Barn switching to straight grass

[jennycash]

Current barn is switching all hay to straight orchard grass. Most of the horses at the barn are retired or hardly get ridden/worked so they are doing fine on the new diet. My current gelding competes and is ridden regularly, so he is not keeping weight. He doesn’t care for the grass and slowly picks on it throughout the day. I have started to implement alfalfa cubes, but he still doesn’t seem to be gaining. He currently is on the following diet.

1 lb of Stabilized Rice Bran
2 oz of Mega-cell vitamin
1/2 cup of canola oil
4 lbs of alfalfa cubes

Other than continuing to up the alfalfa cubes, are their any other recommendations to help gain/keep weight?

Thank you!

[goodhors]

Sounds like he needs actual grain added to his diet. Maybe not much, but your list is not showing any real grain.

We compete our horse, all on grass hay, grazing in summer. They get wet beet pulp daily, year around. It is a good filler, in the forage catagory. They feel full, but stay sane with their minimal grain (our own recipe mixed for us) daily. All are easy keepers, so about 2 pounds is the most anyone ever gets, even in hard work. It is cracked corn and oats, in varying proportions depending on time of year, soybean meal. They all look great, compete hard, hold their weight in work.

We vary the wet beet pulp quantity by the time of year, giving lots more in winter for the extra moisture benefit.

I would think adding some grain, not much, could help horse hold his weight eating the grass hay. Start small, WEIGH the quantity to keep amounts consistant. You might be surprised at how much grain weight a soup can holds!! Feed by weight, not volume (ex. is using scoops or cup measures you have not weighed). He might get more lively too, depending on his turnout, work schedule that exercises him. You can always give less if he gets silly on grain.

[BeeHoney]

Obviously there are some dietary changes going on here, but I would just like to add that whenever I’m working on putting weight on a horse, step one is a deworming and step two is a visit from the dentist.

Otherwise I second the suggestion of adding more grain. A horse that is in work and losing weight probably does need some additional carbohydrates in his diet. Your horse is getting fats and protein, but not enough calories. You can add calories via digestible fiber (beet pulp) and carbohydrates (grain). A good modern horse feed will likely have both beet pulp and grain.

Unless you are a very experienced person with some education in equine nutrition, I do not recommend trying to make up your own equine diet based on an amalgam of supplements. Horses are not a science project. Instead, use good quality forage as the basis of your horses diet (you’ve got this part down with the free choice hay and the alfalfa cubes) and then add a quality commercial feed (formulated by equine nutritionists) as needed. Lastly, small amounts of other supplements can be added or subtracted as desired.

The modern fear of carbohydrates in our horse’s diets is in many cases quite silly. First of all, many modern feeds are beet pulp based and have a lot of fats and are sort of “low carb” anyway. But secondly, if your horse is in work and losing weight, he probably NEEDS some carbohydrates.

[JB]

MegaCell is a pretty good v/m but it’s just that - a vitamin/mineral supplement.

I would drop that, and start with adding at least a ration balancer. If his weight loss is fairly quick, or significant, then you need a regular feed. Low NSC, decent calories.

But he really needs to be eating hay. How long has it been since the change? Is there an option to throw him a flake or 2 of alfalfa?

[TheJenners]

Grain. Something. Nothing you are feeding is giving enough calories.

What hay was he getting before?

[Outyougo]

“I wonder if horses and such
like all grasses equally much,
or some like spinach and prunes
and others like coconut macaroons?”

There is is a wide variety of grass used to make hay. Orchard grass is quite rich. Some horses do very well on fescue if grown the right was. Rye makes mice fine hay.

[jennycash]

@JB

MegaCell is a pretty good v/m but it’s just that - a vitamin/mineral supplement.

I would drop that, and start with adding at least a ration balancer. If his weight loss is fairly quick, or significant, then you need a regular feed. Low NSC, decent calories.

But he really needs to be eating hay. How long has it been since the change? Is there an option to throw him a flake or 2 of alfalfa?

Do you mind explaining the difference between the ration balancer and the vitamin supplement he is currently getting?

Its been about 2 months on the grass hay. I asked about buying bales of alfalfa but unfortunately was denied. (If one boarded starts buying different hay they think the rest of the facility will want to supply their own. Which I understand their reasoning) Thats why I started him on the alfalfa cubes.

[jennycash]

@TheJenners

Grain. Something. Nothing you are feeding is giving enough calories.

What hay was he getting before?

He has always succeeded on the diet before, which was alfalfa and free fed grass, along with the added fats. I am not a fan of the commercial grain and really didn’t need it because he did so well on his diet. Now being just grass, I am looking for other options.

[Larbear]

@jennycash

He has always succeeded on the diet before, which was alfalfa and free fed grass, along with the added fats. I am not a fan of the commercial grain and really didn’t need it because he did so well on his diet.

I know you asked about buying alfalfa bales and was denied but what about if you bought compressed bales (like Standlee compressed alfalfa) that you could keep at home? That way you could give me a flake of that when you go to the barn.

[mydogs]

Have you considered a non-gmo or wholefood grain?
http://thenaturallyhealthyhorse.com/organic-gmo-horse-feeds/

My horse is getting a non-gmo grain that a local company makes and I love it much better than the average grain (purina, triple crown, etc…). It is also not made with filler.
I have also heard good things about BioStar.

[Simkie]

@jennycash

Do you mind explaining the difference between the ration balancer and the vitamin supplement he is currently getting?

A ration balancer has protein and calories. A vitamin and mineral supplement does not.

If your horse is losing weight and you’re so opposed to a commercial grain–which is what it sounds like he needs if he’s only getting grass hay–have you considered moving to another barn that will stock the hay you prefer?

I also prefer to feed mine an alfalfa heavy diet, and it’s rather stunning how MUCH bagged feed they need if only on grass. Even if the weight of the hay is the same (and it’s not, if your horse is picking at his grass) the calorie and protein grass vs alfalfa is so different. Four pounds of alfalfa cubes doesn’t cover that shortfall.

[Scribbler]

If you don’t want to feed an extruded feed you can make a mash of oats beet pulp and alfalfa cubes and vitamin supplement. Or you can find a ration balancer that has ingredients you can live with.

“Commercial feeds” is a huge category with a lot of difference in ingredients nutrient levels and nsc.

[Scribbler]

@mydogs

Have you considered a non-gmo or wholefood grain?
http://thenaturallyhealthyhorse.com/organic-gmo-horse-feeds/

My horse is getting a non-gmo grain that a local company makes and I love it much better than the average grain (purina, triple crown, etc…). It is also not made with filler.
I have also heard good things about BioStar.

What do you understand filler to be in the context of horse feeds?

[TheJenners]

So you’re saying that removing just alfalfa from his diet is causing weight loss, but adding it back in the form of pellets isn’t stopping the weight loss?

Something else may be at play here, not a bad idea to get the vet out at this point.

[mydogs]

@Scribbler

What do you understand filler to be in the context of horse feeds?

Middlings, soybean & peanut hulls are the ones I remember the most. My grain is advertised as roasted feed, non-gmo, with no filler (it is listed on their website). The owner has a science background in the food industry & I’ve had two outside resources take a look at the ingredients when talking about my horse’s health.

I’m pretty well informed in regards to dog food ingredients due to one dog’s health issues & I know I have lots to learn about horse food ingredients. But I’m pretty happy with my horse’s new grain and don’t see myself ever going back to Purina or Triple Crown Senior (I would never feed by dogs Purina, so I can’t convince myself to buy it for my horse either).

[Palm_Beach]

@mydogs

Millings, soybean & peanut hulls are the ones I remember the most. My grain is advertised as roasted feed, non-gmo, with no filler (it is listed on their website). The owner has a science background in the food industry & I’ve had two outside resources take a look at the ingredients when talking about my horse’s health.

I’m pretty well informed in regards to dog food ingredients due to one dog’s health issues & I know I have lots to learn about horse food ingredients. But I’m pretty happy with my horse’s new grain and don’t seem myself ever going back to Purina or Triple Crown Senior (I would never feed by dogs Purina, so I can’t convince myself to buy it for my horse either).

Feed ingredients such as beet pulp, soy hulls, wheat midds and alfalfa meal are low in lignin and very digestible while peanut hulls and rice hulls are high in lignin and not very digestible. TC does not incorporate peanut hulls or rice hulls into it’s feeds. Reading lables is an important part understanding what you are feeding.

[mydogs]

@Palm Beach

Feed ingredients such as beet pulp, soy hulls, wheat midds and alfalfa meal are low in lignin and very digestible while peanut hulls and rice hulls are high in lignin and not very digestible. TC does not incorporate peanut hulls or rice hulls into it’s feeds. Reading lables is an important part understanding what you are feeding.

For Triple Crown Senior, wheat middlings is listed as its second ingredient & soybean hulls as its fourth ingredient. When I’m reading labels, I consider the top 5 ingredients the most important. Since TC has these 2 within the top 5, it isn’t my first choice of grain. Although, I do love the smell of it since it brings back childhood memories.

[Palm_Beach]

@mydogs

For Triple Crown, wheat middlings as its second ingredient & soybean hulls as its fourth ingredient. When I’m reading labels, I consider the top 5 ingredients the most important. Since TC has these 2 within the top 5, it isn’t my first choice of grain. Although, I do love the smell of it since it brings back childhood memories.

Which product? Some of their products are forage based, so you would expect to see wheat middlings and soybean hulls in the beginning of the ingredient list. They are there on purpose and are providing roughage in the diet. Unlike dogs, horses need lots and lots of roughage. It’s good for them, and puts weight on them.

If you have an easy keeper, you’d want to look at TC Low Starch or TC Lite or TC 30%.

[mydogs]

@Palm Beach

Which product? Some of their products are forage based, so you would expect to see wheat middlings and soybean hulls in the beginning of the ingredient list. They are there on purpose and are providing roughage in the diet. Unlike dogs, horses need lots and lots of roughage. It’s good for them, and puts weight on them.

If you have an easy keeper, you’d want to look at TC Low Starch or TC Lite or TC 30%.

Sorry, I haven’t had coffee yet so my typing skills aren’t the best. I was talking about the senior feed.

I’m not trying to knock down TC or Purina, but they just aren’t my first choice of grain since there are other options available now. I’ve attached a screenshot of the ingredients in my horse’s grain. My horse used to be fed Purina Ultima, he had to eat twice as much as he does now to keep weight on and he would pick at his food. That was my first concern because he would be the last horse to finish eating even if he was fed first and as soon as horses were turned out, he would stop eating.

Anyways, I don’t want to hijack this post anymore than I have. The OP stated she wasn’t a fan of commercial feed and I wanted to inform her that there are other non-commercial options available that use different ingredients.

[Minxitbabe]

Move your horse somewhere else. Anywhere that makes such a large change and just tells boarders to deal with it is no longer my barn. They should be willing to keep enough alfalfa for the horses that need it. Are you buying the cubes out of pocket or do they buy it to make up for the lack of alfalfa hay? If you are buying it you are getting screwed. You are paying the same board for an inferior hay less expensive hay. Not that all horses need alfalfa but it is a more expensive hay with more nutrition. And to top it off your horse is losing condition. Move him out two months ago unless the barn is going to start stocking alfalfa again or they are willing to feed enough alfalfa cubes to truly make up for the switch.