Ever watched a horse work & work the boot until it was trashed & then comes off easily :sigh:
Well, I think all horses are individuals. My mare did well barefoot until she hit first level. Then, because of her needs, I put shoes on her because she needed them. She had shoes through showing fourth level and training FEI. I bred her and pulled the shoes for two years. She was restarted barefoot but it became clear that to get back to comfort showing second level for her new person, she needed shoes. We put shoes back on and she hasn’t taken a lame step since. We listened to the horse. My current gelding was barefoot up until last week. He was looking uncomfy in his feet (says fellow riders and a trainer) and I had a farrier come out and evaluate him. We discussed his hoof conformation, his leg angles, his overall conformation, and where he needed support. We talked about leaving him barefoot and shoeing him. We ultimately decided to shoe him. My vet looked at him 2 days later and praised the shoeing job (I recounted all of our issues and she did a full exam on him). He’s going much better with the specific support offered by my shoer (and he has weird angles). If I could keep my horses barefoot all the time, it’s best on my wallet (!!!). But the horse tells you what they want and need, and you just have to go with it.
Both my OTTBs are barefoot. They both transitioned quite well actually. Ouchy on gravel or hard ground, but totally fine in the good footing of the arena from day one. One of them did blast a horrible abscess a few weeks after pulling the shoes, but it’s been fine ever since. They’ve both been barefoot 2+ years now. One does 1st level dressage and one events at the Novice level.
My farrier works for one of Shannon Peters’ clients here. Shoes came off some horses and things didn’t always go well. But they didn’t write about those horses for the magazine.
Then there are the horses who for whatever reason do poorly in shoes. My horse had hooves which were getting worse and worse, and I tend to believe going barefoot may have helped more than anything simply because he can be trimmed more frequently and there’s no question his toes grow far faster than his heels.
As for why his soles are better now than when he was in shoes - that is up to debate, and I would like to see scientific studies I believed used good scientific method which show barefoot does or doesn’t help there once and for all.
My horse would go lame every time he stepped on a dirt clod thicker than his shoes, which combined with poor angles and chipping hoof wall to make me want to try barefoot. I still ride him in boots often - if his hooves get wet at all, they’re softer, and I use the boots, but when it’s been dry for a while he’s totally fine working hard without boots. He is a wimp about his hooves and will not break from a slow walk if they are bothering him - and runs and bucks around his pen all the time. But transitioning to getting his hooves where I would like them to be is a long period for us. Even if he’s already more comfortable than he was with shoes. Hind hooves have never been a problem, though he’s never had hind shoes for much more than a year at a time, and a total of about three years in his life, I think.
I will say this area lacks many very good, very well trained farriers like the ones I read about in other places. For some reason there seem to be more trained barefoot trimmers who really study techniques in the area. And yes, I suspect that’s part of the equation when it comes to my horse as well.
This horse (previously shod) has been competing successfully barefoot @ the upper levels: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5A_PcMMqGSM
From my understanding, the horse was having some hoof problems until the shoes came off, and is now moving better than ever.
A good trimmer is a good trimmer, whether or not he is also a farrier! I tend to distrust someone who is an evangelist for his favorite theory. I prefer someone who is experienced and knowledgeable and able to give an educated opinion regarding each particular horse he works with That said, my horse is barefoot, has not needed shoes to this point. Farrier/trimmer does not pare the soles or cut the bars back (‘they are there for a reason’). He works for several big name dressage trainers in this area, shoes some of their horses, leaves others barefoot, and doesn’t hesitate to give excellent reasons for his recommendations.
In OP’s situation, I would definitely investigate WHY the horse continues to be sore. Has the vet been consulted?
When a horse is shod, the farrier can “clean up” the hoof- take off sole, carve out the frog, yeah, looks good. That’s because the shoe itself lifts the foot off the ground so that the sole no longer makes contact. A shod hoof can be a “pretty” hoof.
But a barefoot hoof doesn’t look pretty- at least it shouldn’t. That’s because an unshod hoof can’t lose any sole or frog, and after a little while, the bottom of the foot just ain’t purty anymore- flaking sole, pieces of loose frog, etc. This is NORMAL and furthermore, it’s what a horses’s hoof SHOULD look like. trimmed hooves only take off wall, because in almost all horses the foot grows more toe than heel, and since they aren’t mustangs and actually get CARE, we take care of the foot of the horse.
How much a trim can “pretty up” a foot depends a lot on how much the horse weighs. My mares, who are honking big warmblood girls, can’t lose a piece of sole or frog, or they are super tender. I live with it, because keeping them happy matters a whole lot more to me than a “pretty” foot. The wall will crack and flake off too between trimmings- that is also normal.
My farrier has actually lost clients because he didn’t leave the foot “pretty” enough. You sound like one of those ignorants. You need to learn a whole lot more about what a farrier does, and what a good trim/shoeing job looks like.
And furthermore, as has been pointed out here by many others, not all horses can go barefoot, period. I have a 4 year old that could not grow enough foot to stand up to the work, and needed shoes. Of course I would prefer to keep him barefoot, but not if it’s going to make him sore! Shoes properly fitted do not hurt a horse in any way.
My GP horse has gone back and forth in his career between unshod and shod. He has wonderful feet, but it depends on the work load, weather, and time of year as to whether he’s comfy or not shoeless. You adapt to his needs.
If you need a farrier, check out the AFA website and see who is certified in your area. That’s the place to start. Even if they aren’t taking on clients, they can give you recommendations of others to call. I prefer AFA certified farriers, but not everyone has the time and money to get certified. My current farrier is a gem and he isn’t certified. Another resource is your local vet- mine keeps a list of farriers they recommend.
[QUOTE=alto;7189140]
Ever watched a horse work & work the boot until it was trashed & then comes off easily :sigh:[/QUOTE]
Again, I have to say: the RIGHT boot that is fitted [B]CORRECTLY.
[/B]Often this takes alot of trial and error and trying many different brands/sizes/styles of boots. And it is true that there is the odd horse who is difficult to fit. But again I need to point out that the Tevis is no walk in the park in terms of terrain and those horses are moving out most of the time through swamps/rocks/sand, etc.
The endurance world is one where you see a great number of competitors in boots or glue-ons and we’re talking top riders here…so if they can stay on in these cases, I have to think they could stay on a dressage horse working in an arena.
Of course, if the horse is moving improperly (interfering) then it will pop off…but then the problem is more with the horse than the boot.
And if you are talking about the horse actually biting or chewing on the boot(s)…well, that is where training and hot pepper sauce come in…
This doesn’t make sense. Have you never seen a foot that has worked for a while on bluestone footing, which wore away exfoliating sole, leaving a nice “clean” sole? Not all frogs get loose flaps all the time. Take a look at some endurance horses’ feet after a ride - I’ve seen plenty of pictures of soles that are very clean, bit fat “smooth” frogs, no exfoliating sold sitting there looking all crackled.
This is NORMAL and furthermore, it’s what a horses’s hoof SHOULD look like.
Doesn’t what a foot looks like depend on the footing he is working in a lot?
When I got my horse she had shoes. First time the farrier was out I had her trimmed and the shoes were not replaced, because she is a Morgan with big black feet and a thick hoof wall. She was not sore, even the next day. If my horse were still lame this long after trying to make him go barefoot I would definitely put shoes back on him, maybe try a diet switch and try to go barefoot again next year. But obviously not all horses can/should go barefoot.
[QUOTE=RA12;7186925]
I do appreciate and respect everyone’s comments here. I definitely have moved my horse to a different field that will be easier on him and have given him time off. I do have another farrier coming out for a second opinion, who does shoe if the horse/owner requires it, but also specializes in barefoot trims. (Not to mention, I have the equine chiropractor visiting this weekend as well). I do honestly, want to ensure that my horse is extremely comfortable and happy. He comes first.[/QUOTE]
You are the owner. You determine the level and quality of husbandry. You decide how much pain you are willing to inflict upon your horse (and upon your wallet) while you make your management decisions.
Folks sometimes consider this a harsh judgement, and maybe it is. But I’ve got a lot of “heartburn” with allowing a horse to hobble around in constant pain while it “toughens up.” I’ve never really bought the “it takes a lot of time” argument based upon the fact that for more than 25 years we’ve taken shoes on and off horses and never, as in NEVER, had a “transition” period of more than a few days. This has been with Walkers, TBs, QHs, Mangalarga Marchadors, and many other blooded and grade horses.
You make the call.
G.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7188981]
There was an article in Dressage Today mag afew months ago about Shannon & Steffen Peters and their adventures in keeping their horses barefoot. [/QUOTE]
Ha! Found the article for those interested in reading it:
http://www.hoofrehab.com/Medium_DresageTodayFeb2013Article.pdf
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7190788]
And if you are talking about the horse actually biting or chewing on the boot(s)…well, that is where training and hot pepper sauce come in…:D[/QUOTE]
He cared more about boot OFF than anything else … he spent a lot of time on pasture “rest”
[QUOTE=merrygoround;7185617]
EmilyF-Quote"-In an ideal world the diet would be rectified at least 6 weeks before a horse was taken out of shoes - so it had the best chance of transitioning without soreness."
Six weeks? Try 9 months.[/QUOTE]
She said:
‘‘At least 6 weeks’’.
[QUOTE=AZ Native;7191263]
She said:
‘‘At least 6 weeks’’.[/QUOTE]
6 weeks barely puts 1/4" of new growth on and isn’t remotely going to affect what’s at or near the ground. “at least 3 months” would have been closer, but “at least 6 months” would have been better.
“at least 6 weeks” doesn’t begin to address anything, that’s what she was trying to say.
[QUOTE=JB;7191466]
6 weeks barely puts 1/4" of new growth on and isn’t remotely going to affect what’s at or near the ground. “at least 3 months” would have been closer, but “at least 6 months” would have been better.
“at least 6 weeks” doesn’t begin to address anything, that’s what she was trying to say.[/QUOTE]
I did say at least 6 weeks, and that would be for a hoof in good condition to start with. Other factors will play into the length of time you would need to implement dietary changes - how bad the original diet was, the quality of the existing hoof, the facilities the owner has for the transition period etc. All this should be discussed with a competent hoof professional who is actually looking at your horse - speculation on a forum won’t help much.
The trouble with stating that you need ‘x’ amount of new growth before you transition doesn’t help either - 1 inch of poor quality regrowth won’t help the horse much, but 1/4 inch of good growth might.
No horse should be left sore for a length of time when the shoes are pulled. If after 1 cycle its not improved then you need to make the horse comfortable before you do anything else - by whatever means work for you, diet, management, boots, pads, shoes etc. If the horse isn’t comfortable then it won’t land heel first (on a flat surface) and it won’t be building up the correct structures in the hoof to enable it to cope long term without shoes so you’ll just be in a negative spiral.
