Barisone/Kanarek Legal Filings (Public Record)

[YankeeDuchess]

@Knights Mom

Were there lesser included charges? I did not see any. Just Att murder and gun charges.

There was a discussion of this. I think of the charge itself, attempted first degree murder, as the biggest doll in a set of nesting Russian dolls.

 The charge of attempted first degree murder requires all the actions of attempted second degree murder, plus some evidence of planning or premeditation. So if the prosecution cannot prove the planning element, but all the elements of second degree attempted murder, including intent, are established, he could be convicted of the lesser, included cause he of attempted second degree murder. So attempted second degree murder is the next smaller doll nested inside the biggest doll. Likewise, assault with a deadly weapon would be another, smaller doll. 

   My understanding is that at the conclusion of the trial, the judge instructs the jury as to whether they can consider any of the included, lesser charges, in addition to the original charge. What’s less clear to me is who gets to propose to the judge what lesser charges are considered. 

    So while the original charge is attempted first degree murder, I think it is conceivable that the eventual verdict could be a lesser charge (one of the smaller, nested dolls) such as attempted second degree murder. In principle, it could be assault with a deadly weapon, but I think it is going to be easy for the prosecution to establish intent.

[CanteringCarrot]

I mean, if you’re going to say you worked so hard all of your life to get here, to own horses, to ride, to train, to compete, etc. Spill the beans and tell us your success story if you’re so proud of it. I, personally, like to hear how people have become successful. It can be interesting and I have respect for those who have worked hard.

[YankeeDuchess]

@FitzE

True. But when she offers up that she worked hard in her 20s to be able to faff about on horses in her 40s, she introduced the topic and follow up questions are reasonable, not intrusive. (Not that you are saying they are; just a general note about people asking her questions most of which she dodges.)

Without a windfall (inheritance, lottery, family support), the lifestyle of multiple horses in full training while owner does not work would have taken an extraordinary career in ones 20s and 30s. Fast rise through I banking, development and sale of a substantial business, that type of thing.

  The issue of Lauren not having substantial employment now and of having access to abundant funds not earned by her to support her horse activities was not “introduced” by her. It was introduced long, long ago by “anti-LK” partisans. 

 She did not “introduce the topic” as you claim; the discussion is not just a series of “follow up” questions.

[LilRanger]

@YankeeDuchess

There was a discussion of this. I think of the charge itself, attempted first degree murder, as the biggest doll in a set of nesting Russian dolls.

The charge of attempted first degree murder requires all the actions of attempted second degree murder, plus some evidence of planning or premeditation. So if the prosecution cannot prove the planning element, but all the elements of second degree attempted murder, including intent, are established, he could be convicted of the lesser, included cause he of attempted second degree murder. So attempted second degree murder is the next smaller doll nested inside the biggest doll. Likewise, assault with a deadly weapon would be another, smaller doll.

My understanding is that at the conclusion of the trial, the judge instructs the jury as to whether they can consider any of the included, lesser charges, in addition to the original charge. What’s less clear to me is who gets to propose to the judge what lesser charges are considered.

So while the original charge is attempted first degree murder, I think it is conceivable that the eventual verdict could be a lesser charge (one of the smaller, nested dolls) such as attempted second degree murder. In principle, it could be assault with a deadly weapon, but I think it is going to be easy for the prosecution to establish intent.

Are there defenses that would mitigate intent?

[cutter99]

Good afternoon all! Hope y’all are well and actively practicing self distancing today!

Just a reminder, trolls are why we cannot have nice things!

As tempting as it is to respond, we are all better off if we don’t! Let’s just let her spin, spin and spin!

[Ambitious_Kate]

@LilRanger

Are there defenses that would mitigate intent?

groan

I think we’ve all pretty much figured out how to scroll past Yankee Doodle and ignore her, and not respond to her. It’d be great if you could to that too, LilRanger.

[YankeeDuchess]

@LilRanger

Are there defenses that would mitigate intent?

 The issue of “intent to kill” is simply whether the jury believes that he pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger knowing that doing so could kill her. 

  The defense could prevent the prosecution from establishing “intent” if they could get the jurors to believe that the gun went off accidentally in a struggle, for example. There are some posters who have provided scenarios in which Barisone was holding the gun when it went off, but the shooting was accidental.

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@tryintogethere

As far as that goes, I don’t beileve he made it through Basic, so would that really make him a Marine?

NO. If you don’t make it through basic at either Paris Island MCRD (where LK’s bf would’ve gone) or San Diego MCRD, he would not be a Marine by any standard, and DEF not by Any FMF or vet. I hope he is not representing himself as such unless he’s made it through BT. They don’t like that.

[Ambitious_Kate]

@cutter99

Good afternoon all! Hope y’all are well and actively practicing self distancing today!

Just a reminder, trolls are why we cannot have nice things!

As tempting as it is to respond, we are all better off if we don’t! Let’s just let her spin, spin and spin!

Lol, Trolls are why we cannot have nice things! I like that.

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@skydy

No, it would not. It would make him an aspiring Marine that didn’t make the grade. Though he could say he “was a Marine” and be both truthful and disingenuous, unless he qualified his statement by admitting he was in boot camp for a few weeks.

No, he could NEVER say he was a Marine if he didn’t make it through boot camp. All he could say is that he was at one time a recruit.

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@LilRanger

Yes, purposefully hiring someone you know you won’t have to pay would be a total d!ck move. But apparently NJ is willing to allow a few of those to protect the other owners who are legit trying.

Maybe that’s what started this whole fiasco. Although MB seems to have been lacking in legal knowledge as far as subletting rooms.

[skydy]

@NotGrandPrixYet

No, he could NEVER say he was a Marine if he didn’t make it through boot camp. All he could say is that he was at one time a recruit.

Yes,I do realize that. I edited that post 4 times in an attempt to make myself clear before finally giving up.

[LilRanger]

@cutter99

Good afternoon all! Hope y’all are well and actively practicing self distancing today!

Just a reminder, trolls are why we cannot have nice things!

As tempting as it is to respond, we are all better off if we don’t! Let’s just let her spin, spin and spin!

Why are we better off? I promise I’m not trying to start anything, but some of the discussions with YD have been informative, for me anyway.

[NotGrandPrixYet]

“I can only hope that being this obtuse is feigned because if not…bless.”

Fitz just broke my voice box from laughing so hard. Best.Post.Ever.

[eggbutt]

@La-LaPopRider

“Without Prejudice.” Only took 2 seconds to point this very critical wording out to you. Additionally, do you not understand how civil suits work? (Rhetorical.) The only thing “denied,” was a freezing of HIS assets. His alone. And again, “without prejudice.” (You can google that.) You have way too much time on your hands. “It’s fascinating isn’t it?”

In the last thread you opened, I noticed you seem to believe Michael Barisone’s “life accomplishments,” somehow surpass mine. I have to disagree. Unless, you consider cleaning out his wife’s trust - then squandering all her money to be a “life accomplishment.” Or, elderly abuse … or … beating up a cop/resisting arrest in WPB county to also be “life accomplishments??” I must have different idea of what constitutes “life accomplishments,” since, if had none, I probably wouldn’t be able to pursue buying horses, boarding them & continuing my training in this sport - or any other. As they told me when I was 20, (my parents) - “Work hard now- play later.” And… here I am. Doing exactly what I planned since 20 yrs of age. Fascinating, isn’t it? (Even for a decades ago “NCDCTA president,” - perhaps, much like yourself?) Though, like I politely suggested to you on FB… yoga maybe? Seems like your glory days have ended long ago & this your new version of knitting?

Carry on! We were just curious as to when you, specifically, might decide to open yet another thread about me- then call ME a “narcissist.” We now have our answer- despite this counter claim NOT being “news,” or “new news,” for quite some time now. While you have all of this time on your hands, you should also google “What does a civil complaint, answer & counterclaim mean?” Or… yoga. That really would be “fascinating.” K! All done!

LK herself brings up HER apparent life’s accomplishments without giving us any insight into what those accomplishments are, which causes people to guess about how she can afford her horse lifestyle without lottery winnings, family support or some sort of employment.

[MorganSercu]

@YankeeDuchess

No, I understood that you were discussing general legal principles.

KM stated that she had personal familiarity with a case in which the property owner was awarded treble damages even though the property owner knew that the contractor was unlicensed.

I was not aware that she was practicing in NJ. But if it was a NJ case she was describing, that would seem definitive. I’m confused that a lawyer practicing in NJ, who knew personally of such a case, would need to bring in the opinion of a lawyer from another country. Presumably she knew the underlying legal principles as well.

Once again, my “obtuseness” is not feigned.

Bumping. Bolding was done by me.

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@YankeeDuchess

“Two lawyers from DIFFERENT countries”

“Contemptible behavioUr”

I said that from a previous thread that I had the impression that you were Canadian, or perhaps “not American”.

I‘m not disparaging non-American lawyers. But I think it’s useful to know the country of legal expertise of a poster who is discussing the legal situation on NJ.

You must certainly be aware that there are a lot of Brits who live in the USA and are licensed to practice here, right? Do you know how many U.S. companies are UK-based?

[YankeeDuchess]

@eggbutt

LK herself brings up HER apparent life’s accomplishments without giving us any insight into what those accomplishments are, which causes people to guess about how she can afford her horse lifestyle without lottery winnings, family support or some sort of employment.

That post is dated March 25. She did not INTRODUCE the topic, as FitzE asserted as a basis for speculating on it.

Her apparent reliance on wealth not earned by her has been brought in every single thread.

I agree with you that from what information is available, it looks like she is among the set of equestrians who have large financial resources not accrued through their own labor. I also have great respect for people who finance their riding through their own work.

But this “topic” was “introduced” by people like you who want to disparage her.

My guess is that her financial resources are family money.

[FitzE]

And so many US/UK qualified folks working throughout Asia, Africa, South America, you name it. Not only are many of us dual or more qualified, we practice outside any of the jurisdictions in which we are qualified.

[eggbutt]

@YankeeDuchess

That post is dated March 25. She did not INTRODUCE the topic, as FitzE asserted as a basis for speculating on it.

Her apparent reliance on wealth not earned by her has been brought in every single thread.

I agree with you that from what information is available, it looks like she is among the set of equestrians who large financial resources not accrued through their own labor. I also have great respect for people who finance their riding through their own work.

But this “topic” was “introduced” by people like you who want to disparage her.

My guess is that her financial resources are family money.

The quoted post is about LIFE ACCOMPLISHMENTS. I don’t particularly care where her money comes from but I do pay attention when some trash those who have accomplished goals with hard work and time in the saddle. I have never seen or heard of any significant accomplishment of LK’s - including a touted USDF Bronze Medal. But of course, that wasn’t HER fault for only being 2/3’s Bronze - oh yeah, remember, she said she had filed complaints with USEF/USDF or any other organization who would listen about how she was wronged out of getting that medal because her trainer’s GF had posted congratulations on FB so it must have been their fault she didn’t actually earn it by the established rules all others have to follow. Whatever came of that investigation?? Nothing is ever her fault. It’s always someone else to blame for everything.

And that’s enough attention for me to give YD today.