Basic Frame and Position?

Hello! I’m going to be joining my college’s Hunter Jumper Team in August and competing probably as a beginner since I don’t have any experience with Hunt Seat or Jumping… but I was just wondering if you all could tell me what the basic frame and rider position should look like.

I’ve heard that you want to have the horse round and steady, but in the videos I’ve seen the horses don’t seem round at all. Would having your horse in a steady, rounded, head on the vertical frame (like this: www.welshponiesfromwales.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/adam.jpg) be considered a good thing or not?

Also, I understand that rider’s form and “equitation” is important, but what exactly does that look like? I’ve seen competitive “hunters” riding around with hollow backs, rounded shoulders, sloppy reins and not understanding even basic rider bio-mechanics. Could anyone offer video or photos of a good (i.e. high scoring) hunter position on the flat and over fences?

Also, if any of you have tips for getting the “feel” of a new horse before jumping, that would be really helpful! The circuit we are on works by assigning horses to riders randomly right before the event and we aren’t allowed to ride them before our run (but we can watch them being warmed up).

Thank you!! Sorry for the newbie questions!

Nothing quite like insulting the top riders in a discipline you know nothing about.

I’d suggest you watch videos of Medal and Maclay classes on YouTube. That will give you an idea of what hunter seat equitation should look like.

And, in the future, I would suggest not beginning your questions with 3 paragraphs of insults. It does not and will not endear you to others in the sport.

I’m sorry! I didn’t mean to apply that to the top riders or people who know what they’re doing, I was talking about people I’ve seen who I don’t consider very advanced in the discipline. But you certainly have a point. My bad.

First off hunters,jumpers,and equitation are all very different even though they are grouped together. Hunters is judged just on the horse, equitation is just judged on the rider and how they influence the horse, jumpers is just judged on who has the fastest clear round. Sounds like you will be doing equitation. Here is a video of one of the previous winners of the Maclay Finals (one of the national championships) to get you started, you can google maclay finals for more videos and examples. Have fun!

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7652137]
I’m sorry! I didn’t mean to apply that to the top riders or people who know what they’re doing, I was talking about people I’ve seen who I don’t consider very advanced in the discipline. But you certainly have a point. My bad.[/QUOTE]

Some of the most “advanced” in this discipline have the worst equitation, it’s not about how you look, its about whether you can ride a horse effectively. You’re better off just learning how to ride and letting your trainer tell you what they want.

A new poster comes on and gets the good ole COTH snark - sure, sort out the trolls, but give her a chance.

[QUOTE=hunterrider23;7652149]
Some of the most “advanced” in this discipline have the worst equitation, it’s not about how you look, its about whether you can ride a horse effectively. You’re better off just learning how to ride and letting your trainer tell you what they want.[/QUOTE]

But I’m talking about equitation classes. How could advanced equitation riders have the worst equitation?

And yes, I will be starting to work with the team trainer in a few months, but I want to get my feet wet and figure out as much as I can before then.

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7652165]
But I’m talking about equitation classes. How could advanced equitation riders have the worst equitation?

And yes, I will be starting to work with the team trainer in a few months, but I want to get my feet wet and figure out as much as I can before then.[/QUOTE]

If you’d link us to the photos you are referring to, maybe we could help a bit more :winkgrin:

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7652163]
A new poster comes on and gets the good ole COTH snark - sure, sort out the trolls, but give her a chance.[/QUOTE]

Suggesting that you do not start out by insulting the discipline you are interested in hardly qualifies as snark.

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7652165]
But I’m talking about equitation classes. How could advanced equitation riders have the worst equitation?

And yes, I will be starting to work with the team trainer in a few months, but I want to get my feet wet and figure out as much as I can before then.[/QUOTE]

You’re taking about equitation classes, but describing them as hunter flat classes. There’s a difference between hunters and equitation. If you looked at pictures of a hunter flat class, then you would see loopy reins and riders may be less relaxed about their position because the horse is being judged.

Equitation flat classes are judged on the rider position, and you’ll see the riders with a shorter rein and the horses more round. Look for YouTube videos of the Maclay flat phase to see high level equitation riders flatting.

For college riding (assuming you’re doing IHSA), especially at the lower levels, having a solid, basic position is most important. Framing up the horse, not necessarily. Depending on your region, you don’t really know what you’re going to get for a horse. It may be a really nice horse that’s happy to go nicely round with little effort, or you could blow the class by spending all your time fussing around with the horse’s face trying to get it to go round when you should’ve just sat pretty, kept the horse bent correctly, and ignored the fact that his face was in your face. If that’s how the horse goes best, then that’s how the horse goes - you have to ride the horse underneath you.

For figuring out the horse you draw, watch it go in the classes before yours. If the horse’s handler is the owner or rider, ask for tips. When my horse got used, I was happy to tell everyone a novel about how to ride him because I wanted him to have the best ride possible.

Sounds like OP will be doing IHSA.

OP, don’t worry about getting a horse round or framed up in IHSA. Honestly, it’s usually a waste of time, and it can ruin your ride if you’re sitting there fighting with the horse’s mouth.

Watch every horse in the warm up and note its quirks. Take note if it does lead changes or not.

I have a few IHSA videos on my Youtube channel (in my signature) and would be happy to answer any questions you have if you PM me or email me (popex102@umn.edu) :slight_smile:

Let’s just start this out with one basic understanding - IHSA is a world of it’s own. If you take a lesson with a non-IHSA trainer, not everything will be applicable to IHSA.

Like supershorty said, don’t worry about getting the horse in a frame. If it easily rounds up, you can let them but it’s not worth the fight. Since you are new to hunt seat you probably aren’t ready to feel when a horse is going to easily go on the bit (unless you’re coming from dressage - you don’t say what your previous discipline is :slight_smile: ) so just keep a contact that allows you to steer and stop and enough leg to keep going, and you’ll be fine. Sometimes in IHSA this means absolutely no contact with the horse’s head in the air. This is perfectly acceptable in IHSA if the other option is a fight with the horse. (Do not expect this to win in any non-IHSA setting.) Just concentrate on your own position, you might want to pick up a book that can give you pictures of correct form. George Morris, Anne Kursinski, and Anna White-Mullin all have very good books.

As for getting a feel for a horse before jumping, you probably won’t have to worry about that for a little. It sounds like you’ll be put into W/T or W/T/C to start, and by the time you point up into Novice Fences hopefully your coach has had you on plenty of different horses. Most of the time there will be a little blurb about the horse, enough so you can locate them and get a basic idea of how to ride them (“Dobbin - 16.0h chestnut with blaze, simple lead changes, stick optional, keep your leg on, sticky right lead”). You can watch the horses school, as you said, but you won’t know which horse is your draw at that point. Sometimes after you draw you will have time to watch the horse go with someone else, which is nice. It’s even nicer when that someone else is your teammate and you can ask whatever you want ;). Many of the horses are IHSA veterans that upperclassmen may be familiar with, so it’s always worth asking your team anyway.

If you’re on a horse completely cold, just gather what information you can and wing it. If you were given spurs, the horse is going to be lazy - you don’t get spurs for a slightly slow horse in IHSA. If he looks part draft (or if he’s definitely all draft, you never know with IHSA!), he probably doesn’t have a great mouth. If he’s in a pelham, you’re probably going to need it. At some shows you have enough room to walk around outside before you go in the ring, but many horses change drastically once you get through the in-gate.

For a jumping round I like to do this - walk through the gate, note if he changes at all (head goes up, starts pulling or sucking back, etc). Pick up a trot. If you think it’s going to be a fight to get back to a walk, just canter and leave the fight for the end. (You are not training the horse, you are covering up the training flaws, BIG difference and very tough to adjust too). Otherwise, come back to a walk and make a note of how responsive they are to your hand. Wait until a turn to canter, note how responsive they are to your leg. Then I usually let my instinct kick in. If they were slow to canter, I probably won’t choose a long one for the first fence. Have a hard mouth and I won’t take an inside turn if I need a simple change, etc. That will all come with practice, and not something you need to worry about yet :slight_smile:

IHSA is fun, but you need to know how to laugh at yourself! Good luck!

Thank you all so much for your help! Yes, I am doing IHSA and my formal training is mostly western, English equitation and dressage.

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7652078]
we aren’t allowed to ride them before our run[/QUOTE]

I have nothing to add to the excellent advice you’ve already received other than perhaps modify your lingo before you meet the team :smiley: Good luck and have fun!

[QUOTE=HJEq;7652424]
I have nothing to add to the excellent advice you’ve already received other than perhaps modify your lingo before you meet the team :smiley: Good luck and have fun![/QUOTE]

I’ve never jumped, how should I know the lingo? What is it called? A class? A round?

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7652431]
I’ve never jumped, how should I know the lingo? What is it called? A class? A round?[/QUOTE]

An equitation flat class would just be called a class. For a jumping class, you call it either a class or a round. Since you’ve never jumped before but have riding experience, you’ll most likely be placed in walk-trot-canter and won’t have to worry about jumping classes for some time.

ETA: this obviously varies by team size and competitiveness, but keep in mind that opportunities to show in every show aren’t always there. I was in the same division all four years of school, not because I didn’t get good enough results to point into the next division but because I simply didn’t get to show enough to point out until my senior year. Shows limit entries, and on larger teams not everyone gets to show every time. You may not even show over fences at all, even if you’re in novice or above, you may just do the flats if your coach doesn’t think you’re experienced enough or good enough to show over fences. Like I said, this depends completely on the team, the size of the team, and the coach. There were smaller teams in my region where the riders all showed every time, but that was not true of every team.

[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7652165]

And yes, I will be starting to work with the team trainer in a few months, but I want to get my feet wet and figure out as much as I can before then.[/QUOTE]

Rather than trying to impress the team trainer with how awesome you are and how much you already know (which fyi apparently is not much), just show up willing to shut up and do what they say.

I know, I know, it’s less glamorous that way.

I assume you are joining an IHSA team? Youtube is your friend.

You will likely be riding in walk trot. Here is a video of that class at Nationals (i.e. the people who won that class during the year): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbd8EoOCYi0

If you want to see more variety in the skill level (like you’ll see at a regular show), just put “IHSA walk trot” into youtube.

To watch the next level up, put “IHSA beginner w/t/c” into youtube.

Focus on learning all you can and having fun. Winning is periphery.

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7652532]
Rather than trying to impress the team trainer with how awesome you are and how much you already know (which fyi apparently is not much), just show up willing to shut up and do what they say.

I know, I know, it’s less glamorous that way.[/QUOTE]

Of course that’s the plan, I don’t care if it’s glamorous. But I really do want to learn to jump as soon as possible because I’m also planning on doing a bit of eventing. So I just want to learn basic two-point, understand what’s expected, etc. so I’m prepared to advance when I get the chance.