Barn renovation, frost free hydrants?

[alakazam]

I recently purchased a farm and am in the process of converting a block barn that was used for cattle to a horse stable. The water line coming in from the house is leaking, and so we will be replacing the line. Question is, what kind of hydrant or pipe is best for inside the barn?

My excavator says frost free hydrants break after 5 years and need to be fixed/replaced. I’m not exactly sure what he is suggesting I do instead.

My general contractor says go with frost free. He’s lived on a farm and has animals, so I’m not sure who’s opinion is best.

This is my first time having horses on my own property. I’ve always boarded prior to this, so I’m trying to learn about all this as we go.

I’m in South east PA.

[clanter]

@alakazam

My excavator says frost free hydrants break after 5 years

maybe he should read the installation instructions as the life span of good frost free hydrants is many decades or longer as long as you disconnect hoses so the hydrant can drain as intended

While we are not in the great frozen north country our hydrants here were installed over thirty years ago …none have had to be replaced or even repaired… adjustments have been needed but the hydrants are designed to be adjusted as they age (or after repeated times where the hoses have not been disconnected in freezing conditions)

[JB]

I’ve had my frost-free hydrant, outside the barn, for at least 10 years now.

Where I rode and boarded for 30 years had theirs at least that long.

I hope your excavator isn’t the one who’s supposed to be putting in that hydrant!

And what does “break” mean? Is he (or whomever) digging shallow trenches and things are freezing and bursting? That’s an installation problem.

[alakazam]

I didn’t ask what he meant by “break”. I can ask what he meant and how far down he’d dig.
Also, I didn’t realize leaving a hose on compromises the hydrant. Learning already, thanks!

[Mango20]

You really have to have frost free or you’ll end up with frozen pipes.

Mine is now 20 years old. It has been installed for 20 years, but sat in my father’s garage, uninstalled for many years before that (while I, as a child, had to haul 200’ of hose from the house to the barn and back every few days). Two years ago, I bought a kit of replacement inner parts for it for $30 because the plunger at the bottom stopped stopping the water. Two pipe wrenches, and my son and I, got the very old top unscrewed and we fixed it ourselves with no digging.

[clanter]

@alakazam

Learning already,

buy an American made hydrant, parts will be readily available unlike imported which are throw away

We have always used Woodford hydrants (they have been in business since the 1920s) , parts are available if need. Be sure to buy hydrants designed for your freeze depths (Or Greater)

Just do not pickup whats on the shelf at the store, you can order what you need

https://www.woodfordmfg.com/woodford/Yard_Hydrant_Pages/Model-y34.html

[2DogsFarm]

Excavator is wrong.
Period.
Yes, components of a frostfree hydrant can break, but are generally easy to replace.
And the whole aboveground assembly is not that costly.
My current hydrant is over 10yrs & works as good as on Day One.
It is located inside my barn, close to an uninsulated metal exterior wall.
The worst repair I had to have done was replace a leaking line that was 4’ underground… in February.
I believe the leak was cause by compressing the ground above the line when I had that area scraped down 9", geotex, then gravel spread over it.

And yes, do not leave the hose attached in temps below freezing.
My Rule is to remove the hose when it gets to 40F at night. Maybe overkill, but it helps me remember to do it.
I used heat tape & foam insulating wrap on the standing pipe until the guy who did the repair for the leak told me that wasn’t necessary.
In the 10yrs since I stopped wrapping + 2 Polar Vortex Winters & hydrant works fine.

[LCDR]

A little off from the original question but a couple of the barn builders around here put the hydrants in the barn aisles, and then have concrete poured around them. Should the hydrant ever need replacement, the barn owners will be tearing up concrete.

To eliminate that future problem, my builder used a wood frame about 18”x18” on the surface around the hydrant to keep the concrete far enough away so excavation could be done later without having to break up and re-pour concrete. He used gravel inside the frame. Looks good and gives me a little peace of mind.

[alakazam]

Yep, we will definitely be doing this!

[alakazam]

So, so helpful, thank you!

[Mango20]

@clanter

buy an American made hydrant, parts will be readily available unlike imported which are throw away

We have always used Woodford hydrants (they have been in business since the 1920s) , parts are available if need. Be sure to buy hydrants designed for your freeze depths (Or Greater)

Good point. Mine is a Merrill, and despite being 30-40 years old, I was still able to order a kit for the internal parts for it. I also was able to contact them to make sure it would work in such an old hydrant.

[trubandloki]

I agree with the others. A properly installed frost free yard hydrants should work well for a good long time.

That is said by someone who has had to dig up both of their hydrants already. Neither hydrant died by any fault of their own.
Hydrant in the barn had to be replaced because a horse got loose in the barn one day and used the hydrant as a scratching post and bent the vertical pipe enough that the plunger rod could no longer work. I wish I had a photo of it. Very creative destruction of the hydrant and they pulled down and opened like six bales of hay. Fun day for horse.
The outside hydrant was dug up because we had a water leak. After we dug it up we realized the leak was where the pipe connected at the bottom and was not because of anything improperly installed but it was obvious that someone (we assume the propane delivery truck) had hit the hydrant and hit it hard enough to move it/bend it, and then they bent it back/moved it back and went on their way. The hydrant mysteriously stopped working and the water leak happened on a day when we were not home and it was not that cold and the dug up riser pipe had a very interesting shape it did not have before.

I can tell you that having to dig up a yard hydrant does lead to quite a bit of grumpiness.

This long rambling post is just a reminder to install them somewhere that you can dig them up if you need to. Hopefully the better the installation location the less likely you will have to dig it up.

[PaddockWood]

Yep Woodford Y34 from research on this board. AND, when you install (we did three last summer) one good idea is to set your hydrant down in a plastic tube pipe and fill with small stone. Then, if you ever
have to dig up it only takes a couple minutes. I already had to dig mine up to move the unit a bit
and wow was that convenient.

I can put up pictures if that helps.

[sing]

We just replaced our 35 year old Simmons hydrant. Went with the same manufacturer, they were great to work with.

[Equibrit]

Don’t use quick disconnects to attach the hose in the winter. All the water left in the faucet has to drain in to the ground and they prevent that. I have several types and this is the best.

[LCDR]

If you are not acquainted with how a frostless hydrant works, the valve that allows running water and shuts it off is at the bottom of the hydrant pipe, far enough underground to be below the frost line in your area. A rod to control it runs up through the hydrant’s steel tube to a handle that slides it up and down. When you shut off the hydrant, water left in the vertical pipe where it may be exposed to freezing temperatures drains down through a weep hole and then out into the unfrozen ground at the buried end of the hydrant.

A hose attached to the hydrant with a closed nozzle on its end creates a vacuum lock and water won’t drain out to empty the hydrant pipe. If the attached hose is not sealed by a closed nozzle, the vacuum to drain the hydrant pipe can be created and the hydrant drains and should not freeze.

But, as an added level of safety it is best to uncouple a hose from the hydrant if freezing temperatures are predicted, to be sure that the hydrant tube is completely drained.

[trubandloki]

@LCDR

the vacuum to drain the hydrant pipe can be created and the hydrant drains and should not freeze.

To add to this - Provided your installation can accommodate the amount of water in a time frame that allows it to all drain away before anything freezes.

[clanter]

@LCDR

If the attached hose is not sealed by a closed nozzle, the vacuum to drain the hydrant pipe can be created and the hydrant drains and should not freeze.

if the hose has been coiled up hanging, the bottom of each loop act like a P trap, it will not drain … but if you break the seal by loosing the hose at the hydrant the hydrant should drain (but good old hose will or can be frozen unless drained)

We had hydrants set at 42 inches in Kentucky then the great winters of the late 1970s froze the hydrants AND the water lines… gave up moved south.

[LCDR]

Thanks for the clarification. When I just loosen the hose connection I usually forget to re-tighten it, and then I get sprayed with icy water.

[trubandloki]

@clanter

here we have shut off valves were we can isolate each water line, when there is a branch line we start with a shut off valve. Also have a primary valve at the start of the waterlines that will shut all lines off.

We had an irrigation contractor install the lines during their slow season, they came in with three trenchers and four crews to lay about 1400 feet of line in one day

We too have the ability to shut things off. We installed it that way on purpose.

That does not negate the grumpiness caused by lots of digging.

@LCDR

Thanks for the clarification. When I just loosen the hose connection I usually forget to re-tighten it, and then I get sprayed with icy water.

That is why you unscrew it all the way. So it is obvious it is not attached.

We have to take the hose back inside the heated garage every time anyway, so taking it all the way off would be happening anyway.