Barn Manager/Trainer and BO Revenue Split?

[BOGCE]

I hired my BM initially as a trainer but he soon became the Barn Manager and Barn Trainer. We worked out his base compensation for the Barn Manager duties and worked out a split for lessons however we never got to the “other”. He sometimes mentions that he is well deserving of his salary because he puts in so many hours at the barn (on average 54 hour weeks at the barn) - but I would say 50% of his time is devoted to giving lessons…which revenue is split 1/3 barn 1/3 trainer 1/3 cost of horses - but is not his main job which is being the BM and the base of his salary. Also majority of lessons are given on barn horses and which we pay all costs for.

There are multiple situations that need to be settled out and hoping I could get some input:

1. Horse Shows

If he is our in house trainer and takes our clients to a show does he get 100% of the trainer fee? Consider that he is also the Barn Manager at the barn. Of course all his duties would be still taken care of by him but the value of his presence at the barn that we pay him for is gone. (Our barn manager doesn’t prepare feed / muck stalls / etc. but manages our grooms) Lessons would still go on but we would use a trainer that we have a higher split % of the lesson revenue so we also lose that difference. What would be a reasonable split of the fees be?

2. Sale commissions

When a trainer finds a horse for a client they get a “finders fee”. Would it be reasonable for the barn to receive a portion of that if the trainer is the barns in house trainer? I understand that they have to search for the horse and visit the horse with the client. But most of that work is on our clock and for our client - which he brings up as “putting so many hours at the barn”. Opinions?

-Maria

[soloudinhere]

1. No, the barn owner does not get a commission simply for owning the barn. That’s extreme nickel and diming. You’re getting board and a split of lessons out of the deal if someone gets a horse. You had no part in finding the horse which is what a commission is compensation for.

2. If you are dissatisfied with the amount of time that the barn manager is dedicating to the barn, then discuss that with him. If you’re actually not and you’re just pissed that he makes more money off lessons, then I guess you could tell him he can’t teach anymore. Most places have a trainer/barn manager in a dual role and it is fine.

Between this and the other thread you sound like you’re hunting for more revenue and trying to find a way to do it by nickel and diming your customers. That rarely works out.

[Palm_Beach]

What chores/duties is he performing when he is not giving lessons? Your opening paragraph says, “We worked out his base compensation for the Barn Manager duties.” Then you talk about him being “on our clock.” Are you paying by the hour for the Barn Manager portion? It sounds to me that you are paying a fixed salary for Barn Manager duties, expecting him to be there all day, and then also treating him as an hourly employee by commenting that he is “on our clock.” If he has completed all his Barn Manager duties, he is not “on the clock.” If you are paying a fixed salary then he is an Exempt employee and as long as he gets all his Barn Manager duties done, he can do what he wants when he wants.

[IronwoodFarm]

Are you paying your trainer a base salary that is sufficient enough to support him without any addtional work? Or are you paying a base salary that must be augmented by fees from lessons and other activities to create a sufficient wage? I am more familiar with the latter model. Does your trainer get days off? Is so, then what he does with his time on his days off would be his own business.

I agree with soloudinhere that “nickel and diming” does not pay. I also think it is important to form a partnership with your trainers and be supportive of their success. Most trainers that I know would not be happy with your expectations. If the work is getting done and you are getting your share of the income, then I would leave it alone. Or just be prepared for the trainer and his clients to leave your barn. Perhaps you should analyze the impact of his departure on your bottom line at least for the short haul. It might not be worth the extra bits of income you are searching for.

[Wonders12]

Is it the barn’s training program or is it his training program? Ex: when he goes to shows is he going as “XYZ Stables” or is he going as “John Smith Training” at XYZ Stables? For my answers, I’m going to assume he’s “XYZ Stables”.

You need to choose your priorities. Is it building a successful training business or running a good boarding operation? Is he doing a good job as a barn manager? Are you concerned about some perceived conflicts or blatant not meeting his barn manager responsibilities to prioritize training?

Your best solution is really to put him on full salary. Then you control what his time and priorities are. But you also maintain the risk of paying out the salary regardless of what is coming in. This model could include bonuses like horse show coaching fees and commissions.

Short of that, if your priority is reducing your risk, you also need to let some control go. I think it’s time for you and BM to sit down and hash out some of this stuff. 54 hour weeks is not over the top for a trainer and barn manager, but if he doesn’t want to work that, then you need to come to a solution. Can you hire someone minimum wage (or work off lessons) 5 hours a week to take off some small tasks and get him under 50 hours? Can you figure out how to farm out 2 of his least favorite tasks (this can do a lot for morale and overall feeling about the job!)? Can you both agree on a barn manager schedule where he is full on barn manager, no training work during those hours?

If you want to keep the same setup, I think the answers to your questions are: Horse shows - he keeps all coaching fees, but if he’s away on a regular BM work day, that’s a vacation day for him. (Just like if I left my office job to go to a horse show for the day.) Commissions - Finders fees are his. There is no reason the farm should get a cut of a trainer’s commission on finding a horse. (But again, if he takes off a regular work day to go try the horse, then that’s a vacation day.) However, I could definitely see a commission split on a sale horse if he’s selling/marketing the horse under the farm’s name.

I think you need to be really really careful. It sounds like you’re trying to get the best of both worlds, and that rarely works out.

ETA: Realizing you’re the same poster as the Pastures/Dry Stall Thread, I think you need to sit down and reflect and create a business plan. The answer is rarely nickle and diming. Decide what you can offer at what rates (including “upgrades” to services where appropriate) and go from there. In a new business, you will have to adjust, but these are two significant areas of oversight. I think it would be worth your time to really look at your business before diving into either of these issues.

[BOGCE]

@Wonders12

Is it the barn’s training program or is it his training program? Ex: when he goes to shows is he going as “XYZ Stables” or is he going as “John Smith Training” at XYZ Stables? For my answers, I’m going to assume he’s “XYZ Stables”.

You need to choose your priorities. Is it building a successful training business or running a good boarding operation? Is he doing a good job as a barn manager? Are you concerned about some perceived conflicts or blatant not meeting his barn manager responsibilities to prioritize training?

Your best solution is really to put him on full salary. Then you control what his time and priorities are. But you also maintain the risk of paying out the salary regardless of what is coming in. This model could include bonuses like horse show coaching fees and commissions.

Short of that, if your priority is reducing your risk, you also need to let some control go. I think it’s time for you and BM to sit down and hash out some of this stuff. 54 hour weeks is not over the top for a trainer and barn manager, but if he doesn’t want to work that, then you need to come to a solution. Can you hire someone minimum wage (or work off lessons) 5 hours a week to take off some small tasks and get him under 50 hours? Can you figure out how to farm out 2 of his least favorite tasks (this can do a lot for morale and overall feeling about the job!)? Can you both agree on a barn manager schedule where he is full on barn manager, no training work during those hours?

If you want to keep the same setup, I think the answers to your questions are: Horse shows - he keeps all coaching fees, but if he’s away on a regular BM work day, that’s a vacation day for him. (Just like if I left my office job to go to a horse show for the day.) Commissions - Finders fees are his. There is no reason the farm should get a cut of a trainer’s commission on finding a horse. (But again, if he takes off a regular work day to go try the horse, then that’s a vacation day.) However, I could definitely see a commission split on a sale horse if he’s selling/marketing the horse under the farm’s name.

I think you need to be really really careful. It sounds like you’re trying to get the best of both worlds, and that rarely works out.

ETA: Realizing you’re the same poster as the Pastures/Dry Stall Thread, I think you need to sit down and reflect and create a business plan. The answer is rarely nickle and diming. Decide what you can offer at what rates (including “upgrades” to services where appropriate) and go from there. In a new business, you will have to adjust, but these are two significant areas of oversight. I think it would be worth your time to really look at your business before diving into either of these issues.

It is the barns training program that would go to shows as “XYZ Stables”. He is listed under our barns insurance policy as our trainer and we cover that cost.

I’m concerned about perceived conflicts. His base salary is a full salary and is comfortable enough to support him in our area.

Like I said, we pay him a full salary that any other job would not only require an employee to do his job, but to also show up for a normal 40 hour work week. He is at the barn for 54 hours but roughly half is devoted to our training program where he received additional compensation for. We have been discussing ways to keep him happy but at a certain point I want to know if I’m receiving the short end of the stick with all the risk.

[ladyj79]

You think this trainer is screwing you. You want him to work more for you and/or pay you more from his business.

Honestly, you should let this guy go, find someone whom you only allow to work for you, ie all monies for services go to you and you just pay trainer a salary.

It seems from your threads you are very very very conscious of getting what you feel is your share, and think you are being used. It’s just better for you, given your feelings, to have an exclusive arrangement with a trainer.

Then when you are unhappy you’ll know exactly where the problem lies.

[Highflyer]

But if he doesn’t teach those lessons, you would have to pay someone else more, right? If he doesn’t go to the shows won’t you have to pay someone else to take the clients and manage the horses that are competing?

[BOGCE]

@ladyj79

You think this trainer is screwing you. You want him to work more for you and/or pay you more from his business.

Honestly, you should let this guy go, find someone whom you only allow to work for you, ie all monies for services go to you and you just pay trainer a salary.

It seems from your threads you are very very very conscious of getting what you feel is your share, and think you are being used. It’s just better for you, given your feelings, to have an exclusive arrangement with a trainer.

Then when you are unhappy you’ll know exactly where the problem lies.

Yes, as a business owner I am conscious about getting what is my share. Its not about feelings, its business. Reading other threads posted by BO’s, so are they. We came here to ask for each others input and opinions. Wether we think we are paying too much for shavings/hay or receiving too little for our services. I posted two questions for two issues I’m currently facing to receive input before taking any action.

In this case, he is not paying more from HIS business. He is an arm of MY business in which I am paying for all the expenses. Trainers insurance is covered by us and not paid by him. If business slows down but he gives some lessons, hes still taking home money. If business slows down and I don’t make enough from our lesson program, I still have to pay for our lesson horses. If a lesson horse needs time off or needs vet attention, I am footing the bill.

In this case where he is an arm of my business and he teaches lessons that stroll in because they stopped by my barn - not because of the fact that they heard he trains at my barn - then I want to know what I am allowed to ask what compensation I get. Yes, I also understand that keeping clients from taking lessons is a good trainer or else they would leave. I am very happy with the work hes doing - but I want to know what is reasonable to know what I am entitled to.

[ladyj79]

The issue is you aren’t really asking. You want more and you are looking for confirmation of your preconceived beliefs.

Again, I suggest you let this person go: rest assured you probably don’t hide your resentment any better with him than you do in prose. Start over with another trainer.

or, as I stated on your other thread, sit back down with this trainer and hash out whatever arrangement you won’t complain about.

[CHT]

When I worked at a big barn as assistant/groom to the trainers our arrangement was that we got a percentage of the board for all the horses we were in charge of (our clients), and the barn got a percentage of all our lessons. They did not get show fees or commissions. Lesson horse lessons were split 50/50. The barn did all the billing for services run out of their facility, but we billed the show fees/commissions ourselves. If we were at shows, yes, we weren’t around to help with the barn management, but the stable saved money as the horses weren’t there. There was no base salary once the business got going.

[Wonders12]

@BOGCE

It is the barns training program that would go to shows as “XYZ Stables”. He is listed under our barns insurance policy as our trainer and we cover that cost.

I’m concerned about perceived conflicts. His base salary is a full salary and is comfortable enough to support him in our area.

Like I said, we pay him a full salary that any other job would not only require an employee to do his job, but to also show up for a normal 40 hour work week. He is at the barn for 54 hours but roughly half is devoted to our training program where he received additional compensation for. We have been discussing ways to keep him happy but at a certain point I want to know if I’m receiving the short end of the stick with all the risk.

Ahhh, see, this is very important and significantly changes things.

I think you need to fully restructure your pay. And, unfortunately, that will likely include either getting a new instructor or paying your current one more than you would want to (which is basically what you’re already doing). Because, while I can’t guarantee it without knowing more, I suspect you’re being taken for a bit of a ride. However, it was what you agreed to…

Knowing this, I think a few things need to happen.

1. You and BM need to discuss his hours. Does he want to work less for a pay cut, or does he want to maintain? (Assuming you’re being honest about paying a fair and livable wage.)
2. All money comes through the business. Clients never write him a check. Really, this is for liability reasons. If he’s on your insurance, the clients need to purchase the service from the business who is insured to provide the service.
3. Change to a salary + bonus structure. This may mean increasing his base salary slightly. What does your business plan say about the lesson numbers you need? He should have a minimum and goal amounts each month. How you quantify it is up to you. (Ex: $X in training revenue or Y number of lessons per week or Z number of clients in training.) Then you set up a bonus structure. If he does Y + Z he gets an $X bonus. For shows, I do think he should get all/a majority of the coaching fees because shows are more work. But you and he decide what/how many shows he will go to. And you set the rate that, again, goes through the business.

Good luck! Not an easy situation to be in.