Barn dogs- to doodle or poodle?

[Townsend]

I have never had Standards as barn dogs but have had them for years, currently have my 3rd and 4th girls.
We compete in all kinds of performance events - agility, rally, obedience, barn hunt, etc. I highly recommend them over any kind of doodle. In going with the Standard, you have a good idea of what you are getting which is not always the case with the doodle mixes. You will also want to make sure the breeder you have found health tests their stock - poodles are subject to a number of health issues just like any breed (you can check the Poodle Club of America web site for an overview of poodle health issues). Often the dogs that are used to make doodle crosses are of poor structure and/or temperament as no responsible breeder will sell their dogs to anyone planning to use them to create doodles. And one thing people don’t realize about doodles is you are introducing health issues from 2 breeds into the dog. So now your dog could have health issues of poodles and goldens, or poodles and labs, etc.

Most responsible breeders also temperament test their litters and will work with you on selecting the best puppy for your needs - they want you to get what you want and for the puppy to succeed in it’s new home. Both of my dogs are high energy, high drive and that is what I want, I want a dog that thinks running an agility course is a blast or searching for rats in hay bales is great fun. But that may not be what someone who just wants a pet that is content with a couple daily walks wants. As others have said, you can keep them clipped close and the hair should not be an issue. I know people that even shave ears, topknots and tails on poodles that hunt. I used to groom professionally years ago, do my own grooming on my girls now and keep them in various cuts, but most people can learn to do FFT and a simple short puppy cut one length all over the body and keep them neat and clean. You will need to do obedience training as you would with any other dog but poodles are pretty intelligent and usually take to it well.

[anon40672407]

I had a standard poodle (and a mini poodle) back when I owned horse property. He was a great barn dog, and had inside/outside privileges that we couldn’t allow other dogs (I’m allergic). He didn’t get any dirtier than any other dog, and I generally could clip him short if he showed any likelihood to. Got on well with the horses, but was protective of me. One day, my horse stepped into my space while I was grooming, and my dog lept on him. Earned a kick across the round pen for his pains, but neither horse nor dog was hurt. Surprised the heck out of me.

However, I’ve had two standards now, and both are leash aggressive. May just be my dumb luck, or my inability to train other behaviors, but they have not been good ‘walking’ dogs. When actually at the dog park, they were friendly-but-cautious around other dogs, more than willing to trot away from anyone who was aggressive there, absolutely unwilling to fight. But getting to and from the dog park on a leash was hell.

On the property, my first poodle couldn’t seem to figure out how to jump. I was going to take him to the local agility trainer, but then stopped in my tracks: why would I want to teach him how to jump out of my fenced area? Doh!

Because of the leash business, I did not ever take my barn dog out riding with me. He gave himself plenty of exercise on the property, so there wasn’t any need. He was very smart: I taught him the names of 3 different toys that I would hide around the house, and tell him to go find by name, and he’d search and search, find it under a cushion or somewhere, then bring it back to me. So I have no doubt if you got a smart one you could teach it all sorts of stuff. I just never did.

My second poodle is very loving and wonderful, but not quite as smart. He has taught himself how to exercise alongside the bicycle, so that’s how we do his big walk every day. But he has zero recall. I have not made it a priority, but in his mind, he cannot hear me if I cannot see him. (Example, he’ll bark like a crazy animal at a squirrel if he’s behind the garage, and he won’t stop when I yell at him and wouldn’t come inside, but if I walk behind the garage where I can see him, and yell, he’ll stop immediately and come when called.)

I briefly had a female standard in between the two males, but she was high strung, and savaged my smaller dog during a game of fetch, establishing heirarchy. I sent her back, as I had a toddler grandson at the time and no need of injuries.

I’ve never had a doodle. They may be just as good as dogs go. But my allergies are such that I’m sticking with a purebred. Both came from the poodle rescue. ETA, I groom myself, too. Just use a horse clippers. Easy, and doesn’t cost a bundle.

ETA to add my first poodle did not chase anything, and was great friends with the barn cat. My second poodle would kill a cat if given a chance. Temperament testing is a good idea.

[JustTheTicket]

You seem to be really set on the designer mutt, but why don’t you go to a shelter for your dog? There’s probably some mutt there you can give a stupid designer breed name to and you’ll save a life.

[MGLpony]

A classmate in nursing school had a standard poodle and was definitely a proponent of the breed. She had a very active and outdoorsy family though so the dog was well exercised. While you might get the right combo of traits in a doodle I personally wouldn’t take a chance on a puppy. From previous experience, I either want a purebred puppy or an adolescent or older mutt. Then I have a better idea of what I’m getting.

As for staying around the arena when you ride…this will likely take a lot of time and some maturity to train a dog to stay there up to an hour for “no good reason”. A herding breed would tend to be more velcro but then you have a whole 'nother set of potential issues. Maybe others have better ideas on that desire and how to attain it. Good luck with your decision and search!

[BeeHoney]

I can’t really speak to the breed issue, but IMO, the bigger issue that strikes me is your plan for bringing the dog to the barn. Your barn may allow dogs, but on a practical level it’s not always a workable thing. It’s really difficult to teach a puppy or young dog to be a good citizen to the point where it can be turned loose at someone else’s boarding barn. It’s not about intelligence and obedience at all–it’s about being able to expect that a dog would simply behave itself and mind its own business in an exciting new environment full of people, cats, other dogs, horses, squirrels, other animals, and all kinds of disgusting things, while you are occupied with something else for 2 hours. If you have an active young dog that lives in a house with a manicured yard, I think it is unrealistic to expect that dog to sit around in a polite and tidy manner in a barn/farm setting. I have some excellent farm dogs, but none of them could do what you ask–go to someone else’s farm, be turned loose, and just stick politely near me, but not be in my way or anyone else’s way for two hours while I did my own thing, and be clean enough to go home and enter the house with me.

As far as cleanliness, I wouldn’t obsess over the fur issue. It really doesn’t matter what kind of fur your dog has if it plays with another dog that was sprayed by a skunk last night or if it plays in the mud or rolls in a pile of manure or the remains of a dead animal. Even a dog with super short fur can eat a pile of horse or cat poop and then disgorge it in the car on the way home. The ability to scarf things up indiscriminately and get a self inflicted case of diarrhea is not fur related either. And dogs of all fur types can pick up fleas from other dogs.

I would just advise you to be prepared, that no matter what kind of dog you get, and no matter how intelligent or well brought up it is, your expectations may not be realistic / doable for that dog.

[Bogie]

I grew up with Standard Poodles and had one when my kids were younger. My last poodle loved to come out riding with me and was athletic enough to keep up – he even jumped cross country fences with us. He was very, very smart and easily trained. We kept him clipped short and I didn’t find that he was any dirtier than any of the other dogs we had – in fact, our Westie used to love to roll in the mud.

My childhood poodle loved our kitten. He was pretty sure we bought her for him. They were inseparable. Our last poodle, who was over a year old when we got him, would chase our cats. If we’d gotten him as a puppy it might have been different.

As others have mentioned, poodles can be very protective of their families. This is a double edged sword. We had some problems with the standard we had when my kids were little because he wanted to keep them safe. He never bit anyone, but he sure scared the heck out of the delivery men in our town. My childhood Poodle was very protective of me when my parents weren’t home, but laid back the rest of the time. My grandmother’s poodle bit a workman when he reached over my grandmother’s head to grab something, but she was very patient with family members.

I’ve heard, anecdotally, about people who’ve had issues with Doodles, but if you choose the right breeder, you’d probably be fine. Same with poodles. Find someone who breeds for temperament.

[vxf111]

Given the choice between a crossbred dog that may be a big question mark in many categories and one you can buy from a reputable breeder who shows, does performance, and health tests-- it’s a no brainer for me.

You can get a short/simple cut that doesn’t look frou frou and stays cleaner. Poodles are smart, trainable dogs. I grew up with them, As an adult they’re not my breed of choice but my family still has them and lots of agility people do. They’re great dogs.

Photos from this holiday weekend on the farm…

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdFi2ymh…aken-by=vxf111
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdC4h9aB…aken-by=vxf111

I have been around a lot of poodles. I would always suggest them over a cross. If a poodle is what you want, get a poodle. Don’t get something else and hope it’ll be a poodle.

[luna17]

I have two mini goldendoodles. I prefer their personalities to the poodle personality, which tends to run a bit more high strung for my tastes. They both like horses but aren’t around them very often. I find poodles very nippy which is a trait you don’t want. The golden helps mellow that out and ours put up with a lot of ridiculousness from little kids and such.

[S1969]

@luna17

I have two mini goldendoodles. I prefer their personalities to the poodle personality, which tends to run a bit more high strung for my tastes. They both like horses but aren’t around them very often. I find poodles very nippy which is a trait you don’t want. The golden helps mellow that out and ours put up with a lot of ridiculousness from little kids and such.

The problem with many of the “doodles” is that their temperament, or many other traits - are not predictable because there is no standard or closed gene pool from which people are breeding. Some registered labradoodles are beyond the F1 generation, but many that you see advertised for sale are still a straight cross-breeding of two (possibly poorly bred) purebred dogs of different breeds.

Curious from how many generations “purebred” mini goldendoodles your dogs were bred? Or are they crossbred? In which case, the fact that they are more mellow might be a total coincidence.

[Miss-O]

I would be very leary of getting a poodle. I have been around several different sized poodles, including standards and they all range from downright mean to skittish and aggressive because of the fear. I have grown up with big, traditionally thought of as mean dogs. When I look back to the dogs that have scared me in the past every single one of them were poodles and all the poodles I’ve known have been aggressive in some way. I know this goes against what a lot of people say but they aren’t all nice dogs. Spend a lot of time with the breeders. The grooming would also be too much for me to deal with. They get dirty quick even with short clips. They also get smelly and need frequent bathing because of it.

Some dogs ARE better at sticking around. I’m with my current breed because they are Velcro dogs and staying on property comes naturally to them. I think I had them all boundary trained in all of one or two days. Some breeds are more likely to stick around and others aren’t. I do think a poodle would do well in this regard. I do not think a greyhound would.

[vxf111]

If you don’t like poodles, why would you expect a poodle-cross to be significantly different? It’s half poodle and the poodle side could be dominant.

Some golden doodles look/act more like goldens. Some more like poodles.
Some have nonpshedding poodle type hair. Some don’t.

It’s a total crapshoot. You have no real idea of what you’re going to get.

With a breed that’s been around pre 17th century, if you research bloodlines-- you have a pretty good idea of what you’re going to get. There may be an outlier individual or two, but poodles don’t get randomly born with shedding fur. That’s a very well established breed with considerable consistency in what you’re going to get.

If they don’t float your boat, that’s fine-- to each his own. But I cannot understand why anyone would want a poodle cross while describing the things they want which are encompassed by the poodle breed. I also can’t understand paying designer price tags for a dog that you cannot show, you can basically assume has inferior parents (no one with top show dogs is crossbreeding them), and you don’t really know what you’re going to get. Especially a cross of 2 breeds both known to have health issues. Why not get any random oops dog off CL or a shelter at that point? I could see mixing a very very hardy breed (BC) into another breed for a purpose-bred litter of working dog (for example people crossbreeding lurchers specifically for that purpose). But for a pet? Because people want a big dog that doesn’t shed? Try a poodle, wheaton, or portie for starters. That already exists. It’s existed since we started cataloging breeds. Why going for some random cross and hope it’ll be what you want?

Whatever you say you want about a goldendoodle… there is no guarantee that THIS litter is going to have that quality. Whereas if you pick an established breed, you start with much better odds of it meeting the breed standard.

I cannot understand going out of one’s way to pay big bucks for a mutt. I get why people like mutts. I don’t get why because it has a fancy name it’s worth 4 figures and suddenly is the be-all-answer-to-everyone’s-dog needs.

Says someone who loves (but does not own) a goldendoodle…

https://www.instagram.com/p/Baq-mnwh9EE/?taken-by=vxf111

Who sheds, has c-r-a-z-y teeth, is completely untrainable, is timid, and got a weird mix of characteristics from the breeds.

[222orchids]

Article in psychology today from a couple years ago was about the guy who first bred the labradoodle. He says he seriously regrets the whole experience and believes that he created a Frankenstein dog. A quick search would help you find the article. Might be worth it. For the record, I’m a former poodle owner, who now has a shelter dog that is only identifiable as a “brown dog”, and both have been equally beloved and well behaved around the barn.

[ozjb]

We have 2 Labradoodles. Got them from a good friend who is a long time and reputable breeder. Our daughters grew up riding together in Pony Club and a fellow eventing family. Love those dogs to bits. They don’t shed much, but the coat is a bit of a nightmare, one has a nice soft coat that doesn’t matt too badly, but the other one matts a lot. They stay clipped quite short most of the year. And they are fairly big dogs. We had always been Golden Retriever people and while I miss my Goldens, but I don’t miss all that hair!

[mithril]

I got my first Standard Poodle just about a year ago and she’s one of the best dogs I’ve ever owned. Great temperament; very biddable. Has not shown aggression to strangers or other animals, and she isn’t skittish in the least. She does come from a good, reputable breeder. Both parents are champions, and health tested. She’s also got quite the prey drive (and energy level!) - but that’s to be expected for a breed originally bred for hunting! I also have two German Pointer/Standard Poodle mixes and have worked with Poodles and poodle mixes as a vet tech, so my experience is varied.

Disagree with the comment which mentioned poodles getting smelly. My girl hasn’t ever had a “dog” smell like some other breeds I’ve known. She definitely sheds less than my other dogs (I’ve had German Shepherds in the past; low shedding is so nice!!), and gets dirty at the same rate as my other dogs. Her coat does require a lot of upkeep, but I prefer to keep it long. I would highly recommend a poodle to anyone who is looking for a highly intelligent, friendly, and active companion - who is also willing to keep up with the grooming!

[PhoenixFarm]

We live with a doodle and he’s a great off leash farm dog, though it should be mentioned he looks like a small golden retriever, not much poodle or doodle visible. The coat hasn’t been an issue, but we also have a rough coated collie, so it’s all relative after that lol.

The doodle isn’t technically ours, he’s my sisters, but she got a job in Hawaii, and bringing in dogs is tough, so he’s been hanging with us while she’s away. I was pretty skeptical when she got him and probably mumbled some designer dog snark under my breath. But, he’s lovely. Was a super simple puppy, gets on with everybody, just easy. He’s a little spooky and barky, but he lost an eye as a puppy so it’s mostly related to his sight.

My equine vet is a standard poodle guy (current pet, Bart the wonder poodle) and he loves them and bart is a charmer.

[S1969]

@PhoenixFarm

We live with a doodle and he’s a great off leash farm dog, though it should be mentioned he looks like a small golden retriever, not much poodle or doodle visible. The coat hasn’t been an issue, but we also have a rough coated collie, so it’s all relative after that lol.

The doodle isn’t technically ours, he’s my sisters, but she got a job in Hawaii, and bringing in dogs is tough, so he’s been hanging with us while she’s away. I was pretty skeptical when she got him and probably mumbled some designer dog snark under my breath. But, he’s lovely. Was a super simple puppy, gets on with everybody, just easy. He’s a little spooky and barky, but he lost an eye as a puppy so it’s mostly related to his sight.

My equine vet is a standard poodle guy (current pet, Bart the wonder poodle) and he loves them and bart is a charmer.

Sounds like this doodle is exactly as “unpredictable” as has been described, though. The coat, which is supposed to be the sole reason for the breed - is not noticeably different from a golden retriever.

The temperament might be breed related, injury related, or totally unrelated. But not specifically predictable, as is the goal with a purebred dog breed.

I’m not against “mutts” - most of them are great dogs. The point of the argument, though, is that a “doodle” of any type is not necessarily any more predictable (in terms of coat, size, health or temperament) than the average shelter mix.

[luna17]

@S1969

The problem with many of the “doodles” is that their temperament, or many other traits - are not predictable because there is no standard or closed gene pool from which people are breeding. Some registered labradoodles are beyond the F1 generation, but many that you see advertised for sale are still a straight cross-breeding of two (possibly poorly bred) purebred dogs of different breeds.

Curious from how many generations “purebred” mini goldendoodles your dogs were bred? Or are they crossbred? In which case, the fact that they are more mellow might be a total coincidence.

Mine are F1b, so a pure mini poodle father, golden doodle mother.

[bdj]

@222orchids

Article in psychology today from a couple years ago was about the guy who first bred the labradoodle. He says he seriously regrets the whole experience and believes that he created a Frankenstein dog. A quick search would help you find the article.

Article by Stanley Coren (from the Psychology Today blog): https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation

[vxf111]

@luna17

Mine are F1b, so a pure mini poodle father, golden doodle mother.

Why would someone take a 10-15 inch dog (miniature poodle) and breed it to a much larger dog (standard poodle is 18-24 inches, golden is about that)? That’s just asking for trouble. That’s quite a lot of mixing of phenotype there. I don’t know how you can expect much consistency?! And by the time you’re 3/4 poodle, doesn’t that beg the question why “why not get a poodle?”

[soapbox]

The whole point of crossing back is to get the traits of that breed… so if you mixed a poodle and a golden, and it’s not poodly enough for you… rather than add more poodle… why not start with a poodle?

[subk]

I have a standard poodle farm dog. I’ve always had hunting dogs–labs, Irish setter, pointers–and this dog’s mother is from “hunting poodle stock” and his father a successful show dog. Both his parents are now (horse) farm dogs. He is a fantastic dog and without a doubt the best dog I’ve ever owned. He’s just over a year old so still training for some of the manners (self control!) I want, but I have no doubt he will be successful at anything I want to teach him.

He is the penultimate companion dog. I don’t worry about him wandering because his very favorite place to be is with me,whether it’s in the same room or outside. He does chase the barn cat, but I strongly suspect the barn cat eggs him own and enjoys the play. Even when they tussle the cat won’t expose his claws. He wants to “help” with the horses, but is getting much better at staying out of their way. He does not go riding with me, yet. (The problem being not that he’d wander away but just the opposite and want to be too close.)

He is also a very clean dog and does NOT have a typical stinky doggy odor. He is clipped short in the summer (#8 blade) and just a little longer (#5) in the winter. I do him myself (I figured if I could clip an horse I could figure out how to clip a dog!) every 6 weeks or so with some spot trimming, face, feet tail a few times in between. He gets of pouf on the end of his tail and a short topknot and everything else (ears too) are clipped short. Managing his coat has actually been much easier than I was expecting as it is usually too short for matts and burrs.

He does not shed. At all. No worries for my rugs, furniture, clothes or cars, and it is well worth the time for coat management. My husband who took some convincing on the whole poodle idea has made a 180, is totally sold, and still amazed at how clean he is.

He’s become a great family dog. He has a unique relationship with each of us of the four of us and we each secretly believe we are his favorite. Even the UPS guy likes him. With lots of activity (this is not an apartment or tiny yard dog) he is happy to settle and chill when it’s time.

I will also give his breeder a tremendous amount of credit for the socialization. She only does one or two litters a year so is able to totally commit all her time for 8-10 weeks in handling and working with the puppies. My vet and his wife (a horse family) have already decided on a poodle for their next dog because of him.

After having a poodle I have zero understanding why anyone would want a cross.