Barn Rules Over Time

[OverandOnward]

@Demerara_Stables

But how do you GET the experience without the horror of falling off your horse off property while wearing shorts, rubber boots, no helmet, bareback in a halter and lead, and watching her gallop across a public road to get back to the barn?!

In all seriousness, sometimes you have to fall off and make mistakes to learn. And those are the lessons that stick with you. 🤷 (To be clear, I have no tolerance for things that are dangerous to the horses, just things that are dangerous to me. )

I didn’t make my point very well. A great many of the current riding students that I know of don’t do any other outdoor activities. They are unfamiliar with the most ordinary perceptions of space and touch in outdoor settings.

They are unfamiliar with animals other than their domestic pets, which live in a very artificial, routine environment. Most haven’t learned to observe animals, or recognize much natural behavior.

They don’t judge space very well. They don’t know if a circle is “big” or “small”. They don’t judge the way to lead a horse – an animal as long as a sofa – with enough spacial discretion to turn it in a way that the horse can accommodate the surrounding obstacles.

Away from the barn, they must spend most of their time on-screen, because they don’t have much manual dexterity, either. For handling ropes, tack, anything really. They have never buckled a buckle - a big learning step.

Of those I personally know, a very few are engaged in other sports that broaden their adaptation to the physical world. Most are not.

They can get these experiences at the barn. But they need some time to be better oriented to a 3-dimensional world. Then they will be less dangerous to themselves and to the animals they deal with, outside.

Then it is time to do more with horses, independently. Make less lethal mistakes to learn from.

[Demerara_Stables]

I understand, and have seen the same. But I think these kids need to be at the barn more, where they can learn these skills. Maybe it’s not directly handling horses right off the bat, but saying

@OverandOnward

But they need some time to be better oriented to a 3-dimensional world. Then they will be less dangerous to themselves and to the animals they deal with, outside.

and implying that they need to go somewhere else to learn these skills is downplaying the importance of being a barn rat. Learn how to clean stalls, clean tack, sweep the aisle, wrap a leg, etc. All of the time spent at the barn doing something, anything, useful, will improve their ability to safely handle a horse and ride.

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

@OverandOnward

They come from a different world and just don’t have the kind of experience that would teach them how to keep themselves safe.

But how do you GET the experience without the horror of falling off your horse off property while wearing shorts, rubber boots, no helmet, bareback in a halter and lead, and watching her gallop across a public road to get back to the barn?!

In all seriousness, sometimes you have to fall off and make mistakes to learn. And those are the lessons that stick with you. 🤷 (To be clear, I have no tolerance for things that are dangerous to the horses, just things that are dangerous to me. )

You do it without endangering other peoples horses, which means not doing it in a pasture where other peoples horses are loose.

[OverandOnward]

@Demerara_Stables

I understand, and have seen the same. But I think these kids need to be at the barn more, where they can learn these skills. Maybe it’s not directly handling horses right off the bat, but saying

@OverandOnward

But they need some time to be better oriented to a 3-dimensional world. Then they will be less dangerous to themselves and to the animals they deal with, outside.

and implying that they need to go somewhere else to learn these skills is downplaying the importance of being a barn rat. Learn how to clean stalls, clean tack, sweep the aisle, wrap a leg, etc. All of the time spent at the barn doing something, anything, useful, will improve their ability to safely handle a horse and ride.

“implying that they need to go somewhere else to learn these skills is downplaying the importance of being a barn rat.”

That’s not what I implied, stated or intended – you edited my para to deliberately miss what I said, I don’t know why … quoting myself, as you did, but the full para …

@OverandOnward

They can get these experiences at the barn. But they need some time to be better oriented to a 3-dimensional world. Then they will be less dangerous to themselves and to the animals they deal with, outside.

[EventingMaff]

Oh – my post was not in any way meant to downplay the importance of rules. Only to highlight the feral-ness of my past in good fun.

I do agree with down-stream posters though that there is a vicious cycle occurring where liability and insurance are making these “feral” choices MUCH riskier with way more significant consequences at play. As a result rules tighten, kids get limited chances to engage in risky choices, lessons are not learned and then we complain about the ridiculously dumb rules we have to make to keep people safe.

I’m not pointing fingers…just naming the phenomenon at play. It is what it is and no single group is to be blamed – insurance is great, but it shifts risk profiles of those who need / use it which reduces risky choices that are often life’s greatest lessons.

I will say, one “choice” that I do notice increasingly amongst younger kids is they move to full-sized horses much faster. Half of the feral sh*t i got away with in my youth was because the risk was SO much lower when doing it on a 12.1h pony vs a 16h+ horse. #bringbackferalkidsonferalponies

[mvp]

@endlessclimb

Along with that:

Don’t tie your horse to fence boards.
Don’t tie your horse to round pen panels.
Don’t tie your horse to the gate.

Hehe. A trainer friend of mine used to say about a broke or quiet horse “You can tie this one to the swing set.”

I think that’s the greatest. She did that as a kid.

[OverandOnward]

@EventingMaff

I do agree with down-stream posters though that there is a vicious cycle occurring where liability and insurance are making these “feral” choices MUCH riskier with way more significant consequences at play. As a result rules tighten, kids get limited chances to engage in risky choices, lessons are not learned and then we complain about the ridiculously dumb rules we have to make to keep people safe.

I’m not pointing fingers…just naming the phenomenon at play. It is what it is and no single group is to be blamed – insurance is great, but it shifts risk profiles of those who need / use it which reduces risky choices that are often life’s greatest lessons.

This is very very true. The tolerance for risk is far lower. Because of the genuine chance of losing everything that a lifetime of work has built. If an injured or worse rider or parent or family is enraged and/or deeply grieved enough, over a deeply unfortunate accident.

I know of one lawsuit that has been going for over 8 years. Judges have ruled against the family that is suing. But the family appeals. Maybe they think that if they give up the lawsuit, their rider is then truly gone, the loss becomes even more real.

Horse people often have the bank account to be able to sue – and keep suing. That ordinary citizens may not have.

[pluvinel]

@OverandOnward

The tolerance for risk is far lower.

Read up on the arrest of Brittany Patterson, a Georgia mother who was arrested because “a concerned citizen” called the cops after they saw her son walking 1 mile into town.

These days I have talked to trainers who are afraid of making big corrections on a misbehaving stallion because of who will report them.

[quietann]

What if your horse follows.you into the tack room? (Fond memories of Feronia doing this a few times… Of course I backed her out, but she gets curious about things…)

[clanter]

well thirty years ago at least daughter was wearing her helmet

horse was a real kid’s horse, (well really a pony at 14.1+) but she was the best friend to many, many kids

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@EventingMaff

I will say, one “choice” that I do notice increasingly amongst younger kids is they move to full-sized horses much faster. Half of the feral sh*t i got away with in my youth was because the risk was SO much lower when doing it on a 12.1h pony vs a 16h+ horse. #bringbackferalkidsonferalponies

I rode at a hunter barn, and as a 5’1 person (if I’m really standing straight) who rides ponies, I was gobsmacked when at east two mothers independently started talking about how their twelve-year-old kids (no taller than me) were getting “huge” for their 14h ponies and had to move up to 16.2h horses.

As someone who likes clearly defined rules, I will say–it’s helpful to have rules (sometimes) to have a sense of the barn norms, beyond obvious ones like picking up aisle poop, as well as the fact that what seems obvious to people at the barn might not be obvious to outsiders.

As a dressage rider, I don’t care if there’s a no-jumping outside of lessons rule, but for some people that’s a deal-breaker. One barn I rode at once or twice (terrible fit) had a rule that was unspoken that if there was a child riding in the arena, no one was supposed to canter and I was taken to task when I unknowingly violated this. On the other hand, to me, it’s always seemed obvious that calling “door” is a good thing when entering the arena, but to newbies (or sometimes people from different barns), they don’t know this unless told.

[fivestrideline]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

it’s always seemed obvious that calling “door” is a good thing when entering the arena, but to newbies (or sometimes people from different barns), they don’t know this unless told.

This is one that definitely needs to be spelled out - it’s definitely not obvious unless you’ve been riding at a place that requires it! Especially to someone who has never ridden in an indoor.

Goes to show that “obvious” rules may not be. I think it’s good to spell out expectations!

[BeeHoney]

Over the years it has been amazing to me what rules / boundaries I have had to set with clients. I’ve had to tell people they can’t bring all their garbage / items from their home clean out and put them in the farm dumpster, that they can’t bring extra stuff from home to store at the farm (even if it appears that there is extra storage space that appears to be unused), that they can’t leave their spare car parked at the farm, that they can’t tie their horse to a water hydrant, that even if they have special permission to be on the farm after hours for a valid reason, that does not give them permission to bring alcohol and leave glass beer bottles in the aisle, that they can’t borrow stuff without asking, and that they can’t tell my employees to do things “their way” instead of following my instructions.

[Demerara_Stables]

@fivestrideline

This is one that definitely needs to be spelled out - it’s definitely not obvious unless you’ve been riding at a place that requires it! Especially to someone who has never ridden in an indoor.

100% agree that people don’t know this unless they’ve ridden in an indoor (🙋 happened to me!). However, saying this needs to be spelled out in a rule is a bit silly, and goes back to why I don’t have a list of rules at my barn. No one had to show me the rule that said “yell out door when you’re coming in.” I saw what was happening around me, used common sense, and started calling out door. Spelling out every little thing just invites people to say “oh that wasn’t a rule so I thought I could do it.” Be safe, use common sense. I’ll speak to someone a few times, especially for small, specific things, but if someone can’t use common sense and is disrespectful of the facility, other horses, or their people over and over again, they get asked to leave.

[Walk_N_Gal88]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

On the other hand, to me, it’s always seemed obvious that calling “door” is a good thing when entering the arena, but to newbies (or sometimes people from different barns), they don’t know this unless told.

I worked at a Walking Horse barn that this was a necessity at. We would ride in the super long hallway when weather was yucky. If you were riding down the entrance side of the hall, you could not see people entering the main doorway, so if someone walked out unannounced, they could get run over real easy. It only took once for that lesson to stick if it happened.

[Walk_N_Gal88]

@Demerara_Stables

Be safe, use common sense. I’ll speak to someone a few times, especially for small, specific things, but if someone can’t use common sense and is disrespectful of the facility, other horses, or their people over and over again, they get asked to leave.

Yup! That is why we asked the problem boarders to leave. Also why we will NEVER have boarders again if I can help it. There shouldn’t need to be three typed pages of rules to follow, especially when 95% of them were common sense things. The other 5% were things relating specifically to certain horses, their behavior, and needs.

[Renn_aissance]

@quietann

What if your horse follows.you into the tack room? (Fond memories of Feronia doing this a few times… Of course I backed her out, but she gets curious about things…)

I took my horse into the tack room a few years ago, as a fully grown adult with reasonable horse sense.

He was overheating, and the tack room was air conditioned. I’d given him a cold shower, but it was so hot and humid in the barn aisle that the fans weren’t cutting it to stabilize his body temperature and I didn’t want to run down the well.

I was the only one on the property at the time so I was not setting a bad example for the children. And in my defense, when the barn manager walked in half an hour later, she did agree with me that under the circumstances this was a logical thing to do. And, once he was stable and comfortable, of course I cleaned the floor.

He also came in once of his own accord. He ground ties better now.

[fivestrideline]

@Demerara_Stables

However, saying this needs to be spelled out in a rule is a bit silly, and goes back to why I don’t have a list of rules at my barn

Not being told these types of rules (speaking to calling door when entering) would give me EXTREME anxiety though - I appreciate being told these things instead of being expected to “figure it out”. I’m not saying you have to post a sign (I agree that is perhaps silly… but then again, a laminate sleeve is cheap!), but I don’t think it’s fair to expect people to figure out the barn rules by osmosis or mind reading. That’s a recipe for lots of broken rules and people always worrying they’re doing something wrong on accident.

Perhaps there’s a difference between “rules” and “expectations”, and some can be communicated verbally while others should be in a signed contract.

[Demerara_Stables]

@Walk_N_Gal88

Also why we will NEVER have boarders again if I can help it.

I should caveat by saying I also don’t have straight boarders, only horses in the training program, partially so I have a bit more control around what people do with their horses on my property.

[Demerara_Stables]

@fivestrideline

I appreciate being told these things instead of being expected to “figure it out”.

Totally valid, and I definitely do explain a lot of things to new boarders. Maybe because I’m small or because I like having a more personal approach with clients, but I’m happy to set expectations verbally when someone moves in. Things like: don’t loop the lead around your hand, keep dogs on leash, sweep up after yourself (although everyone usually does that on their own!), clean your tack , pick up manure in the arena, etc etc.