Barefoot people, please check my eye

[Alterration]

I think I’m going to swallow my nerves, take some Advil and just start rasping a little at a time in the short term while I look for someone else. The tricky part is that I have a second horse with a significant club and whacky legs that is definitely not rookie trimmer material. But I suppose it can’t hurt that one to just keep him trimmed in the short term while I try to look for someone that might get it.

His feet are changing pretty rapidly now that they are out of the shoes and I think this latest approach to the thrush is clearing up nicely.

He’s walking sounder already. Only the big booger (larger sharp gravel) rocks are getting him at this point.

I’m sure I can do this if I can have him stand in small doses. I can’t put a hoof between my legs, not with my back, but it’s an opportunity to have him learn to be a bit more patient with the whole idea. He’s already better with me handling his feet for longer so I think they do hurt less.

Initially when I started squirting the grooms hand in he’d yank the foot pretty quickly. And this is a horse that offers his feet to be picked out, so it isn’t a general “unwillingness”.

Today he let me treat both in a very leisurely fashion, offering up his hooves for me, while loose in the paddock.

[IPEsq]

I think what you were describing is deep thrush on a contracted foot. Having him barefoot should help spread the heels some so that can be addressed easier. I’m seeing some white line separation and the heels are still too long. You need to trim more to fix those issues or you will continue to get separation and have trouble getting at the thrush. You can’t compensate for lack of concavity by leaving the heels so long, though at least they look taller and not crushed at this time. I think even if you don’t have club foot or laminitis issues, getting X-rays will let you know if you have P3 sinking and/or thin soles.

[rulex]

@Alterration

He’s walking sounder already. Only the big booger (larger sharp gravel) rocks are getting him at this point.

I recently saw someone introduce some terminology new to me when talking about how horses are moving, particularly when transitioning to barefoot: Feely, Footy, Sore, Lame.

I think the nuance can be really helpful. If only the larger sharp gravel is causing him discomfort then he’s probably more on the feely/footy end of things which is pretty normal during a transition to barefoot. Definitely something to keep an eye on, but not necessarily full blown lameness.

[Alterration]

@IPEsq

I think what you were describing is deep thrush on a contracted foot. Having him barefoot should help spread the heels some so that can be addressed easier. I’m seeing some white line separation and the heels are still too long. You need to trim more to fix those issues or you will continue to get separation and have trouble getting at the thrush. You can’t compensate for lack of concavity by leaving the heels so long, though at least they look taller and not crushed at this time. I think even if you don’t have club foot or laminitis issues, getting X-rays will let you know if you have P3 sinking and/or thin soles.

Agreed. Yes, I’m going to trim his heels back as this is how he was left by the farrier (I mean, 3 weeks in, but still…3 weeks shouldn’t have resulted in a ton of growth - he isn’t on grass…). I’m assuming that between that and continuing to treat the thrush we should be able to get those heels to decontract. I’m also going to put a bit of a roll on it so that we don’t have any more massive accidental chipping and can just get into wear.

I can’t imagine why we’d have P3 sinking. He’s never been actively lame. No laminitis events. His insulin-resistance tendencies have been carefully managed. He’s not on grass.

Thin soles would seem to go hand-in-hand with the contraction and thrush issues right? He shouldn’t have a congenital thin sole, this horse has hair and horn like you wouldn’t believe (he’s double-maned and it’s thick and wiry). He was barefoot before all of this occurred with nary a sole issue.

The farrier, FWIW, said he had a nice sole depth so now I’m really confused.

[Alterration]

That is exactly it. He’s footy. Or maybe feely.

No head bob. No lameness. Just a little shorter strided than normal and a little less hard on the ground.

I’d expect some too.

Interestingly, I took my DSLD horse out of shoes for about two years before we euthanized him. You would have NEVER thought that this horse could go barefoot. Small, contracted, white, QH-awful feet. He was the kind you’d expect poor hoof quality out of because he had a thin mane/tail. He was feely/footy for quite a long while. But his feet remodeled on the track and actually he did quite well before the DSLD got too bad.

[IPEsq]

Sinking or thin soles isn’t the same as rotation or laminitis. I had it happen to a horse when he was just on stall rest for a while but was otherwise healthy.

The pictures aren’t great, but if you have never xrayed, you don’t really know what’s going on. I am not seeing signs of a lot of sole from your photos, personally. Having hard feet that grow fast also doesn’t necessarily mean there is a lot of sole.

There will be less chipping if the white line stretching is fixed, if he doesn’t have a tendency towards crumbly horn in general.

But I guess I’m also not following you, because in the beginning you suspected he’s got chronic inflammation in his feet making him difficult to shoe, but now you say he has great hoof quality.

[Alterration]

Sorry - I know I’m not being super clear.

Here is a slightly better picture of the bottom of the hoof. Not great because I didn’t have a wire brush to get the hard dried chat out - that stuff is basically cement. The hoof brush did nothing for it.

I think the problem with his feet is concentrated in the frog, due to the thrush. I do not think it’s overall inflammation beyond the thrush.

The stuff in the back of the frog was some hay that got stuck in it when i brought him in. It’s only moist because I had just piped in some groom’s hand gel - the foot was dry otherwise prior to me squirting that in there.

I was able to take a few swipes with the rasp today. His feet are HARD. I do need a more manageable rasp. I am fairly sure I rasped more off of my forearms than I did off his heels.

I’d show you an after, but I was bleeding a little and he was done with me. He is a very impatient fellow, and the flies were bad even after bathing him basically in fly spray.

I still see a heel that is slightly higher on the side closer to my hand (left).

I’m going to try scrubbing his feet next time so I can make it clearer.

[beowulf]

If his feet are hard try soaking them for 10-15m or turning him out in the am when there’s still dew in the grass (if he can have grass). It’ll soften up his feet and make it easier to trim.

I’d keep treating for the thrush as you are, and work on rasping back a little a week. He’s footy because he has no support from his contracted heels and the sole has stretched thin. Map his his hoof with EPLO to get started. Rads may not be a bad idea.

[rulex]

@Alterration

That is exactly it. He’s footy. Or maybe feely.

No head bob. No lameness. Just a little shorter strided than normal and a little less hard on the ground.

I’d expect some too.

And does he have a soft conformable surface to hang out on where he is more comfortable?

A new sharp rasp will help. Or even nippers if you are comfortable using them.

[Alterration]

He does. They can go in the run-in, which has straw bedding, and there are two areas of softer sand/dirt mix to stand in if need be.

I don’t think he is terribly uncomfortable (except when he steps on a sharper rock). I just want his feet to be healthy and back to where he was (or better) before this whole ordeal!

[IPEsq]

The frog in that view confirms contracted heels. This can make the collateral grooves appear deeper which normally indicates more sole depth, but because of the contraction of the frog, I wouldn’t trust that.

[Alterration]

I agree.

Here’s the gravel he is footy on. Lots of “booger” rocks to get him. That’s 60% of the track, with a small section of dirt and another small section of grass.

Bottom line is that I strongly believe the issue lies at the back of the foot. Between the thrush and the contraction, I think we have a cycle that needs to be broken. I don’t see how he can build sole if that frog isn’t getting adequate stimulation nor being functional.

[Kyrabee]

@Alterration

I was able to take a few swipes with the rasp today. His feet are HARD.

Oh yeah…my horses feet are super hard. This is high desert plus we are almost 2 inches short of our average rainfall for the year (less than 3 inches so far for the YEAR). I finally think I discovered the trick? I have been doing my horse since my trimmer retired a couple years ago.
What I finally discovered…don’t put too much pressure on the rasp. It will just bounce instead of filing, especially on these hard dry feet. Just let it glide over the hoof. Hard to describe but play with the pressure you exert a little bit.

I use hoof boots on my horse so I have to do her fairly often as the boots I have now aren’t very forgiving of growth . My horses feet do fine without boots but damned, it is so hard and dry, she would definitely wear more than she grows if I didn’t boot her for work. I think protection is a good thing and we ended up with boots because she was such a bi*#& to shoe (17 years ago…the last time she had shoes on). She might be better now but I don’t mind fussing with boots every day (6-8 months of the year…we eventually get some rain) and having control of her feet however often I might need to tweak something.

[JB]

@IPEsq

Sinking or thin soles isn’t the same as rotation or laminitis.

Laminitis doesn’t usually cause sinking, but it can if it’s catastrophic enough that the entire lamina connection is compromised, or it’s lower grade but chronic enough that things just slowly sink because the connection just isn’t healthy enough.

Most laminitis results in rotation if it’s going to cause any sort of founder. Sometimes, it causes sinking. Long term chronic laminitis can cause thinning soles as well.

@IPEsq

The frog in that view confirms contracted heels. This can make the collateral grooves appear deeper which normally indicates more sole depth, but because of the contraction of the frog, I wouldn’t trust that.

Agree.

Also, a better indicator of excess sole thickness (ie more dead sole than may seem evident) is how deep the groove is around the apex of the frog. There should be very light height of sole above where the tip of the frog joins the sole. If you see a ledge, rather than a gradual slope, there’s excess sole