Barn Manager position questions

[georgiienne]

I have a crazy situation and I’m very curious what others think and would suggest. Please be honest – its a massive decision either way, so I want to be sure I’m considering everything before I try and make a decision. Thanks a TON, in advance.

The situation:
I worked as a stable-hand at a small riding school for just under a year, when a series of events caused the barn to not reopen after a scheduled closure. By that point, I was one of two ‘full-timers’ (working 5 days a week, 8hrs) and had taken on many barn manager duties (there wasn’t an appointed BM; most duties were handled by the General Manager – the only person on salary). Waiting to hear for an opening date and paying expenses with little income, I finally had to leave the province and move home. I was told I could contact the barn when it reopened if I ever moved back and they’d find a position for me if I wanted it.
Fast-forward a couple months, I’m still saving up and have two jobs on the go, and now the barn is repeatedly and enthusiastically contacting me and has offered me a Barn Manager position. Because there’s a new owner involved, there’s been a few months hiatus, and it’s a new position, they’re unsure/vague about the details and terms of the job, but they want me ASAP. With this in mind, I’m trying to think of terms I should require in case they ask me to provide some.

My questions:

• What pay would you deem reasonable for this? I was minimum wage, hourly before. I have lots of casual and personal experience in barns/farms, but this was my first ‘proper’ paid barn job; as such, I’ve no experience as a ‘Barn Manager’ before, but know this barn/herd/staff/suppliers well and the previous owner recommended me for the position
• Where I’m being asked to move, I expect it’s fair to ask for certain terms like a minimum contract. Is there anything else you’d suggest? (Some moving allowance? Probabation period voided?). (There’s no accommodation, so that would be up to me to sort out)
• I didn’t have benefits before and I’m unsure if they were provided to the former General Manager (no longer there). Is it unreasonable to request this? I’ve heard its often common with BM positions
• Should I have other questions or concerns that I’m not thinking of?? As I said, this is a new position to me and its been a sudden, unexpected offer so I feel like my head’s spinning a bit.

[paintedpony]

Caution, Caution, Caution…If there is no job description, there is no job. My recommendation: have them define the role, and the compensation prior to considering the offer. Sorry, but I strongly suspect the role will be identical to your prior role, and at minimum wage. Wait,…below minimum wage, as they will want to provide you with a salary and unlimited work hours.

Why is the glass always half full when I look at it ?

[clanter]

@paintedpony

Caution, Caution, Caution…

Why is the glass always half full when I look at it ?

you put more liquid in the glass than I.

once OP is there the job duties would become all the work with subsistence wages … not enough to even go back home. Once trapped in the position the dream most likely turns either into Groundhog’s Day or a nightmare

so I put less than a quart in the glass, may be something like 10 cents

[Redlei44]

Hard agree with paintedpony on this one - without agreement/clarification on your duties and time commitment, how do either party know what’s fair? Or whether you really want the job?

Regarding the other items, reimbursement of moving expenses might be more beneficial than a minimim contract. Absolutely inquire about benefits, but many employers don’t offer them. Make sure that that the salary covers your expenses if not.

[brody]

If this is urban barn in gta be very very cautious.

[Willesdon]

If horses weren’t involved, would you ever even consider a job that had no job description, no definite pay and/or benefits, no contract? Just because the word “horse” is involved, don’t turn off your brain.

[JanM]

This sounds like a terrible idea. You don’t know the new owners, you don’t know if they’re horse people or just someone in love with the idea of running a barn. How many other employees are there? If you move back, where will you live? Probably living quarters will require a lease, so if the job isn’t what you want, are you stuck? Can you afford to move back there, and if things go wrong move back home again?

[ladyj79]

Tell them they can email you a provisional contract. Make no moves anyway whatsoever until they do this very simple thing.

[gumtree]

I’m with others. They called you. Completely reasonable to expect them to tell you EXACTLY the job description and compensation. This is the starting point. Then negotiate from there. If needed

As to what would be a reasonable compensation it totally dependent on job description IMO is impossible to say based on the information given. They type of barn manager and back ground/experience would be much higher for my operation than say a general boarding barn. I doubt very much I would hire someone that didn’t come with a lot of experience. Would like to see assistant manager with some sort of “name” barn behind it.

Keep in mind most if not all BM is a salaried position.Managers in general. Set hours esp in a horse operation is never a given. The compensation should take this into account. As should you. Some, a lot of barn owners tend to take advantage of this. Not always by design. Nature of the beast. I know a number of people, including my self who passed on a salaried position with a title attached without proper compensation. Working by the hour with set hours and days paid less. But in the long run when figuring out what the compensation was going to be for all the extra hours and headaches. We were better paid by the hour.

[TCA_Arabians]

The glass is half-full. That means the glass is not full.

Tell them you’re interested and request the offer in writing via e or letter. Then you’ll know your starting point for a negotiation. You mentioned returning to the province. That suggests you’re in Canada. I don’t know the in’s and out’s of the Canadian healthcare system. Perhaps you don’t need employer provided health benefits??

Lots of question to have answered: monthly pay, paid on what day of the month, board, hours expected, hours of operation, # of boarders, # of trainers, severance, relocation, days off, vacation, sick time, etc. etc. Plus, # of support staff.

[HungarianHippo]

Never approach a job with your head spinning–that’s a sign that you need to pause and step back. Remember with job interviews and job offers that they are recruiting you, not doing you a favor. Given the need to relocate, you have a lot to lose here, so be very cautious. This is your career and you are in the drivers seat, not them. That they are rushing you is a major red flag-- either they’re disorganized and unprepared (which generally means you’d be working in a non-stop circus atmosphere) or they don’t see you as a professional who deserves respect.*

100% agree that the correct response is “Hey, I’m so pleased you’ve thought of me for this role. I’m really interested, but sounds like there’s still some work to be done to define the role and compensation. Let me know when you’re ready to send the job description and a written offer, and I’ll review right away.”

ETA *This doesn’t mean they’re mean, bad people-- just treat them like the bossy horse in the herd who doesn’t realize that he’s not allowed to crowd your space. A tactful “nuh-uh, step back” will go a long way to establishing your position with these new owners.

[GraceLikeRain]

Lots of good advice. I’d also map out what your personal expenses look like on a monthly and annual basis. Figure out how much you need to make ends meet and at what number are you comfortable able to pay your bills with enough “extra” that you have an emergency cushion.

My first job out of school I didn’t have a good sense of this number. When an offer came through I thought “well that looks awfully low but I’m sure I can manage”…no…hard no. In short order I was using savings to cover monthly expenses.

Once I had a true sense of how much I “cost” each month, I had a hard bottom number. If an offer came in below that number then I needed to walk away. Personally, I never divulge that number but it gave me a lot of confidence in my decision-making process.

[Palm_Beach]

OP, you have an expensive hobby, and it sounds like you have a free or cheap place to live (home). Why not identify a career that you have an interest in that pays much better than minimum wage? Get the training to do that job while you can live cheaply. Barn jobs are always around, and if you eventually decide that your heart is in a barn job, you’d be hired in an instant.

[Scribbler]

Also ask how many other staff they will have. It’s easy to call someone a barn manager but have the duties be mucking stalls. Also what the staffing hierarchy looks like. Are you in charge of things? These are questions to ask after you have seen the contract and job description as these might answer the questions.

[PonyPenny]

This is a job description for a Barn Manager position at a retirement community in South Orange County California. It was a full-time benefitted position with a reputable company that pays its employees legally.

JOB SUMMARY:
Under direction to plan, organize, coordinate and supervise the operations of the Community
Equestrian Center; perform other related work as requested by the Recreation and Special Events Director.

ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:
Plans, organizes, supervises and participates ​in the care and feeding of horses; riding and
instructional programs and the keeping of related records and reports. Keeps the Recreation
Director informed of operating problems and matters affecting other departments and divisions.
Plans and implements new programs or procedures in accordance with established objectives. Provides exemplary customer service at all times.
Provides feedback to employees throughout their review period. Provides feedback to the employee during their annual performance review that is timely, specific, honest, and designed to help the employee succeed.
Supervises and maintains all stable area and related equipment, selects and purchases required livestock, selects and purchases the necessary feed, riding and maintenance equipment. Assists veterinarian and administers minor medical attention when necessary; coordinate the resident Drill Team.
Prepares annual budget proposals and administers approved budgets. Assists in planning/implementing training and safety programs, selects and evaluates employees; attends bi-weekly department and club meetings to receive and/or disseminate operational information and changes; communicate with boarders and the general public.
Drives a vehicle to meetings, workshops, and other job related responsibilities.
Works effectively with co-workers, customers and others by sharing ideas in a constructive and positive manner; listens to and objectively considers ideas and suggestions from others; keeps commitments; keeps others informed of work progress, timetables and issues; addresses problems and issues constructively to find mutually acceptable and practical business solutions; addresses others by name, title or other respectful identifier, and; respects the diversity of our work force in actions, words and deeds.
Regular Attendance Required. All duties performed on site for the Community.

NON-ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:
Promotes the use of stable facilities and assists ​stable facilities users with a variety of related
problems.
Conducts individual or group riding lessons, evaluates rider to horse ability and
suggests more training when necessary.

EQUIPMENT OPERATED:
Truck with horse trailer, telephone, and calculator.

WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Indoor office as well as exposure to outdoor climate conditions, dust and fumes.

DESIRABLE QUALIFICATIONS:
Graduation from high school and thorough ​supervisory experience in stable operations or
equivalent combination of education and experience which produces the following:
• Knowledge of occupational hazards and safety precautions of stable operations.
• Knowledge of horse feeding, grooming and training requirements.
• Knowledge of the most frequent types of horses ailments and ability to recognize and treat
minor problems.
• Knowledge of conflict management and resolution.
• Knowledge of the methods of handling, receipting and maintaining records of money
received.
• Ability to provide exemplary customer service and resolve problems in a calm and rational manner.
• Ability to relate to the needs and concerns of residents and clubs.
• Ability to maintain effective working relationships with co-workers and the public and to deal
with public relations problems courteously and tactfully.
• Skill in handling horses and riding.

SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS:
• Possession of a valid California driver’s license.

PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS:
Requires up to 4 hours of standing and/or ​walking, truck driving on a daily basis, frequent lifting and carrying of up to 30 lbs. Continual balancing, and grasping, frequent pulling, pushing and reaching and occasional climbing, crawling, crouching, feeling, fingering, kneeling and stooping.
​

MENTAL REQUIREMENTS:
Reading, detailed work, problem solving, training, math, reasoning, verbal/written
communication skills, customer contact, multiple concurrent tasks.
​
The above statements are intended to describe the general nature and level of work being
performed by people assigned to this job. They are not intended to be an exhaustive list of
all responsibilities, duties and skills required of personnel so classified.

[gottagrey]

Agree with the others. You should not be determining the salary to ask, they should be giving you the job description as well as the salary and benefits for the position. without any of that information, I would not even consider it a job much less pack up and relocate there.

[gumtree]

@PonyPenny

This is a job description for a Barn Manager position at a retirement community in South Orange County California. It was a full-time benefitted position with a reputable company that pays its employees legally.

JOB SUMMARY:
Under direction to plan, organize, coordinate and supervise the operations of the Community
Equestrian Center; perform other related work as requested by the Recreation and Special Events Director.

ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:
Plans, organizes, supervises and participates ​in the care and feeding of horses; riding and
instructional programs and the keeping of related records and reports. Keeps the Recreation
Director informed of operating problems and matters affecting other departments and divisions.
Plans and implements new programs or procedures in accordance with established objectives. Provides exemplary customer service at all times.
Provides feedback to employees throughout their review period. Provides feedback to the employee during their annual performance review that is timely, specific, honest, and designed to help the employee succeed.
Supervises and maintains all stable area and related equipment, selects and purchases required livestock, selects and purchases the necessary feed, riding and maintenance equipment. Assists veterinarian and administers minor medical attention when necessary; coordinate the resident Drill Team.
Prepares annual budget proposals and administers approved budgets. Assists in planning/implementing training and safety programs, selects and evaluates employees; attends bi-weekly department and club meetings to receive and/or disseminate operational information and changes; communicate with boarders and the general public.
Drives a vehicle to meetings, workshops, and other job related responsibilities.
Works effectively with co-workers, customers and others by sharing ideas in a constructive and positive manner; listens to and objectively considers ideas and suggestions from others; keeps commitments; keeps others informed of work progress, timetables and issues; addresses problems and issues constructively to find mutually acceptable and practical business solutions; addresses others by name, title or other respectful identifier, and; respects the diversity of our work force in actions, words and deeds.
Regular Attendance Required. All duties performed on site for the Community.

NON-ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS:
Promotes the use of stable facilities and assists ​stable facilities users with a variety of related
problems.
Conducts individual or group riding lessons, evaluates rider to horse ability and
suggests more training when necessary.

EQUIPMENT OPERATED:
Truck with horse trailer, telephone, and calculator.

WORK ENVIRONMENT:
Indoor office as well as exposure to outdoor climate conditions, dust and fumes.

DESIRABLE QUALIFICATIONS:
Graduation from high school and thorough ​supervisory experience in stable operations or
equivalent combination of education and experience which produces the following:
• Knowledge of occupational hazards and safety precautions of stable operations.
• Knowledge of horse feeding, grooming and training requirements.
• Knowledge of the most frequent types of horses ailments and ability to recognize and treat
minor problems.
• Knowledge of conflict management and resolution.
• Knowledge of the methods of handling, receipting and maintaining records of money
received.
• Ability to provide exemplary customer service and resolve problems in a calm and rational manner.
• Ability to relate to the needs and concerns of residents and clubs.
• Ability to maintain effective working relationships with co-workers and the public and to deal
with public relations problems courteously and tactfully.
• Skill in handling horses and riding.

SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS:
• Possession of a valid California driver’s license.

PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS:
Requires up to 4 hours of standing and/or ​walking, truck driving on a daily basis, frequent lifting and carrying of up to 30 lbs. Continual balancing, and grasping, frequent pulling, pushing and reaching and occasional climbing, crawling, crouching, feeling, fingering, kneeling and stooping.
​

MENTAL REQUIREMENTS:
Reading, detailed work, problem solving, training, math, reasoning, verbal/written
communication skills, customer contact, multiple concurrent tasks.
​
The above statements are intended to describe the general nature and level of work being
performed by people assigned to this job. They are not intended to be an exhaustive list of
all responsibilities, duties and skills required of personnel so classified.

The only glaring requirement I see missing and is surprising. Computer skills.
I assume because it is not mentioned the work week is M-F 9 to 5

What did this job pay

[Jillofalltrades]

Wonderful advice here. The only thing I would add (experienced BM here and have faced your situation before) is to have them fly you out to meet them and discuss the position at length, following an email from them detailing your duties. Make sure you know what support staff they will have available for you and the budget for more staff, if needed. Discuss the monthly budget, as many places want you to have the horses and property looking top notch while giving you a bottom of the barrel budget for feed, hay, bedding, equipment or equipment repairs, property maintenance issues, etc. Be careful to set yourself up for success.

[georgiienne]

@paintedpony

Caution, Caution, Caution…If there is no job description, there is no job. My recommendation: have them define the role, and the compensation prior to considering the offer. Sorry, but I strongly suspect the role will be identical to your prior role, and at minimum wage. Wait,…below minimum wage, as they will want to provide you with a salary and unlimited work hours.

Why is the glass always half full when I look at it ?

My mistake, so I’ll clarify: they’ve posted the job (and a brief description of the obvious duties required; however where I was a prior worker, I figured they’d be giving me more detailed ideas of the duties specific to our barn, ie. ‘‘You know Tom, well know you’re going to be in charge of working with him’’).
I’ve been given an estimated wage range, the minimum of which is above min. wage in the area. I’m currently working out my predicted expenses (as they’ve changed since I last lived there) and am quite sure it will be sufficient pay, but will, of course, confirm this before taking the job.

Thanks for your reply!

[georgiienne]

@Redlei44

Hard agree with paintedpony on this one - without agreement/clarification on your duties and time commitment, how do either party know what’s fair? Or whether you really want the job?

Regarding the other items, reimbursement of moving expenses might be more beneficial than a minimim contract. Absolutely inquire about benefits, but many employers don’t offer them. Make sure that that the salary covers your expenses if not.

Thanks so much.

Absolutely agree that clear terms are necessary to proceed, so I’ve been very careful not to sound too keen until that’s worked out. It’s taken several phone calls and slowly piecing things together…
I would agree with you about the moving expenses vs. minimum contract, however I figured the latter costs the employer less and gives me more security (where I intended to move in the future anyway). I see it as also beneficial to them: me requesting a min of 3-6 months may help reinforce the idea I intend to stay with them for (at least) that long. Correct me if I’m wrong though!
Sad truth about the benefits; extremely uncommon in our industry. I’m trying to work that into my budget in case they aren’t.