Battling the picky eater dog -- do I stay strong or give-in?

[EventingMaff]

My SO and I adopted a 9 month old medium sized (30 lb) mixed-breed dog at the end of September this year.

She was on a raw meat diet but we just can’t keep that up for practical reasons (too small a freezer, travelling frequently, etc). So we switched her over to kibble. She seemed to be doing well on it. She’s definitely a “eat to live” dog and is picky even about her treats. She wouldn’t come rushing over when we fed but she would check out the bowl a few minutes within us putting it out for her and would finish the meal.

Then about 2 weeks ago I house-sat/pet-sat for a friend. I packed up my dog’s food but forgot it on the kitchen table so for that week my dog was fed using the dogfood at my friend’s place. Now, that she’s back home and on her regular food – she has no interest in it!

She gets fed AM & PM. If I leave the food out for her, she’ll have sporadic bites throughout the day but rarely finishes her breakfast before it’s dinner time (so still food in the bowl). If I take the bowl away after 15 minutes, the come dinner time she’ll have a few bites right when dinner is put out but doesn’t finish dinner. I haven’t changed the amount of food offered at each meal.

She’s a very active & energetic dog and this doesn’t seem to have changed, nor has she noticeably lost weight. She’s still peppy, poops 2x a day (but small poops), is otherwise totally normal. She gets training treats throughout the day (cheese for recall and dried duck treats for obedience sit/stay stuff) – but if anything she’s getting less treats then she was in the beginning (since she was very people-shy with us, the first 2 weeks we were dropping treats like crazy). Plus, there is no way she’s finding alternative food sources as she’s supervised or crated at all times.

The food she got while house-sitting was very run-of-the-mill food that has mostly meat by-products and fillers. With us she’s on Nutro’s Natural Choice. It’s not top of the line, but it was one of the better options we could find at the local pet store.

I figured she’d have given in by now as it’s been nearly 2 weeks since we got home from house-sitting…but she’s still showing little interest in her food. Is it time I start looking further afield for better foods? I’ve heard that a pet store a few towns over has premium dry food available (Orijen, Acana, etc) that I could explore but the prices on those foods make my heart skip a beat.

[S1969]

My friend has a dog like this; they tried ALL the “good” foods and he hated most them and wouldn’t touch some of them. Now they feed Purina ProPlan - he likes it, and while it’s not “five stars”, it’s not totally junk. And they don’t have to fight with him 3x a day.

He’s still not a voracious eater, but he eats well on this food. What was your friend feeding? Maybe it’s worth switching to that food.

[Houndhill]

It would drive me nuts to have a dog with that pattern of eating! If you are sure your dog is healthy, you might consider teaching her to eat. I don’t know whether you are familiar with Sue Ailsby, she is a very well known “Clicker Training”, author of the excellent “Levels Training” books. She has written an excellent article on training your dog to eat:

http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page39/

I have used this approach, and can attest that it really does work.

Another thing to consider, some dogs require many more calories in adolescence, then when their growth is completed, their caloric need diminishes. She may simply require less food to maintain her weight now.

[yaya]

If she’s just as spunky & peppy, everything is functioning normally, and she has not lost weight, then where’s the problem? Just feed her less, she doesn’t sound like she needs what you think she needs.

My adult dog goes through this every now and then. Just won’t eat a meal. So I pick it up, and give it to him again the next meal time (fed twice a day, dry kibble, doesn’t spoil). Sometimes he won’t eat it the second time, either. By the third meal, he eats.

Now, if he were to act punky, or have a change in bowel habits, I’d suspect a problem and start thinking about a vet visit, but if he just isn’t hungry, then why force the issue?

[Mosey_2003]

My dog disliked Nutro highly as well. Straight up refused to eat Natural Balance LID too.

What did she get at the friend’s?

[EventingMaff]

The friend’s food was purchased as the home-brand of an agriculture supply store that we don’t have in my area, so it’s not practical to use for my girl.

I could keep her on what she’s on, it just doesn’t seem right to see her so unenthusiastic about meal time when I know that she CAN be excited for her breakfast/dinner (at least, as excited as she gets about food).

I think I’ve convinced myself to switch. A local friend told me of a nearby spot that I can get Dog Lover’s Gold which is in the same price point, has better quality ingredients (all human-grade), and a higher meat content then Nutro. I’ll pick up a sample and see if she shows interest.

Anybody have any experience with Dog Lover’s Gold? I think it’s more popular here in Europe then in the US.

[EventingMaff]

[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8387636]
My dog disliked Nutro highly as well. Straight up refused to eat Natural Balance LID too.

What did she get at the friend’s?[/QUOTE]

Can I ask what you found that did work for your dog?

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=EventingMaff;8387665]
Can I ask what you found that did work for your dog?[/QUOTE]
He would eat Orijen, but he wasn’t thrilled with it.

He likes the Wal-Mart grain free brand, actually. Pure Balance I think they call it?

But, right now he’s on ProPlan Lamb and eating it well.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

I hope the new food works for your dog!

Our previous Great Dane was an extremely picky eater. I have read/heard over and over again that a dog will give in. She would not. When we got her she was easily 25 lbs underweight and had free choice kibble in that house. She was that freaking picky and was basically only eating tables scraps and treats given to her. She ate Nutro lamb and rice for several big bags but then would not touch eat. She then ate Orijin for 1.25 bags and then would not touch it. Natural Balance? Gosh, she wouldn’t eat a bite. We tried raw… haha… yeah she wouldn’t touch it. We finally were able to get her to eat the Costco chicken and rice consistently (with certain specific flavors of canned dog good mixed in). As she got older though, we had to add rice to the kibble and canned dog food to get her to eat it and then boiled chicken and rice to the mix. As time went by she would only eat boiled chicken and rice and not even all of it, and we knew her time was coming.

I loved that dog, but I did not love that part of her. Good luck with your picky eater! One dog gets the Costco’s chicken and rice, and our sensitive stomach dogs get the Costco Nature’s Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato.

[asb_own_me]

Unless there is a weight and/or health issue - I’m in the camp of “dog eats when person feeds”. We don’t free feed, we serve 2 meals each day. Dog eats within 5-10 minutes, or the food is picked up. Like I said at first, unless there is a health issue that is causing the dog to refuse or be picky/slow about eating, we don’t “help” or “beg” them to eat.

It might be one meal…it might be three. If there’s not a health reason for the refusal, trust me - the dog WILL START TO EAT. Don’t play dog food bingo.

[cowboymom]

I know a lot of dogs that don’t like Nutro too.

There are comparable feeds if you want to fiddle around with it, I usually like to find one that is decent nutrition that the dogs like too.

I have six dogs that are on Canidae and doing well, they all like it.

If you wanted to get an advantage on finding another food you could ask your friend to get you the label from her food and use that as a starting point.

I like my dogs to enjoy their food; if I had just one that didn’t like it I would find another food. Heaven knows there is enough out there to choose from.

[french_fry]

I would try a couple varieties of food, since you mention that she ate another brand just fine.

I wouldn’t take a recent rescue picking at her food too seriously in general, though - it sounds like you’ve only had her a little over a month and some need to settle in quite a bit before they’re comfortable enough to really hoover their food.

I wouldn’t free feed and would stick to the meal schedule - put it down for 15 minutes and take away whatever she hasn’t eaten.

I’m big on feeding in the crate. I would put her in the crate at breakfast, put her food in with her, leave her 15 min, then let her out and pick up the food.

[EventingMaff]

So it turns out a colleague of mine feeds Dog Lover’s Gold, but their grain-free versions (I think it uses potato instead of rice). I swung by his place on my way home from work and he gave me two samples, one fish and one meat flavored, as he rotates between the two and is about to switch to a fresh bag.

I’m not a major proponent of grain-free diets, but I’m not opposed either. I’m definitely on the side of “whatever works best for your dog”. My girl does seem to itch herself a bit (and not just her collar area – although less then when we first got her) and has more green-goop in her eyes then I’d like, so we’ll see if this grain-free approach has any effect. Really all I care about is that she eats it happily and her stool/coat/odor/energy look good.

I ran a taste experiment on my girl and while she was indifferent between the two flavors, she gobbled them both up and came sniffing my hands and pockets for more. When none were forthcoming, she sniffed the bowl with her current Nutro kibble and skipped right on past it, going back to the other two bowls to lick them clean.

So looks like I’ll be picking up a bag of the DLG and we’ll see how it treats her on a 6 week trial. And whether she’ll stay interested in it!

Fingers crossed!

[Houndhill]

Just be aware that many dogs prefer novel foods to their regular kibble. Often dog eats sample, owner buys bag, dog goes off new food.

It sounds like she may not have developed the right habit of food presented=food immediately eaten, since she was free fed in her previous home. You might want to read Sue’s article about how to teach her that. If you don’t, you will probably be struggling with this issue the rest of her life.

Most picky dogs are made that way by their owners. I know how difficult it is to not get sucked into catering to them, but you will be very glad you didn’t.

Just please read the article!

[Houndhill]

This article was written by and is copyrighted by Sue Ailsby.

Mind to Mind

There are many unpleasant consequences to having a “fussy” eater - you basically have no control over when the dog eats (I’m not hungry right now), what he eats (I don’t like this!), how much he eats (three kernels was plenty, thanks), or when he ate last (an important question when you’re prepping for emergency surgery). You have no control over how much he weighs - and HE is busy playing mind games with you over control of the food. We’ve done a lot of experimenting with changing a dog’s performance and behaviour with how much and when we feed as well - for instance, dogs with a shy tendency, and dogs who tend to put too much pressure on themselves in competition are fed as close to ringtime as possible to change their body chemistry and calm them down. Dogs who tend to be a bit lethargic are fed three hours before ringtime to give them energy to perform. You can’t do this with a “fussy” eater. Many people habitually starve their “fussy” eaters every show weekend, hoping they’ll perform better because they’re hungry. Try telling THAT to a football player! In order to perform, an athlete must be properly fed and properly rested - to achieve that, the dog must understand the rules of his universe. When he understands the rules, he can relax in a coherent universe. So here’s the training “method” to teach your dog to eat “on cue”:

Decide how much food the dog should be getting in a day (let’s say one cup, as an example). Divide that amount into two meals. Develop a ritual - say “Are you hungry? Where’s your dish? Where’s the food? Alright! Get in the kennel (or on your mat, or whatever)!” Put down the half cup of food and COUNT TO FIVE.

If, as you get to five, the dog is eating, fine.

If, at any time after you’ve counted to five and the dog is eating, he turns away from the dish before he gets to the bottom and polishes the bowl, say NOTHING, pick up the dish, and put the food away.

If you get to five and the dog isn’t eating, say NOTHING, pick up the dish, and put it away.

Give him nothing until his next scheduled meal, 12 hours later (for adult dogs).
If the dog either doesn’t approach the dish, or turns away from the food before it’s all gone, and you got to take the dish away, measure what’s left. At the next scheduled meal, give him HALF WHAT HE ATE at the previous meal. If he ate 6 kernels of food and wandered off, he’ll have 3 kernels of food in his dish at the next meal. If he eats two of those three kernels and wanders off, give him 1 kernel at the next meal.

When he eats ALL the food in his dish, polishes the bowl and wishes there was more, you can give him slightly more at his next scheduled meal (don’t give him more at THIS meal), and more at the next one, etc, until he’s back to getting - and eating - the appropriate amount of food.

If at any time he doesn’t eat all the food you give him before turning away, take the dish away and give him half what he ate for his next meal.

Of course you CARE what he eats, and whether he’s healthy or not, but it’s very important that you don’t take responsibility for whether he chooses to eat or not.

People who worry that the dog will starve to death don’t get healthy dogs. They get dogs who hold out for days without eating, who “demand” to have their food changed every few days. Remember, you’re NOT withholding food from the dog. You’re offering him food twice a day. You’re giving him the same window of opportunity you give him in any training situation. If the dog is healthy and just “fussy”, all he has to do is choose to eat. HIS choice.

[stargzng386]

Look into physical aspects too, was the protein base of your food the same that your friend fed? My puppy was a picky eater the first year of her life until we figured out she was allergic to poulty. It wouldn’t make her extremly sick but she would eat a new food for a few days and then stop because it made her stomach upset. Once we removed all pounty from her food and treats she became a normal eater. Maybe try a different single protein food and see if your dog is consistently better with that food.

[stargzng386]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;8388007]
This article was written by and is copyrighted by Sue Ailsby.

Mind to Mind

There are many unpleasant consequences to having a “fussy” eater - you basically have no control over when the dog eats (I’m not hungry right now), what he eats (I don’t like this!), how much he eats (three kernels was plenty, thanks), or when he ate last (an important question when you’re prepping for emergency surgery). You have no control over how much he weighs - and HE is busy playing mind games with you over control of the food. We’ve done a lot of experimenting with changing a dog’s performance and behaviour with how much and when we feed as well - for instance, dogs with a shy tendency, and dogs who tend to put too much pressure on themselves in competition are fed as close to ringtime as possible to change their body chemistry and calm them down. Dogs who tend to be a bit lethargic are fed three hours before ringtime to give them energy to perform. You can’t do this with a “fussy” eater. Many people habitually starve their “fussy” eaters every show weekend, hoping they’ll perform better because they’re hungry. Try telling THAT to a football player! In order to perform, an athlete must be properly fed and properly rested - to achieve that, the dog must understand the rules of his universe. When he understands the rules, he can relax in a coherent universe. So here’s the training “method” to teach your dog to eat “on cue”:

Decide how much food the dog should be getting in a day (let’s say one cup, as an example). Divide that amount into two meals. Develop a ritual - say “Are you hungry? Where’s your dish? Where’s the food? Alright! Get in the kennel (or on your mat, or whatever)!” Put down the half cup of food and COUNT TO FIVE.

If, as you get to five, the dog is eating, fine.

If, at any time after you’ve counted to five and the dog is eating, he turns away from the dish before he gets to the bottom and polishes the bowl, say NOTHING, pick up the dish, and put the food away.

If you get to five and the dog isn’t eating, say NOTHING, pick up the dish, and put it away.

Give him nothing until his next scheduled meal, 12 hours later (for adult dogs).
If the dog either doesn’t approach the dish, or turns away from the food before it’s all gone, and you got to take the dish away, measure what’s left. At the next scheduled meal, give him HALF WHAT HE ATE at the previous meal. If he ate 6 kernels of food and wandered off, he’ll have 3 kernels of food in his dish at the next meal. If he eats two of those three kernels and wanders off, give him 1 kernel at the next meal.

When he eats ALL the food in his dish, polishes the bowl and wishes there was more, you can give him slightly more at his next scheduled meal (don’t give him more at THIS meal), and more at the next one, etc, until he’s back to getting - and eating - the appropriate amount of food.

If at any time he doesn’t eat all the food you give him before turning away, take the dish away and give him half what he ate for his next meal.

Of course you CARE what he eats, and whether he’s healthy or not, but it’s very important that you don’t take responsibility for whether he chooses to eat or not.

People who worry that the dog will starve to death don’t get healthy dogs. They get dogs who hold out for days without eating, who “demand” to have their food changed every few days. Remember, you’re NOT withholding food from the dog. You’re offering him food twice a day. You’re giving him the same window of opportunity you give him in any training situation. If the dog is healthy and just “fussy”, all he has to do is choose to eat. HIS choice.[/QUOTE]

This would have ended up with a dead puppy in my case. We went almost two weeks with her refusing all foods even trying different kinds. We gave in and doctored her food to get her to eat and found out later about her food allergy.

[EventingMaff]

I did read the article when you linked to it earlier – sorry I should have commented on it. It was a good read, and I definitely agree with everything in it!

I should clarify that at the shelter they were fed raw meat 2x daily by-hand (basically whoever can jump on the shelter staff member most intensely gets fed most – not ideal).

When she first arrived with us we were putting down her food, and walking away (since she wouldn’t come near it with us near and would eat very skittishly). She always finished, however for most of these initial weeks there was fresh rice and sweet potato mixed in with the kibble to help ease the transition (initially all rice & sweet potato – which she gobbled down-- and gradually adding the kibble). She was on the kibble-only diet for about 4 days before going to my friend’s. She did finish the meal, but she definitely was not an avid eater of the kibble only, she was much more interested when rice & sweet potato were involved.

At my friend’s house, she ate everything up once put out.

On coming home, the first week back we would put out her kibble and let it stay out (free access). The last 5 days we put it down, after 10 minutes if she’d walked away/never approached then we removed it. However I hadn’t heard of the reducing the available amount – we were just putting her normal meal portion out each time.

I definitely agree that she probably is showing more enthusiasm simple because it’s new food (and she’s probably really hungry since she’s barely eaten these past 2 weeks). So we’ll start with small bags and see how long this interest lasts!

Thanks for the article, and I’m definitely only doing the “you eat now, or you don’t eat” route from now on! No more free-access for this girl! However I do want her to have a food that she enjoys the taste of.

[french_fry]

Oh gosh, that hand-feeding raw meat to a group at the shelter does not seem like the best method at all! Maybe I’m misinterpreting something?

I think I remember saying that your girl was a couple warning signs of resource guarding - no wonder! I’m glad she’s on a better schedule with you now.

I feed some of my fosters chicken and rice or mix canned pumpkin into their kibble at first (stomach upsets, UGH) and many of them turn up their noses at plain kibble for awhile after that.

[EventingMaff]

[QUOTE=french fry;8388096]
Oh gosh, that hand-feeding raw meat to a group at the shelter does not seem like the best method at all! Maybe I’m misinterpreting something?

I think I remember saying that your girl was a couple warning signs of resource guarding - no wonder! I’m glad she’s on a better schedule with you now.

I feed some of my fosters chicken and rice or mix canned pumpkin into their kibble at first (stomach upsets, UGH) and many of them turn up their noses at plain kibble for awhile after that.[/QUOTE]

I wish you were misinterpreting – but what I saw really was that bad. Maybe it was out of the ordinary? But the dogs seemed to know what to do so I’m guessing it was the normal routine :eek:

Hmm I hadn’t thought of the fact that of course kibble would be less appealing then yummy fresh food that was cooked up for her – there’s an obvious 2+2 that didn’t occur to me!

Hmmm food for thought (bad pun intended) on whether I just play strict with the Nutro or try her out on the DLG…