I’very heard 2 different approaches. One is to ride with the imagery of bringing the base of the neck up. Now i’m reading an article with the opposite approach…pushing the base of the neck down. What imagery works for you & why?
[QUOTE=keh;8975127]
I’very heard 2 different approaches. One is to ride with the imagery of bringing the base of the neck up. Now i’m reading an article with the opposite approach…pushing the base of the neck down. What imagery works for you & why?[/QUOTE]
Well, it depends what you mean by base of the neck in part. Many people call the underside the base, many call the part along the shoulder the base.
But I only see wanting a lower neck as valuable if the underside/base is already too low and the neck is inverted, in which case by either definition you don’t want a lower base. You want the horse to lift the sternum up between the shoulders which allows it to connect across its topline and step under/fold behind.
The endgame is to elevate the base of the neck, the base being where the neck ties into the shoulders. Remember, elevating the base of the neck will shift weight off of the forehand. However, you don’t pull the neck up. You invite the neck to elevate through proper training. I mean, you use the reins to encourage the horse to lift the neck so you are able to properly perform an exercise without the horse dumping on his forehand, but if you’re holding the horse’s neck up, you’re doing it wrong. The stange of training you are in will ultimately determine the proper height of the neck. A young horse is not going to have the same strength as a schoolmaster.
There are reasons to ask a horse to stretch truly down. Asking a horse to stretch so low that he looks like he’s grazing is a technique employed by some trainers to remediate horses with major conformational defects or really bad prior training. This technique allows the trainer to bypass the muscular system by having the position of the neck and the level of the back maintained by the nuchal ligament. However, this position is very difficult to maintain without having the horse fall completely onto his forehand.
The more practical version of lowering the neck really involves allowing the vertebrae to align. Thus, you don’t want the neck to drop lower than the level of the back. Of course, you want the horse to be reaching into the contact and moving forward. Now, if you do this stretch properly, the appearance of the muscles at the front of the chest will look the same as if the horse has his neck properly elevated. Then you have a horse moving in a level balance. Neither collected nor on the forehand. He is supporting the weight of his neck while seeking the contact. I wouldn’t think of pushing the neck down while doing this. That to me means that you’re pushing the horse onto his forehand. I would look at it more as pushing your hands forward. The neck lowers into the extended position as a consequence of the neck moving forewards. You want your hands to follow that movement. This is an invaluable exercise. From here you can build up the strength of a young or conformationally challenged animal so that you can ultimately allow the neck to raise. You can use this stretch in between periods of collected work. You can use it on a straight line, or you can use it with bend on a volte. It is truly a versatile exercise.
No, never lower at the base, but yes the neck can be longer and more down but I never want the horse on the forehand at any point.
Think of the horse elevating the sternum. that can be easier to feel than the neck.
That was so helpful, Foxtail! I understand it the same way.
The idea of stretching “long and low” for the weak, badly-built or badly-ridden horse is to get him to being to stretch his neck out and forward. Because the base of the neck (really, the third closest to his withers) has so much to do with how he elevates his rib cage, you want to make that part of the horse’s body mobile, then controllably by the rider and, finally, strong.
To me, there are a couple more biomechanical points to keep in mind. First, a horse is built such that his heavy head out on the end of that stalk of a neck has a great deal to do with his balance…or not. It works out that we humans who can see the head position and are more dextrous in our hands than in our seat or legs like to use the head’s position as a proxy for telling us about the horse’s balance and self-carriage.
And onto the second problem, sort of. The problem is that when you ride a horse badly in front, there are lots of places he can put his head without raising the base of his neck. And, recall, raising the base of his neck is the money shot.
So the horse who leaves his back low but tucks his chin hard in response to the bit… not good because the head position has left the important biomechanical issue (the position of his rib cage) untouched. And this “low back, chin in” posture is an acquired habit and musculature. It takes a lot of skill and time to undo.
For this reason, avoiding digging that hole for yourself, you get Foxtail’s emphasis on the horse stretching forward and reaching into the contact. He can’t do that without using the base of his neck. So while he won’t elevate into that uphill, collected posture fast via riding him this way, you will make sure that when he finally does raise his head and neck and his neck comes out of his withers in a way that looks more vertical, he will have taken the front of his rib cage with it, such that his carcass is going uphill.
At least, this is how I see it.
Great topic! Thanks. I’ll be interested to see what folks with deeper dressage experience and education than mine add in.
IMHO, the base (the part of the neck right in front of the withers) should lift and widen when the horse is working properly over his back. When a horse braces in his back, you will often see that area deflate, both lower and narrower, as he holds in his lower/underside neck muscles.
Thank you all! These explanations are very helpful. I think everyone agrees lifting the back is the end goal. The article is in the January issue of Dressage Today, pg 54. I find terminology & imagery vital to my learning. That’s why I asked for the different interpretations. I love reading clinic write ups, but I wish they were interactive!
Without going searching for the original article, it’s possible that someone got misquoted or mistyped. I’ve never heard of anyone saying to push the base of the neck down. Stretch out and forward to raise the base of the neck and the sternum, yes, all the time.
I essentially agree with everyone; however, I’m going to give a ‘first for me’ scenario that my coach gave me today and I hope I am able to convey it properly. My 13 hand stinker pony, being welsh cob and bred to drive utilizes the base of his neck as a fulcrum. His innate tendency is to do everything from the base of his neck. This has been a challenge to say the least to deal with but with inhand work, lots of elasticizing exercises and attempts to get him to come through and work over his back, proper movement has been attained. We were working through the piaffe today and my coach stated that like her horse, mine wants to get too far under with his hind end and ground bound. He flexes his hocks great and carries well; but, he finds it difficult to push up off the ground and ends up in this tight little fire plug posture. YET, due to the work I’ve done he’s also up through the withers and tends to climb all the while finding it difficult to go forward. Sooooo she had me work him long and low (NOT CURLED) in order to keep more weight on his forehand…it worked! We got more bounce and more correct steps going into and out of the movement. Now this isn’t to say that I wanted him “on the forehand” as in the normal tendency for horses to carry 60% of their weight on their forehand; but, I need more ‘over the back and into the hand’ while maintaining it in balance with the lifting up through the withers aspect. So I definitely needed ‘both’ concepts described here but with equal focus…but I could see why someone might misconstrue it as pushing the base of the neck down.
My horses brace at the base of their neck and often have ‘that under neck’ as my coach refers to it. So for me I have to think of it as raising up through the withers, lightening the base of the neck and maintaining a softness through the underside of the neck all the while trying to keep them out to the hand and stretching over the back/neck. Now I already knew this but even so was having difficulty achieving it in the piaffe until my coach had me approach it (wrap my head around it) just a little bit differently.
The neck must be stabilized. I think a lot depends on the conformation of the horse. Exvet’s pony, my friends Friesian and my half TWH are probably ridden differently than a Quarter Horse or Fjord in regard to "getting " the neck, but the parts of the spine shouldn’t be isolated.
NO wrote:
“The horse may not be called submissive, nor in forward action, if the base of the neck is not in a stable position or if the neck is too yielding, flinching from the contact of the reins.
Pulling the horse’s head higher with the reins or carrying out local flexions while dismounted will not obtain a high carriage and stable neck position, although flexions are extremely useful later in certain cases in order to achieve lightness”.
“The correct lowering of the haunches will provoke the elevation of the forehand, never the contrary”.
“If, because of lack of proper gymnastics the hindlegs are not prepared for the support of a raised head and neck, all the training will be compromised. All naturalness in the gaits will be lost.”
Hans Von Heydebreck:
“The flexion of the neck, thus its permeability, may not be obtained except by impulsion propagated by the hindquarters which convey it on through the horse’s body. These two phenomena, the compliance in the neck and the bend of the hindquarters, go together as a pair”.
CCFarm- absolutely agree about the stability part. I was making my horse “too supple” and i had to stabilize the sternum to get correct collection
[QUOTE=exvet;8975731]
I essentially agree with everyone; however, I’m going to give a ‘first for me’ scenario that my coach gave me today and I hope I am able to convey it properly. My 13 hand stinker pony, being welsh cob and bred to drive utilizes the base of his neck as a fulcrum. His innate tendency is to do everything from the base of his neck. This has been a challenge to say the least to deal with but with inhand work, lots of elasticizing exercises and attempts to get him to come through and work over his back, proper movement has been attained. We were working through the piaffe today and my coach stated that like her horse, mine wants to get too far under with his hind end and ground bound. He flexes his hocks great and carries well; but, he finds it difficult to push up off the ground and ends up in this tight little fire plug posture. YET, due to the work I’ve done he’s also up through the withers and tends to climb all the while finding it difficult to go forward. Sooooo she had me work him long and low (NOT CURLED) in order to keep more weight on his forehand…it worked! We got more bounce and more correct steps going into and out of the movement. Now this isn’t to say that I wanted him “on the forehand” as in the normal tendency for horses to carry 60% of their weight on their forehand; but, I need more ‘over the back and into the hand’ while maintaining it in balance with the lifting up through the withers aspect. So I definitely needed ‘both’ concepts described here but with equal focus…but I could see why someone might misconstrue it as pushing the base of the neck down.
My horses brace at the base of their neck and often have ‘that under neck’ as my coach refers to it. So for me I have to think of it as raising up through the withers, lightening the base of the neck and maintaining a softness through the underside of the neck all the while trying to keep them out to the hand and stretching over the back/neck. Now I already knew this but even so was having difficulty achieving it in the piaffe until my coach had me approach it (wrap my head around it) just a little bit differently.[/QUOTE]
Really good explanation which makes total sense. You’ve seen my trainer’s stallion, I think. Same issues with him - and his hind end conformation is very far from ideal, both without alignment through the SI allowing him to bring pelvis under easily AND without much natural ability to fold the hind legs. At the same time, he tries his heart out. He was coming up with all kinds of creative ways to attempt to figure out how to give what was being asked, and he would come above and behind the bit trying to figure out how to shorten himself to make it work. In his case, working on not allowing him to go slower than a person walking next to him kept him from trying so hard and he naturally started to get it. The request to keep going forward did the same thing, keeping his head lower in effect. I’m glad your guy figured it out from your trainer’s guidance, too!
