren’t legal).

Ravel was barefoot during the Olympics right up till the time of his performances, when they put aluminum shoes on him, which were pulled right afterwards. And he did keep regular shoes on the rear.

It’s a lengthy article with alot of good info.

To the OP: I suspect your farrier isn’t doing a very good job. And you need either new boots or a different kind…if they are the right boot and properly fitted they don’t come off easily. This last year the top 4 finishers in the Tevis rode booted horses…that’s 100 miles over some very serious terrain, so I’m guessing the boots should stay on your horse while he wanders around the pasture.

But he shouldn’t NEED boots unless the pasture is horrific. And I agree with those who say NO horse should be gimpy after this long unless either the farrier doesn’t have a clue what they are really doing…and #2, the horse is one of those that just needs shoes most of the time.

Lastly, you need to support the hoof nutritionally as well…he should be a really good supplement, but expect not to see the results for 6-8 mos.

Read the article in Dressage Today (go to their online site and search)…maybe it will give you some ideas.

Meanwhile, put some shoes on your guy till you get this figured out. Otherwise it’s just mean…