I think she knew two horses that recently shipped to NB and then to Cranberry auction. So there is a personal connection to the issue /horses, even if she doesn’t ride at the barn that sent the horses to auction?!
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Obviously you have 3 issues:
- Asking a minor to lie - which is wrong. Minor should refer those inquiries to Manager/Owner.
2, They lie themselves about disposal of horses - “going to friends” is the only lie, there. “sold” is true: they went to auction to be sold off the barns expense sheet. No, they shouldn’t have said horses were going to friends, only sold. - They sell the horses at auction instead of spending time and money to rehome, rehab or euth. This is legal and obviously the norm for this barn.
1 and 2 are not the norm. But there is no requirement for a seller to ever disclose what where why and to whom they sell to anyone outside of the transaction - except maybe the IRS.
3 There is no norm. Each does as they see fit. If it is legal, you can ‘moralize’ all you want, but that doesn’t change whether this is a good business decision for them.
Now, if you want to assume ownership of the horse at approximate auction price and take on all bills for said horse and remove the horse from their business and property immediately on notification they are done with the horse, and propose that with a signed agreement with the owner in advance of them choosing to dispose of the horse?
That would be a very nice thing to do.
And not cheap.
Trying to control others without compensating them - because ‘they are immoral’ is not a healthy mental state.
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Well, your initial post was aimed at a specific barn, not presented in the format of an industry wide problem. And the barn you referred to and implied also engaged in abusive practices sure doesn’t sound like the best, brightest and most expensive around your area.
Its hard to deduce meaning sometimes just from text in cyberspace. I read it as a condemnation of this particular barn using a particular auction with a beginner program and kids as barn staff, not as a universal problem.
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Indeed.
If you got lots of money then spend it as you want to. But don’t tell others how to spend theirs.
As far as “fanciful” stories about sales, if it’s not your horse then let it go.
Or, put another way, never miss a good chance to be quiet.
G.
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Quite honestly, the barn owners can move their horses on however they want to. It would definitely be nicer if they did the recommended vet treatment or tried to find a private buyer, but not everyone is going to do things that way. You don’t like that they send them to auction? Don’t do business there. It certainly isn’t illegal to auction horses.
The not telling the kids kids where they go thing? Yeah, I don’t think it’s the clients’ business, unless it’s their own horses being shipped off when they thought they were sold to someone else. Barns I rode at as a kid probably made up stories for me too about where the schoolies went. That’s sad but I didn’t own them and had no say about where they went. They were treated well when they were in those barns though.
And finally- most businesses are going to encourage their employees to not trash talk the people they work for. If they don’t like what’s happening there, I would assume they’re more than welcome to find employment elsewhere. This post just sounds like a troll looking to start some COTH drama and it’s a bit silly.
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I think the OP (who I do think has some troll posts) was involved in the situation where the lesson horse that was “sent to friends in NH” ended up at the New Holland sale and Cranbury auction. Several people on this BB appear to know this horse.
I know of two local barns and trainers that have sent lesson horses to the local high kill auction. One took the horse home early when a lot of social pressure came up (also some question of the trainer taking it to the sale to threaten a non paying client), the other didn’t even look twice. Second horse was rescued by the barn owner’s former trainer who knew the horse personally and was there specifically to make sure it didn’t go to the killer.
There’s also a lot of social pressure because trainers have to make a living, and would you want to shut down a barn just because the trainer had to make ends meet by sending unsuitable lesson horses to auction.
Personally I would never sell, suggest anyone sell, or even send anyone to a barn like that for lessons period. If you are so desperate to make ends meet that you have to send horses to auctions then you are on the edge of the entire operation crashing to the ground.
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Could you imagine the outcry from a mother on this board if they told their darling child that the horse went to the auction? “Now little darling child is so upset because we couldn’t go buy their favorite pony!”
Its no ones’ business what the BO does…if you aren’t stepping up to purchase the horses, then take a step back.
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I also want to add something to the “out west” great retirements. Nah, craigslist out here looks just the same.
But also from long standing practices, I happen to be friends with some old ranchers. Real ranchers, with thousands of acres. And some of them, when a horse is retired, turn the horse out. And I mean ALL THE WAY out, on the range, with maybe other horses, maybe with the cows, and that’s kind of it. And sometimes they might come across the body, but sometimes not. Because there are other predators for sick old horses.
Better or worse? I don’t know. Horse businesses, and the life of horses past usefulness, is rarely romantic.
Europeans are almost all far more utilitarian than we are, they don’t have the space, so old or not useable horses go straight to frikandel.
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In some places, decent horses sell at auctions. Hell, some really NICE horses, even. At my local auction last month, the high-selling horse was $9,000, and yes, this is probably considered a “high kill” auction with a handful of meat buyers in attendance, empty semi-trailers parked waiting in the lot to be filled. Prices range from ~$20.00-$10k, with the lower end horses being the ones that are dropped off with no information about age, health, training, etc. and run through the pen loose. These are also the ones that get listed once they’ve shipped up to WA as “waiting to ship” and are re-sold for hefty profits.
I don’t think it’s as “commonplace” as the OP thinks for this type of thing to happen, lesson barns sending their reject horses off, but at the end of the day it IS a reliable way to get them sold off your payroll quickly without having to deal with ten dozen tire-kicking kids or some Suzy-the-next-Olympian looking to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Paying to feed and keep a useless mouth adds up quick, as we all know. The lying about sending them off hints at the fact that someone in charge knows the practice is going to be viewed as distasteful by clients. It doesn’t sound like a reputable barn to me.
I know too many people who optimistically thought that giving their old or injured, no longer useful horse away to a “good home” would end well. The truth is, most of the time, it doesn’t. It’s far kinder to euthanize than to give the horse away to some stranger that will most likely starve and neglect your beloved beast until it dies (or dump it at auction).
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While knowledgeable horse people know that euthanasia is preferable to an auction, I can tell you that MANY people who aren’t in the know would infinitely rather hear that “Dobbin was sold to another family at an auction” than “we put Dobbin down because he was too old and too lame to do his job.”
I’ve owned horses long enough that I am at peace with euthanizing horses when it is the best available option, but to young lesson students or people who don’t know better, it seems like a brutal and horrifying thing to do. When I once euthanized a horse with a compound leg fracture who was boarded at a large barn (not mine) with many clients and students, people showed me articles about leg prosthetics for horses, articles about famous thoroughbreds receiving super expensive hospital care for months, horses in slings, etc, and asked me how I could “give up so easily.” I can’t imagine being the owner of a lesson barn and trying to explain euthanasia of a non-dramatically injured or lame horse to students and clients.
Even some people who should know better would rather fantasize that a horse got lucky and got a good home through an auction than confront the actual peaceful and dignified death of that animal.
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I’m well aware there are high end auctions. I attend auctions monthly. What I object to is people sending their used up lesson horses to the local low end auctions where they know kill buyers are present without putting a reserve on a horse that’s at least above meat prices. Heck, most of those people don’t even bother sticking around. The check comes in the mail and they can imagine that Dobbin went to a nice family.
While it might be a good business decision to get a washed up lesson horse off the feed bill quickly it isn’t good horsemanship.
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Well, I would be careful what I allowed barn staff to discuss with clients.
When I was 15 I worked at a local lesson barn to pay off my own lessons. One of the favorite school horses was euth’d due to colic. Being a matter of fact kinda kid, when a young girl showed up saying “I want to ride Dobbin today, where is he?” I told her that he was PTS. As a young kid myself I was not prepared to deal with an 8 year old’s reaction to that kind of news. I was also chewed out by the kid’s parents. The barn owner sat me down and suggested that in the future I let her be the one to have those kinds of conversations. I learned my lesson.
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It may be by many horsemen, here and in Europe.
Your opinion is one. There are obviously many opposed world wide.
My horses are euthed at home - I have the time, resources and burial land available. That doesn’t make me a horseman and a person who sells a horse at auction not a horseman. I also don’t run a lesson program needing 10-20 usable horses.
And a horseman with 5 ‘retired’ pasture puff high maintenance unrideable animals that used to have 10 lesson horses and now has 4 is not teaching anyone horsemanship or riding because he cannot afford the lesson horses or increased staff time to run the now much larger operation. And is bringing in less to no $$.
Which means he will be out of horses completely in short order.
So no lessons for kids or adults. - Is that good for wannabe riders not to have the opportunity to take lessons?
Again; if YOU want to provide a safe landing for an old or useless schoolie, arrange for that. And what a fine gesture.
Otherwise, I disagree that you have the right to condemn.
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I once boarded Cloudy and Callie with a barn owner who told the brutal truth about the horses and barn cats to all the children who boarded there. I hated to hear what she did/allowed with animals, but at least she told the truth. (I did ask her to kill the mangled squirrel that the cats were playing with when she came up to me and told me not to take the squirrel to my vet. She killed the squirrel by running over him with the old four wheeler.)
I personally think it is better to put a horse down rather than send it off to auction to maybe the starved or slaughtered. That’s why I don’t sell or give away any animals.
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Just because dumping an old lesson horse at auction is cheap/easy doesn’t necessarily make it a good business practice (at least from my POV). The same way dumping trash in the woods behind the store might be cheap/easy doesn’t necessarily make it a good business practice. I’m not a bleeding heart who thinks a lesson barn has to keep every horses that crosses their path until it dies from old age, but there are a lot of options between that and regularly trucking horses to an auction like NH. If we’re talking about a good lesson horse that you used and made money from and now needs to step down from that life… First you try to find someone who can use the horse kindly (even if you’re giving it away/free leasing), then you consider whether you can afford to turn it out/retire it (or whether someone else can for a nominal cost, then you put it down if that’s the best option. We’re talking about the difference between getting $150-300 from NH or paying $150-300 to euthanize a horse. I would hope a business wasn’t so hard up that the needed the $150 and could instead pay the $150. The same way I would hope a business could rent a $30/month dumpster rather than littering. I know it’s not a perfect analogy-- but my point is that just because there’s a “cheapest” or “easiest” option doesn’t mean that option has be to be one chosen. Businesses can have standards too.
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Many lesson programs make a very small amount of profit. The profit made must support…
-
the animals, (working school horses + BO/Trainer private horses + farm pets)
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the people, (BO, BM, barn workers, and sometimes these folks families)
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the facility, (up keep, utilities, taxes).
It is not uncommon that lesson programs simply cannot afford to support horses with illnesses or injuries or any condition that renders the animal a drain on the program’s income.
In this economy it is nearly impossible for horse trainers to be able to retire old, or unusable, school horses. Many trainers don’t own the facility they teach out of and most facilities do not have adequate pasture for the usable animals.
It is not right, but is is a reality for many.
Vote with your feet and your wallet if you don’t like the way the program is run.
Rescue an old school horse if and when you can.
As to keeping the above info a secret, well who in their right mind would broadcast those facts and still think they could stay in business?
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I agree with your post regarding business practices. However, in most areas the total cost of euthanasia and disposal (don’t forget, the 1200 lb. carcass needs to be hauled away or buried) is much higher. It might be $150 for the vet visit, but it might be $200-500 to pay someone to come and haul away/dispose of the dead horse. Even if you bury it–assuming that you are allowed to in your neck of the woods, thats a big (and gruesome) job that takes all afternoon and requires the use of a backhoe (probably about $200/day to rent). I’ve never euthanized a horse and disposed of it for less than $350, and I’m in an area where it is generally less expensive for things like that. I was once charged over $300 just for euthanasia by a high end vet clinic–they charged me for an “exam” on a horse that I had asked them to simply come and euthanize. So the economic difference between sending a horse to auction vs. euthanizing might be closer to, say, $800. I’m not defending the choice, but I do know that there are a lot of lesson barns to whom $800 is a lot of money.
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I think a lot of things changed when slaughter houses became less prevalent and then moved out of the country entirely. I feel like the worst part of the slaughter pipeline is the transportation. In the 70s and 80s when I was in Massachusetts, the owner of the barn where I kept my horse had a network of buddies around New England and the eastern seaboard. They all kept their eyes open for each other’s markets and particular needs. At that time if there was no market for a horse it went to the glue factory which may or may not have been an actual glue factory but was definitely local and required no special horrible transportation.
This was a business and that was good and bad for the horses. A lot of effort went into matching up horses and riders – my sister sold a horse that went to Florida where he lived happily despite minor stiffness and lameness. The buyer basically wanted a pasture ornament/grandchild pony ride. There wasn’t Internet at that time nor would that guy in Florida have found or paid to transport a horse in Massachusetts – the network had trips up and down the coast all the time. But there were also wasn’t a magical retirement farm so if the effort did not produce results, it was the glue factory.
Now I’m on the West Coast and I know a wrangler/pack trip organizer who I can tell used to operate under the same business model. In its absence, he dumps horses at auction. Most of the people I knew from the East Coast are retired or have passed away so I don’t know what is being done out there now. I don’t think that it was a horrible situation and I don’t think it has been replaced by something that is ethically AND economically feasible.
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