Well, that should be good enough! Lots of questions about the past. Should be fascinating for all. I didn’t think you were a psychic!
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I think some of the problem for some posters is not understanding that Complex-Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (C-PTSD), does not “show” symptoms all, or even most of the time. The symptoms occur when triggered. So a person mental status can change from minute to minute.
" People who have PTSD or complex PTSD can react to different life situations as if they are reliving their trauma."
The particular situation that triggers a person can be random and varies depending on their specific trauma history. A person can be triggered by situations, images, smells, conversations with others, and more.
This triggering can manifest as a fight-or-flight response triggered by the amygdala, responsible for processing emotions in the brain.
When this happens, a person’s brain can perceive that they are in danger, even if they are not. This is known as an amygdala hijack
and can also result in things like flashbacks, nightmares, or being easily startled." In my opinion an amygdala hijack could be the “self defense” portion of MB’s defense.
People with PTSD or complex PTSD may exhibit certain behaviors in an attempt to manage their symptoms. One of the symptoms is:
- avoiding unpleasant situations by becoming “people-pleasers”.
A people pleaser tries to make everybody happy all the time. Even if that means saying one thing to someone and something completely different to someone else.
From what I have read in the posts on this list from LaLa this sounds like what MB was attempting to do. He was trying to please his girlfriend and his client.
Insanity can come and go depending on “stress” levels a person is experiencing.
Another way to think of C-PTSD is it can also be known as causing Psychosis.
Psychosis is defined as some loss of contact with reality. I am hoping most on COTH have heard of people having a psychotic break.
A psychotic break indicates the first onset of psychotic symptoms for a person or the sudden onset of psychotic symptoms after a period of remission . Symptoms may include delusional thoughts and beliefs, auditory and visual hallucinations, and paranoia.
In the elderly Psychosis can be caused by thyroid disease, diabetes, sleep deprivation and dehydration. Now if you fix the problem - provide thyroid/diabetes medication, sleep or fluids/liquids you can fix the psychosis and then the person will be “sane”. So hopefully you understand this concept. Old person is dehydrated and acts insane. Old person is giving I/V fluids and within an hour can be sane again.
During a period of psychosis, a person’s thoughts and perceptions are disturbed and the individual may have difficulty understanding what is real and what is not. Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear).
Here is a definition of insanity:
A legal rather than a medical term, implying a disorder of the mind of such degree as to interfere with a person’s ability to be legally responsible for his or her actions. The term is little used in medicine but might equate to [PSYCHOSIS]
A defense of insanity, in law, is governed by the McNaughten Rules.
Under the M’Naghten Rule, anyone who lacked the ability to understand the wrongfulness or nature and consequences of his actions at the time.
The interesting thing about the New Jersey insanity defense is that it is entirely based on the cognitive perception of the individual’s behavior, not whether the individual had any ability to change that behavior, as is the rule in other jurisdictions.
Here is my speculation about the trial.
A person could be suffering a psychotic break when triggered by life circumstances that overwhelm them - like being threatened and having their life fall apart. The psychotic break/amygdala hijack from C-PTSD could lead to an “insanity” defense. The psychosis causes the person to have false beliefs/delusions that they are in more danger than they really are. Also called distorted thinking. This leads to “self-defense”.
Please remember, in my previous post, I explained that C-PTSD causes people who have it to act emotionally as if they are back in their childhoods. They do not reason as an adult but as a child when triggered.
So MBs lawyer could use both defenses at the same time and depending on the jury MB could be found not guilty.
Here are some links I used.
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What is the treatment?
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Personal experience has me sure this is all true. I’ve seen it manifested.
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Thank you for the interesting post. Do you know if this is also used to argue against intent? It is my understanding that the prosecution must prove intent for the 1st degree charges.
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I agree with where you are going with this. As a society, we are beginning to understand C-PSTD much better. I know people who have it, and for them part of the condition can involve disassociation, amnesia and blackouts. Especially when triggered in high stress situations. It is how the brain protects the individual.
Someone used the term “mental state” earlier as opposed to “insanity” which as term has certain connotations. But we are stuck with the language of the the law that applies to the scenario.
So reading the tea leaves…perhaps an argument is being built that demonstrates the degree to the defendant’s condition was triggered by the escalating events at the farm to the point of confrontation when the shooting occurred, and the mental state associated with the underlying condition in which it occurred. Feasibly, in that state the defendant could have believed that his life was in danger and acted on it. He could have been in a state of blackout. Who knows for sure, but this is where psychiatric evaluation comes into play. He did not deny shooting. It was “how” the shooting occurred and not the “what,”
Which thus explains the focus on the social media at the time and other patterns of harassment behaviours through texts etc. that have become apparent.
@eggbutt, to my knowledge C-PSTD is a condition that is managed though counseling and medical intervention. People who are diagnosed with it are given tools that help them with awareness and self-regulation to recognize their triggers and manage their behaviour. Of course everyone is different. And it is very complex situation and dependent on the nature of the traumatic event(s) experienced by the person and when these occurred. Young children are particularly vulnerable as they are “blueprinted.” That doesn’t mean that they can’t grow up to lead productive and fulfilling lives. It can mean though that there often are limitations or behaviours that they have to manage if they can, and this can be difficult for them and those involved with them.
Not a psychologist or medical professional. No one deserves to be shot.
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I don’t know the qualifications of the other posters here, but as a forensic psychologist, I have to jump in to say that there are some serious misconceptions about PTSD and complex PTSD posted above.
Symptoms of both PTSD and C-PTSD do not only occur transiently. Flashbacks (if present - this is not a requirement for diagnosis) are a transient symptom, i.e., one is not constantly in a state of experiencing a flashback with this diagnosis, but other necessary symptoms of both conditions are chronic.
An individual with C-PTSD absolutely does not always or only have the reasoning or judgement of a child when triggered or experiencing a flashback. There is not a requirement for the trauma to be experienced in childhood for a diagnosis of C-PTSD - rather, it is differentiated by a cluster of additional symptoms to its parent diagnosis and the presence of chronic trauma.
Psychosis is not a diagnostic requirement for PTSD or C-PTSD. Both conditions can and do occur in people without any experience of psychosis. There is some interesting research on the experience of individuals with PTSD who do experience psychosis, with some evidence to support a subtype that includes psychotic symptoms, but it would not be accurate to assume that an individual with PTSD will experience psychotic symptoms.
Additionally, the presence of psychotic symptoms is not necessarily sufficient to meet the requirements of any given state’s insanity statute. Under a stringent insanity statute, such as that used by New Jersey, the bar is very high to meet those criteria, and experiencing some psychotic symptoms wouldn’t automatically be sufficient.
A useful paper was posted earlier in this thread discussing the use of PTSD in insanity defenses which is entirely in line with my experience in this line of work. As that paper demonstrated, PTSD is a difficult diagnosis to use to meet statutory requirements for an insanity defense. It can be done, but it appears that the rare cases where it can be demonstrated that the crime occurred in the midst of a dissociative state with a random victim were the most successful. Purely speculation, but I suspect that is why the defense is bringing insanity and self defense - because insanity alone would be difficult to prove, especially under such a stringent statute.
ETA: I think it’s also important to clarify that flashbacks, which are a severe type of dissociation, are not psychosis. Flashbacks are most often visual experiences, e.g., seeing a replay of a past traumatic event play out before you. They can also include feeling briefly removed from your present, somatic symptoms, etc. It is the dissociative state which takes one out of the present and causes them to feel as if a previous traumatic experience is occurring that has been the linchpin of successful use of PTSD in NGI pleas, to my knowledge.
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LK mentioned MB’s medications at one point. That post seems to be gone now….but she claimed they were for “antisocial” behavior…
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Thanks for explaining that, the misunderstanding of what the insanity defense encompasses has been evident and certainly hinders understanding of the incident.
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We’re going to put this topic on hold until the trial begins and have removed some recent inappropriate posts and their responses.
