Barisone/Kanarek Legal Filings (Public Record)

[Knights_Mom]

@IdahoRider

Okay, so I have worked with battered women in the past. And one of the issues that comes about due to the abuse (which does NOT have to be physical or come only at the hands of a romantic partner) is acute over-reactions to mundane occurrences. Or an inability to handle in a rational way a situation that someone else might find very annoying, but not life threatening.

The defense might be smart to go with that. There might be some trauma in his life that triggered PTSD from some prior relationship. If that is the case, then a lot of LK’s behavior will be used to show how he could have been triggered into a gross over-reaction. It sounds like his mother was a real piece of work. That might be fertile ground to establish trauma.

Out of all the stuff that has been written and guessed at and speculated on and argued over, the most interesting piece for me is that counter claim that has been filed in the civil case. It does not look like he is denying he shot her. He is saying there are mitigating factors that diminished his capacity to respond to her behavior in a rational way. And that he behavior contributed to his diminished capacity. She wouldn’t even necessarily need to know or suspect that her behavior was triggering him.

I don’t know how this will play out. I am certainly not in one camp or the other. But I do find the psychology of this beyond fascinating and the legal issues are right up there, too. I don’t think she should have been shot. And I don’t think that he shot her is in dispute. If it were, he would probably be out on bail right now.

The question is why. And that is just so inexplicable that it has grabbed a lot of attention in the horse world. You don’t have to be in one camp or the other to be interested. To say that is kind of ridiculous.
Sheilah

Also he is establishing he perceived a real and actual threat to his person and was concerned for his own self preservation.

It’s like if you’re getting on a naughty horse on a windy day. If you’re riding such a horse and know SOMETHING might well happen - a spook, buck, etc - then if the horse so much as trips you might instinctively snatch the reins up, where you might normally not riding a 20 year old dead broke QH on a warm day.

[eggbutt]

@Knights Mom

Also he is establishing he perceived a real and actual threat to his person and was concerned for his own self preservation.

It’s like if you’re getting on a naughty horse on a windy day. If you’re riding such a horse and know SOMETHING might well happen - a spook, buck, etc - then if the horse so much as trips you might instinctively snatch the reins up, where you might normally not riding a 20 year old dead broke QH on a warm day.

YAY!!! @Knights Mom!!! I’ve missed you. Hope all is well.

[Wind_Horse]

It’s horrifying to know that in this small sample of posters there are several rape victims. With empathy, I offer my thanks to each of you for sharing your stories.
In no way do I compare the ridiculous circumstances in this rodeo from hell to your experiences. Best wishes for healing.

In regards to LK and MB, I really think they do share similar personality traits. It’s like when two fools met. Gasoline on the fire. Neither of which would ever consider backing down or compromising. Push, push, push, from both sides. Why keep up the confrontation?
I know none of the parties involved. I’m in the camp of placing equal blame. No, LK should not have been shot.

[LilRanger]

@Ambitious Kate

Its a beautiful, and totally appropriate response. But if you think YD is going to read it, or actually understand it, other than to find some minutiea within it which she will pull out and completely twist into something you never said, and take offense at you, I’m afraid she doesn’t have the capability, according to her previous behaviour on this thread, to read for comprehension.

And she never ever apologized to you. The only reference to an apology she made was to say that she Would apologize, if only someone would explain to her why she needed to. Which isn’t an apology. Its an admission of being passively unwilling to apologize. I don’t remember if it was in reference to you.

Yes, YD’s comments on this thread are some of the most abhorent postings I’ve ever read on any bulletin board, but certainly the most disgusting on this one.

YD made a decision tree apology: if…then…which is pretty much her MO for getting to not apo-lo-gize, but then gets to say she did, didn’t you read everything?

[YankeeDuchess]

@x-halt-salute

YD, what you’ve said in this thread and others on this forum disgusts me more deeply than anything else I’ve encountered on the internet. And I’ve been on Reddit.

Your insistence on a dichotomy between well-meaning advice to women on being pro-active about safety versus victim blaming in criminal trials minimizes the experiences of the vast majority of sexual assault and rape survivors in an appalling way. If you are truly here to play the role of a victims’ advocate, that should nauseate you just as much as it does all of those who’ve spoken up about your disgraceful posts.

Your recent focus on distancing your own experience from those of women you think have made choices that make them more vulnerable to rape, like “sexy dress” or “intoxication” also belies your real interest in supporting victims in the abstract and fighting against victim blaming. You appear to have interpreted my own mention of a tank-top and a drink to mean a tight, sexy tank-top and drinking to intoxication, which again betrays your real position on blaming people for the violence perpetrated against them. No surprise there, but it does nothing but undermine your claims about supporting victims of violence in the abstract and protecting them from undeserved blame.

You say you’ve apologized to me, and perhaps you have, but if so I didn’t notice it among the pages of blathering about how I and others must misunderstand your analogy that equates speculation on this thread regarding the escalation of a two-sided conflict to victim blaming specifically in the context of criminal proceedings for rape cases. All I see is insistence that I must have misinterpreted you, and failure to respond to any of the logical arguments that have been presented against your pitiful analogy.

I expect you’ll delete your original horrid post to save face. Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a darn. I offer my perspective not because I have any interest in your attention or others’, but because what you’ve said here is inconsistent with and disrespectful to the lived experience of victims of violent assault, whose interest you claim to represent.

   I do think that one can advise women to proactively avoid making themselves vulnerable to rape by pointing out that dressing too sexy, being significantly inebriated, not having access to their own means of transportation or walking alone in a sparsely traveled place at night in order to reduce the statistical chance that they are the victim of a crime like rape AND AT THE SAME TIME say that just because they chose not to take these preventative steps does NOT mean that they are at fault or responsible for having been raped. 

    Do you think that providing advice to women on how they can proactively limit their exposure to rape, even if the advice involves, if taken, guys down on their person freedom to dress how they want, drink how they want, walk wherever they want, in and of itself constitutes victim blaming? I don’t. 

    If you think that advising a woman on proactive measures she can talk to reduce the probability that she is a victim is, in and of itself, victim blaming, that is where we disagree. 

     I have only one experience of rape, and the nature of my experience was that there was not an issue of victim blaming. I don’t really have control over the exact conditions under which I was raped. 

      I said I would delete the post, or not, as you prefer.  Until I hear from you that you would like it deleted, I will leave it.   I have apologized, several times, for misunderstanding what you were saying. 

       I still think the victim blaming of LK on this thread is analogous to victim blaming of a rape victim. I understand lots of posters don’t agree.

[FitzE]

@x-halt-salute

:lol::lol::lol:

If only there were a 5 min. argument option where YD is concerned.

Aaaand, I’m dead! :lol::lol::lol:

[Danvers]

There is yet another sociopath on this thread and that sociopath will follow and get nastier no matter how many threads are stopped or started. I was married to a sociopath and my heart is beating fast, have a sick stomach and shortness of breath reading those posts. Sorry, I don’t know how they are allowed to post on this/these boards.

[YankeeDuchess]

@YankeeDuchess

You misunderstand the point about Ghazzu naming names, is that I don’t think naming a name gets you banned, as Denali claimed.

Is this Elk person some important “cultural” reference I’m clueless about? I assumed the Elk person was a real person.
I also admit to not following the referees to the Tiger person (although I’m guessing that’s a TV show.)

I am happy to apologize if someone explains the dimension on which I misunderstood. I’m not inclined to apologize just on the basis of the whole group expressing disgust.

Despite her saying “As someone who reaped what she sowed”, I now assume (not that anyone has bothered to explain it), that she meant “In my court case, there were overt things said to the effect that the rape was at least partly due to things I did”, I.e. that she was a victim of rape and also was victim blamed.

If that is what she was saying, I apologize.

   See last sentence. Apology to Grand Prix for misunderstanding her post.

[FitzE]

@x-halt-salute

YD, what you’ve said in this thread and others on this forum disgusts me more deeply than anything else I’ve encountered on the internet. And I’ve been on Reddit.

Your insistence on a dichotomy between well-meaning advice to women on being pro-active about safety versus victim blaming in criminal trials minimizes the experiences of the vast majority of sexual assault and rape survivors in an appalling way. If you are truly here to play the role of a victims’ advocate, that should nauseate you just as much as it does all of those who’ve spoken up about your disgraceful posts.

Your recent focus on distancing your own experience from those of women you think have made choices that make them more vulnerable to rape, like “sexy dress” or “intoxication” also belies your real interest in supporting victims in the abstract and fighting against victim blaming. You appear to have interpreted my own mention of a tank-top and a drink to mean a tight, sexy tank-top and drinking to intoxication, which again betrays your real position on blaming people for the violence perpetrated against them. No surprise there, but it does nothing but undermine your claims about supporting victims of violence in the abstract and protecting them from undeserved blame.

You say you’ve apologized to me, and perhaps you have, but if so I didn’t notice it among the pages of blathering about how I and others must misunderstand your analogy that equates speculation on this thread regarding the escalation of a two-sided conflict to victim blaming specifically in the context of criminal proceedings for rape cases. All I see is insistence that I must have misinterpreted you, and failure to respond to any of the logical arguments that have been presented against your pitiful analogy.

I expect you’ll delete your original horrid post to save face. Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a darn. I offer my perspective not because I have any interest in your attention or others’, but because what you’ve said here is inconsistent with and disrespectful to the lived experience of victims of violent assault, whose interest you claim to represent.

Woman, you need to stop taking us to church or I’m going to have to tithe.

I’m just going to compliment you on your ability to be eloquent and focused while you shut down Grade A asshattery like a boss. And all while generously bringing your experience to bear in a way that helps us all (well, those open to genuine reason and wisdom) gain valuable insight into something that effects far, far too many. You have shown such grace under BS here today.

I wish you peace, the beverage of your choice tonight, and a good night’s sleep. You’ve done yeowoman’s work here today and, while the task is Sisyphean, thanks for setting things to right.

[HoolieB]

I wonder if there’s some BB wheel of fortune that is spun in order to come up with new tactics?

spin Say You’re Being Bullied
spin Say You Know Who Posters Are IRL
spin Nazi Comparison
spin Answer Question with Question
spin Apologize By Implying It’s The Poster’s Fault For Being Offended

Just wondering.

[ohnoO]

How will we know how the trial is proceeding?

Media reports?

I’m guessing it won’t be Pay-Per-View!

[eggbutt]

@HoolieB

I wonder if there’s some BB wheel of fortune that is spun in order to come up with new tactics?

spin Say You’re Being Bullied
spin Say You Know Who Posters Are IRL
spin Nazi Comparison
spin Answer Question with Question
spin Apologize By Implying It’s The Poster’s Fault For Being Offended

Just wondering.

:lol::lol::lol:

[FitzE]

@HoolieB

I wonder if there’s some BB wheel of fortune that is spun in order to come up with new tactics?

spin Say You’re Being Bullied
spin Say You Know Who Posters Are IRL
spin Nazi Comparison
spin Answer Question with Question
spin Apologize By Implying It’s The Poster’s Fault For Being Offended

Just wondering.

Honestly, now that you post this, it’s the only thing that even vaguely makes sense. Though you forgot:

spin Apology by way of, “IF x, then I apologize” scrupulously not admitting to having done x.

[eggbutt]

@ohnoO

How will we know how the trial is proceeding?

Media reports?

I’m guessing it won’t be Pay-Per-View!

Have no fear…the “threadstarter” will tell you!!!

[FitzE]

@ohnoO

How will we know how the trial is proceeding?

Media reports?

I’m guessing it won’t be Pay-Per-View!

Well, hold up. Given that lawyer’s website, pay-per-view doesn’t seem entirely off the table.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Danvers

There is yet another sociopath on this thread and that sociopath will follow and get nastier no matter how many threads are stopped or started. I was married to a sociopath and my heart is beating fast, have a sick stomach and shortness of breath reading those posts. Sorry, I don’t know how they are allowed to post on this/these boards.

All of your symptoms can occur with Covid.

[eggbutt]

Okay everyone, take a deep breath, click this link, close your eyes and recenter. (Those who “don’t bother” don’t need to participate.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

[LilRanger]

@eggbutt

Have no fear…the “threadstarter” will tell you!!!

Yay, threadstarter! Didnt Steven King write a story about you? No? Well, he shoulda done!

Threadstarter, scourge of the karkerkrek!

Ooh, that kind of makes you sound like a pirate!

[eggbutt]

@LilRanger

Yay, threadstarter! Didnt Steven King write a story about you? No? Well, he shoulda done!

Threadstarter, scourge of the karkerkrek!

Ooh, that kind of makes you sound like a pirate!

Better than a king slayer although I’d love to have a dragon.

[Gestalt]

@eggbutt

:lol::lol::lol: Imagine what the criminal prosecutor is thinking about now!

Unfortunately prosecutors have to deal with personalities that are worse than her.