Barehoofin?

[ShandyB]

Hello there I have a barefoot horse whose feet are a bit delicate. After every trim, he is very tenderfooted for at least a few days, and won’t walk on any type of hard ground. Usually he is completely fine within a week or two, but this past trimming cycle, he still won’t walk on the gravel/dirt road that leads from his pasture to the barn. He cannot currently be shod because he requires a shot of drugs and/or a twitch in order to not kick in the farrier’s head (he is getting better, though).

Anyway, I wanted to give a hoof hardener a try, but don’t want to shell out the $50 for a bottle of Keratex when I’m not certain of the results. I’m thinking of trying Durasole, but I recently found something called Barfehoofin, and I was wondering if anyone has tried it, and to what result.
http://www.bigdweb.com/Barehoofin-8oz/productinfo/8779/

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=ShandyB;8474687]
Hello there I have a barefoot horse whose feet are a bit delicate. After every trim, he is very tenderfooted for at least a few days, and won’t walk on any type of hard ground. Usually he is completely fine within a week or two, but this past trimming cycle, he still won’t walk on the gravel/dirt road that leads from his pasture to the barn. He cannot currently be shod because he requires a shot of drugs and/or a twitch in order to not kick in the farrier’s head (he is getting better, though).

Anyway, I wanted to give a hoof hardener a try, but don’t want to shell out the $50 for a bottle of Keratex when I’m not certain of the results. I’m thinking of trying Durasole, but I recently found something called Barfehoofin, and I was wondering if anyone has tried it, and to what result.
http://www.bigdweb.com/Barehoofin-8oz/productinfo/8779/[/QUOTE]

Following because I’ve wondered the same about that product. I love a lot of Cox Lab’s products. However, a plug for keratex…I bought a bottle on April 5th, the day I brought my OTTB home. I’ve still got some left, 9 months later. I used it pretty regularly during the summer due to how wet it gets here in Florida. Worth the $50 when it lasts nearly a year! Literally fill the cap up, and it will do all 4 feet with juice to spare!

[kashmere]

I haven’t used Barehoofin, but I’ve had good luck with Hooflex.

[PlanB]

I’ve had good results with venice turpentine

[ohmissbrittany]

I love keratex.

But really your horse shouldn’t be sore after EVERY trim. Do you have any pictures? My first guess is that the trimmer digs out too much sole (common), and sometimes even a tiny bit of thrush can make them sore at the back of the foot (also common). Have you tried White Lightning? It really helped my horse shed retained sole and get comfy on her frog, I use it every other month or so.

[mountainhorse]

Have not used or heard of results from Barehoofin, but I do use Keratex Hoof Hardener, and it does a good job.
Another note, ask your farrier if he is paring the sole-if so, discuss him leaving the sole alone-sometimes that little change can fix the ‘ouchy’ wait time after a trim.

[Scribbler]

Totally different products, for different enivronments and different problems.

Keratex and Durasole are formeldahyde products that work by preserving and hardening the existing hoof material so it doesn’t wear off as fast. The idea is that the sole will then build up, because it doesn’t wear off.

Hooflex is an oil-based moisturizer. The idea is that the hoof will not break as much because it is more flexible.

White Lightning is a chlorine-based disinfectant that has the power to fume up into crevices of a horse’s hooves, hence its usefulness in treating white line disease, and thrush. It is said to be less damaging to tissue than regular bleach.

Venice turpentine dries and hardens the feet.

The link to Barehoofin’ says nothing about what is actually in the product.

So it is pretty much impossible to make a guess as to how it would actually work.

Can you get a list of ingredients from the manufacturer?

[Scribbler]

To figure out what product is going to work, you would need to find out what the cause is.

If your farrier is indeed taking off too much sole, then using keratex or durasole to retain sole wouldn’t help, because your farrier would just carve out the retained sole.

You don’t want to use a hoof moisturizer in a wet climate or a drying product in a dry one.

I’ve also seen horses get sore after a trim if the angles of the foot have been changed. Sometimes their feet can actually get a bit hot and inflamed. I suppose that is in fact a type of mild laminitic episode, though it passes quickly and doesn’t lead to any changes in the foot.

However, the horse should not be sore for this long after a trim, in fact should not be sore at all after a trim. How long are you going between trims? Perhaps you need to get him on a shorter trim cycle so that there is less change after each trim. Perhaps you need to look at the angles of his feet.

And maybe you do need a new farrier. Ideally, you want a trained farrier who has also expertise and interest in barefoot horses. Not a farrier who is just preparing the foot as if a shoe is going on, and not a self-trained barefoot trimmer.

Also, is there an underlying, serious cause, such as navicular or a bit of founder rotation or something that is being activated every time the angles of his feet change?

And finally: hoof boots, at least for the front feet.

[ShandyB]

ohmissbrittany-No pictures at the moment, but he will get trimmed again on Tuesday. Not sure how much the farrier takes off the sole, but I know that he generally over- rather than under- trims the hoof wall/front of the foot (this is because of aforementioned difficulty in trimming–the farrier has a small time window for working and has only recently been able to reliably trim the back feet)

I couldn’t find anything about the ingredients on Cox vet lab’s website, so I just sent them an email.

Keratex is a thin liquid, right? I suppose that explains how it lasts a while.

[ohmissbrittany]

[QUOTE=ShandyB;8474956]
ohmissbrittany-No pictures at the moment, but he will get trimmed again on Tuesday. Not sure how much the farrier takes off the sole, but I know that he generally over- rather than under- trims the hoof wall/front of the foot (this is because of aforementioned difficulty in trimming–the farrier has a small time window for working and has only recently been able to reliably trim the back feet)

I couldn’t find anything about the ingredients on Cox vet lab’s website, so I just sent them an email.

Keratex is a thin liquid, right? I suppose that explains how it lasts a while.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Keratex is a thin liquid.

And honestly, I would rather a farrier under-trim than over-trim. Making him sore every time his feet are done is probably not helping his attitude toward the farrier. My mare was LOVELY for the farrier. Then when the farrier stopped doing scuh a good job and I took her shoes off to try barefoot, she had a bad Strasser trim the first time I had her trimmed, and was sore for weeks. Then she was a righteous bitch to the next trimmer because she KNEW that the last time her feet were trimmed they freakin hurt for days. It took three trims to get my mare back to taking naps while she got her pedicures. Now she’s fine, and she is never sore after trimming.

[shamrock]

I’ve never heard of the Barehoofin’, so unfortunately can’t help you there, but I use the Keratex Hardener on my thin-soled, flat-footed TB with good success. I decided to transition him to barefoot last year. He just could not hold shoes on and it was a huge PITA. He had super crappy feet (thin walls & soles & s-l-o-w growth).

I started supplementing him with Farrier’s Formula Double Strength and using the Keratex and his feet have improved tremendously. Another thing that I find really helps is having the farrier out every three weeks. The most important thing of all for my guy is that my farrier NEVER touches his soles. If he took any sole, the horse would definitely be lame. Despite all this, he can still take an ouchy step here and there, but overall he’s been MUCH better than when we first pulled the shoes. I’m religious with this regimen.

Another precaution I have been taking lately is putting Easy Boot Trails on him for turnout. The ground here is a frozen solid, rutted mess, with no snow for cushion. The boots keep him really comfy. They are super easy to put on and stay on prefect too! Amazing boots.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[JB]

I’d say the first thing is address why he’s sore after every trim.

Usually that means the farrier/trimmer is taking too much wall. Either flat out too much wall and putting the horse on his soles, or too much wall for that particular horse - they don’t all read the textbooks on how much wall height should be left.

If he’s got flatter soles, he may well need a little more height than a horse with very concave soles.

What does your farrier say about this?

Here’s the other thing:

A horse who’s routinely sore after every trim, and won’t stand for having shoes nailed on, may well be subclinically laminitic, then hammering hurts his feet, and a fresh trim puts sore feet too close to the ground.

I’d say it’s time for xrays.

Figure out the cause so you can address it, instead of just chasing symptoms right off the bat

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=ShandyB;8474956]
ohmissbrittany-No pictures at the moment, but he will get trimmed again on Tuesday. Not sure how much the farrier takes off the sole, but I know that he generally over- rather than under- trims the hoof wall/front of the foot (this is because of aforementioned difficulty in trimming–the farrier has a small time window for working and has only recently been able to reliably trim the back feet)

I couldn’t find anything about the ingredients on Cox vet lab’s website, so I just sent them an email.

Keratex is a thin liquid, right? I suppose that explains how it lasts a while.[/QUOTE]

How about some SOAP:

Subjective: After every trim, he is very tenderfooted for at least a few days, and won’t walk on any type of hard ground. Usually he is completely fine within a week or two, but this past trimming cycle, he still won’t walk on the gravel/dirt road that leads from his pasture to the barn.

Objective: No photos so we don’t know just what the hoof looks like, nor what the trimmer is doing, nor the type of ground the horse is kept on, nor whether the horse is stalled or pasture kept. There is an objective issue of the horse being poorly trained and requiring sedation for the farrier to be able to work at all.

Assessment: Poorly trained horse. Probable over-trimming by farrier. Possible alteration of angles. Possible husbandry issues.

Plan: (1) Fire farrier and find somebody who knows what they are about.
(2) Concurrently spend some time training the horse to allow handling of the feet without resistance. This will be a substantial task as it’s probable that the horse has been suffering poor handling and farrier work for a period of time and now associates the farrier with pain. Professional help likely necessary.
(3) Plan to have the horse trimmed at very short intervals to allow the new farrier to bring the shape of the hoof back to anatomical correctness for the horse.
(4) Hand-walk the horse on the softest ground available to encourage new, healthy foot growth. In the alternative turn the horse out on a good grass pasture.
(5) Review nutrition plan and ensure the horse is getting quality forage and fodder.
(6) Determine best hoof protection system to be used during this time of transition. No option is to be disregarded, including the use of shoes.

G.

[ohmissbrittany]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8475391]

(4) Hand-walk the horse on the softest ground available to encourage new, healthy foot growth. In the alternative turn the horse out on a good grass pasture.[/QUOTE]

THIS so much. Soft pasture was a big deal. I did hand walking first on soft dirt, then packed dirt, then on smooth concrete. The Theraplate also helped- you get the growth/circulation/stimulation without forcing the horse to walk on tender toes.

[goodhors]

Since Farrier is due next week, I would put a new plan into effect, talk to the Farrier BEFORE he does anything with the horse.

I would want NO SOLE trimmed off this visit. I would not want him trimmed SHORT on the wall either, just enough to level things up. This should fall within the short working window of time horse allows hoof work done. NO CORRECTIVE trimming done, no matter what the Farrier says about turning horse toes in or out.

Take some photos of hoof sole, before and after the trim. Some from the side, before and after the trim of each hoof. I might be obnoxious enough to measure each side of hoof wall, inside and out of EACH hoof, to insure they are equal lengths. Toe length should match on each pair of feet, though fronts may not be the same length as hind hooves. That is OK. Write it down as your starting point, before the trim in horse records. Then measure again after the trim, again both sides of wall on both hoof pairs, toe lengths should be equal on each pair. If not have the Farrier do a little rasping to equal the sides on a hoof, with each pair of hooves matching the other hoof in wall and toe length measurements. Don’t let him rasp anything really short to match the other side of hoof! You are looking for balanced hooves of equal sizes, wall heights, toe lengths when the job is finished. This is ALL presuming your horse has no problems, a dished or upright hoof, non-matching pairs of hooves that have to be dealt with.

You stand right there, watch and remind Farrier NOT to take off sole, nor trim walls really short if you see the hoof knife or nippers in use. This time of year is when horse hoof grows the least, you can’t afford to lose any more hoof and sore horse up. We have horses the Farrier may just run a rasp over, smooth them up, take any nicks out, because they are not growing hoof now. Yes I pay the same as when horse is growing hoof, for the trim. I am paying Farrier for his time and expertise, keeping horse usable.

I would be rather shocked if any of our horses limped or needed ‘rest time’ after a trim to recover. That is totally unacceptable. Doesn’t happen here, Farrier knows what to remove and WHAT TO LEAVE ON when trimming or shoeing, horse is immediately able to be ridden and used, even very hard if that is on his conditioning schedule. Horse does NOT get sore after shoeing, trimming or use starting 10 minutes after Farrier put the last hoof down.

Then when your Farrier is done, jog out the horse, see if he still limps. I am thinking he should not, with no sole removal or very little to no wall shortening. Sometimes just a polish of hoof wall with the rasp is all horse hoof needs. You GOT your money’s worth, horse is not lame. Farrier doesn’t always need to leave those trimmed hoof rings to show “Farrier did his job”. Or at least I hope not.

Hope to hear better news after the planned visit by Farrier next week.

[shamrock]

Amazing post goodhors! Thank you!

[ShandyB]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Horse lives in Maryland, turned out during the day, in a stall at night. The ground has been muddy or frozen so far for the winter. Summer was all dry and hard. I will take some pictures of his hooves when I next go to the barn.

My horse definitely associates the farrier with bad things–actually a while back I wanted to switch farriers, but was overruled in favor of drugging him to get it done(looking back, I’m not sure why I gave in). Also, barn manager said once that after trimming he needs to rebuild the sole callouses, which implies they are being trimmed. What is the benefit/reason for trimming the sole in the first place?

Farrier has said that my horse wears his hooves fairly unevenly, so in order to rebalance/level them he has to trim them down some. Currently he gets a trim every six weeks. I think shorter intervals could definitely be helpful in that regard.

Also, in defense of the farrier, he also trims my barefoot mare, and I’ve never had any problem with her.

[JB]

There is no GOOD reason to trim the sole callous. It’s there for a reason - protection.

Now, an overly large callous means the breakover is too far forward, so to bring that back you’ll be rasping into it from the front, not the bottom. Huge, important difference.

That’s not a defense for a farrier - some can do just fine with horses who don’t have problems, but can’t fix or deal with horses who require more care. And IMHO if they can’t deal with horses who don’t need more care, they are a slowly allowing the good footed horses get less good. It might take a few years, but they are slipping.

[Scribbler]

Good farriers and other hoof experts will tell you that there is no real difference between a good trim for barefoot and a good time for shoes, a good trim is a good trim. That may be true, in theory.

But in practice, many farriers who are used to shoeing do not trim the same way as a farrier who is knowledgeable about barefoot trims. For one thing, they can get away with taking off more sole and wall, because the shoe will then lift the foot above the ground. Also, they may feel they need to take off more sole and wall to make the shoe fit, or to make sure the horse can go longer between trims.

Another thing that you will see with shod horses is that, over time, the heels can creep forward and be underrun, and the toes get longer. Not long as in too much wall, but long as in the whole hoof capsule appears to have slipped forward on the supporting structures. This happens if the farrier just trims down without thinking about angles.

And of course, you wouldn’t put a mustang roll on a hoof that was going to take a shoe.

Good advice here about directing the farrier, and perhaps you do need to start shopping for a new one. Your farrier does not sound like he understands what a barefoot horse needs, and if your farrier is OK with the horse being very sore after each trim, that in itself is worrying.

Your horse will not start wearing his feet evenly if he is lame.

And long term, I’d suggest as others have, using a supplement with good nutrition for hooves and checking the protein levels in the diet: alfalfa cubes, beet pulp, etc.

[JB]

Shoes have nothing to do with heels becoming underrun. That’s from incorrect trimming and/or incorrect shoeing. Trimmers do that too - not just farriers

The trimming for shoes or not is the same as far as balance goes. You’re right about some differences necessary for shoes vs not. The shod foot won’t have the wall rolled, and yes, some of the outer sole edge might have to be trimmed a bit so the shoe doesn’t put pressure on it. But beyond that, no - no carving concavity, no getting into live sole, nothing. It’s done, sure, and the horse is just protected (a bit) because the shoe lifts his sole off the ground that much, but it’s still not right.