Barn Manager position questions

[georgiienne]

@Willesdon

If horses weren’t involved, would you ever even consider a job that had no job description, no definite pay and/or benefits, no contract? Just because the word “horse” is involved, don’t turn off your brain.

If I knew the people, had worked there (and with them) before, and had already shown intention to return, yes?
As I said, I’m trying to get all the info I can. This definitely isn’t my first job, nor is it now my first horse job; I intend to have a contract, whether I have to write it or they do – I just want to know what should be on it for both our benefits.

[georgiienne]

@JanM

This sounds like a terrible idea. You don’t know the new owners, you don’t know if they’re horse people or just someone in love with the idea of running a barn. How many other employees are there? If you move back, where will you live? Probably living quarters will require a lease, so if the job isn’t what you want, are you stuck? Can you afford to move back there, and if things go wrong move back home again?

​​​​​​Thanks for your reply.

I knew ‘of’ the owners (they co-owned with the previous owner but were silent partners), I’ve since spoken to one of them directly and my previous manager and have the low-down on their history: definitely seasoned horse-people. Its true that I don’t know their business management style or how they are to work with.
I intended to move back, so I’m not scared of being locked into a 1 year lease, but shorter leases or sublets are options too. I could quite easily get a job similar to what I’m doing right now, if things went south and I found myself needing work.

[georgiienne]

@gumtree

I’m with others. They called you. Completely reasonable to expect them to tell you EXACTLY the job description and compensation. This is the starting point. Then negotiate from there. If needed

As to what would be a reasonable compensation it totally dependent on job description IMO is impossible to say based on the information given. They type of barn manager and back ground/experience would be much higher for my operation than say a general boarding barn. I doubt very much I would hire someone that didn’t come with a lot of experience. Would like to see assistant manager with some sort of “name” barn behind it.

Keep in mind most if not all BM is a salaried position.Managers in general. Set hours esp in a horse operation is never a given. The compensation should take this into account. As should you. Some, a lot of barn owners tend to take advantage of this. Not always by design. Nature of the beast. I know a number of people, including my self who passed on a salaried position with a title attached without proper compensation. Working by the hour with set hours and days paid less. But in the long run when figuring out what the compensation was going to be for all the extra hours and headaches. We were better paid by the hour.

Invaluable info, thank you so much!

[georgiienne]

@TCA Arabians

The glass is half-full. That means the glass is not full.

Tell them you’re interested and request the offer in writing via e or letter. Then you’ll know your starting point for a negotiation. You mentioned returning to the province. That suggests you’re in Canada. I don’t know the in’s and out’s of the Canadian healthcare system. Perhaps you don’t need employer provided health benefits??

Lots of question to have answered: monthly pay, paid on what day of the month, board, hours expected, hours of operation, # of boarders, # of trainers, severance, relocation, days off, vacation, sick time, etc. etc. Plus, # of support staff.

Thanks so much for your reply.

You’re correct, employers aren’t obligated to provide benefits or health care. If you’re an employee (versus a contractor), the employer must put a small mount of each pay towards Employment Insurance, and there’s also Workers Compensation for workplace injury. In my years riding in Canada, I’ve never heard of anyone in the industry with benefits.

[georgiienne]

@HungarianHippo

Never approach a job with your head spinning–that’s a sign that you need to pause and step back. Remember with job interviews and job offers that they are recruiting you, not doing you a favor. Given the need to relocate, you have a lot to lose here, so be very cautious. This is your career and you are in the drivers seat, not them. That they are rushing you is a major red flag-- either they’re disorganized and unprepared (which generally means you’d be working in a non-stop circus atmosphere) or they don’t see you as a professional who deserves respect.*

100% agree that the correct response is “Hey, I’m so pleased you’ve thought of me for this role. I’m really interested, but sounds like there’s still some work to be done to define the role and compensation. Let me know when you’re ready to send the job description and a written offer, and I’ll review right away.”

ETA *This doesn’t mean they’re mean, bad people-- just treat them like the bossy horse in the herd who doesn’t realize that he’s not allowed to crowd your space. A tactful “nuh-uh, step back” will go a long way to establishing your position with these new owners.

Thanks! Great standpoint and advice. That would be my gut instinct in any other industry but I was unsure now (where I have a history with them and horses are obviously a passion I want to get back into), really good to hear others believe this is the correct approach in this case too. Thanks again!

[georgiienne]

@GraceLikeRain

Lots of good advice. I’d also map out what your personal expenses look like on a monthly and annual basis. Figure out how much you need to make ends meet and at what number are you comfortable able to pay your bills with enough “extra” that you have an emergency cushion.

My first job out of school I didn’t have a good sense of this number. When an offer came through I thought “well that looks awfully low but I’m sure I can manage”…no…hard no. In short order I was using savings to cover monthly expenses.

Once I had a true sense of how much I “cost” each month, I had a hard bottom number. If an offer came in below that number then I needed to walk away. Personally, I never divulge that number but it gave me a lot of confidence in my decision-making process.

Yes, my expenses are at the forefront of my concerns at the moment. I intended to move in a few months, giving me time to save up until then. I lived in the area before, so am lucky to be able to use my old budgets and just adapt them to new situations and rises in costs. Definitely want my budget sorted and a proper salary/wage proposal before I really suggest I’m keen on the position

[georgiienne]

@PonyPenny

This is a job description for a Barn Manager position at a retirement community in South Orange County California. It was a full-time benefitted position with a reputable company that pays its employees legally.

JOB SUMMARY:
Under direction to plan, organize, coordinate and supervise the operations of the Community
Equestrian Center; perform other related work as requested by the Recreation and Special Events Director.

ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:
Plans, organizes, supervises and participates ​in the care and feeding of horses; riding and
instructional programs and the keeping of related records and reports. Keeps the Recreation
Director informed of operating problems and matters affecting other departments and divisions.
Plans and implements new programs or procedures in accordance with established objectives. Provides exemplary customer service at all times.
Provides feedback to employees throughout their review period. Provides feedback to the employee during their annual performance review that is timely, specific, honest, and designed to help the employee succeed.
Supervises and maintains all stable area and related equipment, selects and purchases required livestock, selects and purchases the necessary feed, riding and maintenance equipment. Assists veterinarian and administers minor medical attention when necessary; coordinate the resident Drill Team.
Prepares annual budget proposals and administers approved budgets. Assists in planning/implementing training and safety programs, selects and evaluates employees; attends bi-weekly department and club meetings to receive and/or disseminate operational information and changes; communicate with boarders and the general public.
Drives a vehicle to meetings, workshops, and other job related responsibilities.
Works effectively with co-workers, customers and others by sharing ideas in a constructive and positive manner; listens to and objectively considers ideas and suggestions from others; keeps commitments; keeps others informed of work progress, timetables and issues; addresses problems and issues constructively to find mutually acceptable and practical business solutions; addresses others by name, title or other respectful identifier, and; respects the diversity of our work force in actions, words and deeds.
Regular Attendance Required. All duties performed on site for the Community.

NON-ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:
Promotes the use of stable facilities and assists ​stable facilities users with a variety of related
problems.
Conducts individual or group riding lessons, evaluates rider to horse ability and
suggests more training when necessary.

EQUIPMENT OPERATED:
Truck with horse trailer, telephone, and calculator.

WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Indoor office as well as exposure to outdoor climate conditions, dust and fumes.

DESIRABLE QUALIFICATIONS:
Graduation from high school and thorough ​supervisory experience in stable operations or
equivalent combination of education and experience which produces the following:
• Knowledge of occupational hazards and safety precautions of stable operations.
• Knowledge of horse feeding, grooming and training requirements.
• Knowledge of the most frequent types of horses ailments and ability to recognize and treat
minor problems.
• Knowledge of conflict management and resolution.
• Knowledge of the methods of handling, receipting and maintaining records of money
received.
• Ability to provide exemplary customer service and resolve problems in a calm and rational manner.
• Ability to relate to the needs and concerns of residents and clubs.
• Ability to maintain effective working relationships with co-workers and the public and to deal
with public relations problems courteously and tactfully.
• Skill in handling horses and riding.

SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS:
• Possession of a valid California driver’s license.

PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS:
Requires up to 4 hours of standing and/or ​walking, truck driving on a daily basis, frequent lifting and carrying of up to 30 lbs. Continual balancing, and grasping, frequent pulling, pushing and reaching and occasional climbing, crawling, crouching, feeling, fingering, kneeling and stooping.
​

MENTAL REQUIREMENTS:
Reading, detailed work, problem solving, training, math, reasoning, verbal/written
communication skills, customer contact, multiple concurrent tasks.
​
The above statements are intended to describe the general nature and level of work being
performed by people assigned to this job. They are not intended to be an exhaustive list of
all responsibilities, duties and skills required of personnel so classified.

Thanks so much!

[georgiienne]

@Jillofalltrades

Wonderful advice here. The only thing I would add (experienced BM here and have faced your situation before) is to have them fly you out to meet them and discuss the position at length, following an email from them detailing your duties. Make sure you know what support staff they will have available for you and the budget for more staff, if needed. Discuss the monthly budget, as many places want you to have the horses and property looking top notch while giving you a bottom of the barrel budget for feed, hay, bedding, equipment or equipment repairs, property maintenance issues, etc. Be careful to set yourself up for success.

Excellent point about asking about budgets and staff. I wouldn’t have considered that.

[Redlei44]

@georgiienne

I would agree with you about the moving expenses vs. minimum contract, however I figured the latter costs the employer less and gives me more security (where I intended to move in the future anyway). I see it as also beneficial to them: me requesting a min of 3-6 months may help reinforce the idea I intend to stay with them for (at least) that long. Correct me if I’m wrong though!
Sad truth about the benefits; extremely uncommon in our industry. I’m trying to work that into my budget in case they aren’t.

I haven’t heard of minimum contracts for an employee job in the horse business, but perhaps it is more common in your area? Personally, I would not want to be on the hook for that as the employee - what if the situation goes south or is not as promised? Better overall for everyone to be free to say “this isn’t working” and move on amicably.

At this time it doesn’t sound like you need to, or should, offer anything in particular to make things beneficial for them. Not that you should try to stick it to them or anything, just that it sounds like this is mutually beneficial to both parties without adding in minimum commitments.

[Guilherme]

@Willesdon

If horses weren’t involved, would you ever even consider a job that had no job description, no definite pay and/or benefits, no contract? Just because the word “horse” is involved, don’t turn off your brain.

A truly brilliant observation. Should be tattooed on the inside of the eyelid of anybody looking for a horse industry job so they see it every time they blink!!!

G.

[georgiienne]

@Redlei44

I haven’t heard of minimum contracts for an employee job in the horse business, but perhaps it is more common in your area? Personally, I would not want to be on the hook for that as the employee - what if the situation goes south or is not as promised? Better overall for everyone to be free to say “this isn’t working” and move on amicably.

At this time it doesn’t sound like you need to, or should, offer anything in particular to make things beneficial for them. Not that you should try to stick it to them or anything, just that it sounds like this is mutually beneficial to both parties without adding in minimum commitments.

I appreciate your input. I can’t say if its at all common in the horse industry here, but its not uncommon in jobs in general, especially when relocation is expected. If I was coming in as a brand new employee, I think it would certainly be bold of me and risky for them, in my situation I figure if the position doesn’t work out I can just demote myself, otherwise they could just refuse that condition upfront and opt for another way to offer security (or compensation for a lack of). Sorry if that’s confusing, makes sense in my head… haha