i am just curious. why does this new poster have to prove himself to some of you? why cant he just post and if you want to contribute fine and if not - don’t/
there is no requirement that a new poster must meet anyones criteria for riding and training.
heavens - we have many many MANY people on this very board that cant ride their way out of a paper bag but call themselves trainers and offer advice etc and no one calls them out?
it is just plain rude to be doing what you are doing!
I really just love how these so called masters and gurus come up with these special riding styles that are eons old and super special and all of us mere mortals that ride according to FEI rules or tried and true practices of dressage are unwashed masses that do nothing but abuse our horses with our two ton buts ans our concrete hands.
The reason that people want to see videos is the same reasons that scientists that want to be taken seriously have to write and publish papers for the rest of the science community. So the community can try their experiments and to test their theories. It speaks of a person that has nothing to hide and has done their home work and not just trying to pull a fast one. If you choose not to show and if you choose not to have videos of your style of riding without the rest of the dressage public to judge and see just how correct or incorrect it really is. Most professional dressage riders have free videos on line to watch. They show at public venues where judges are not only their to scrutinized but the rest of the dressage community can as well. They will speak freely of their techniques and their theory in public not just on the Internet and on bulletin boards.
Some people may find it interesting that many people in the mainstream dressage community feel that there is evidence to support that Baucher’s theories constructed the foundation for Rollkur. But you get around that by saying that he did not explain himself well. Well I just don’t buy it. I think that you have decided to become a trainer and to grow your clientele You have decided that you need a gimmick.
Guys like you that have proclaim to magical fairy dust in the form of ancient techniques, that makes us silly middle age horse women incredible riders if we just go to your school, buy your book, ride a baroque horse that you breed that have been bread for thousands of years to pop out of their momma with a double bridle oh and I am sure you will have a special saddle that will just finish the picture. And if we don’t follow or agree with your methods, we are doomed to be mere philistines plodding around on our dumbloods doing everything wrong. I call snake oil sir.
Standing ovation for Ginger…!
[QUOTE=mbm;5044211]
i am just curious. why does this new poster have to prove himself to some of you? why cant he just post and if you want to contribute fine and if not - don’t/
there is no requirement that a new poster must meet anyones criteria for riding and training.
heavens - we have many many MANY people on this very board that cant ride their way out of a paper bag but call themselves trainers and offer advice etc and no one calls them out?
it is just plain rude to be doing what you are doing![/QUOTE]
Weren’t you just calling him out on the “Nuno” thread?
calling him out? no. i am super interested in what he is posting! it is intriguing!
Yes it may suprise you a horse can collect a few hours after it is born so if that is not good blame mother nature .
Yes a horse needs to get strong to carry a person and do it for longer periods BUT you wont get that by riding arround for years on the forehand and then deciding to ask for collection all of a sudden ,as you have not made those muscles any stronger at all .So you see the Piaffe with all the weight on the fore hand etc etc etc . We asK for those same muscles to be stronger sooner ,because we USE them sooner and don’t try and retrain the horse years later .That horse you saw can sit like that because he learned it is in his best interest for him to carry himself that way and so his back and muscles are still young and strong when most others born the year he was are lucky to even be alive yet able to perform. I was asked if I put formaldahyde in his veins at that show when asked how old he was most thought eight or nine .
As for the horse that broke amrs and legs it is true and more . He first broke the short listed Olympic trainers HEAD ,I forgot that body part dumping her head first on a wooden tie . Next He broke the next rider-trainers hand as she got dumped into a fence . Next he broke the next trainers foot throwing him and stomping on him . Then he was put to pasture until they brought him to me for help or he was going to be given away . I have no studetns that compete it is not our thing . I have had plenty come here to try and learn some "tricks " to take back to the rest of what they do but it does not work well like that . I have a few that have done some local demos where they live all the time .
Most of them as, I are very happy to perform daily for our horses sake and our own enjoyment relaxation and meditation on horseback . That Paso you saw to my knowledge is the only one ever taught those moves as gaited horses were many centuries ago.
You can’t get collection any faster than the horse is prepared to give it to you. Perhaps because of structure, an Iberian horse can collect faster, but all horses need time to become strong over the back and loins to carry more on the hinds and lift the withers. Your comment about “faster” collection raises huge red warning flags. But maybe that’s just me.
Actually I can kind of see his point, if you start the horse in collection for very short periods then you immediately begin to build those muscles, unlike many of fields of training which start the horse much longer and lower and gradually build those muscles.
So in theory you do get collection much sooner without stressing the horse.
Mbm stated:
"i am kind of confused by the above. is “dressage” now only the german system of competitive riding?
is what the ODGs (the old dead guys for EAGLES) did not considered dressage anymore?
what about what the other schools are doing ? the SRS? etc? is what they are doing no longer considered dressage?
in any case - some of the best trainers used to work for the circus!"
From your reply in the “Nuno” thread. Or did I forget – are you also critical of the SRS’s “version” of dressage?
[QUOTE=mbm;5044247]
calling him out? no. i am super interested in what he is posting! it is intriguing![/QUOTE]
Agree. I like a different point of view.
[QUOTE=Beasmom;5044291]
Mbm stated:
"i am kind of confused by the above. is “dressage” now only the german system of competitive riding?
is what the ODGs (the old dead guys for EAGLES) did not considered dressage anymore?
what about what the other schools are doing ? the SRS? etc? is what they are doing no longer considered dressage?
in any case - some of the best trainers used to work for the circus!"
From your reply in the “Nuno” thread. Or did I forget – are you also critical of the SRS’s “version” of dressage?[/QUOTE]
ummm… not sure what your point is? I was responding to NOMIOMI post… i was asking her if she thinks dressage is only the german system? (sounds like that is what she thinks from her posts) and didnt she think that what the SRS does is dressage? etc?
the i said that some of the best trainers in the past worked for the circus. this is true.
so i am not sure how else you interpreted it?
“I am just curious. why does this new poster have to prove himself to some of you? why cant he just post and if you want to contribute fine and if not - don’t”
What she said. COTH is so famous for nasty tirades.
I beg your pardon, mbm. I thought that was a series of questions posed to The Master, Eagles.
Obviously, I misunderstood. It was not clear to me who you were addressing!
Is there a website with pictures/video that I’m missing? I would love to have a look as I have yet to see any Baucherists who have a horse working correctly in their backs. They (because of the “dropping behind the hand”/false headset thing) are usually hollow and tight in their backs.
To the people that are asking why the master has to prove himself. When you start to tell me that my 20 years of riding is wrong yours is right I would hope that you have more to back yourself up than just name dropping and and lot of typing.
Also you may be surprised that in regular old sad dressage you train from day one for collection it’s called the training scale it starts with rhythm and ends with collection. It is a difficult system that requires years of dedicated practice and and a certain degree of coordination the I assure you you will achieve with time and dedication. And you don’t have to go to a special school or have a lot of money or a special horse to achieve the maximum level of success your horse’s conformation will allow.
By the way when the renaissance happened and horsemanship became a activity for leisure and art the high schools of dressage all started to influence each other. So there is no truly pure school of dressage. The French, Germans, Spanish, and Italians all influenced each other.
When you start to tell me that my 20 years of riding is wrong yours is right I would hope that you have more to back yourself up than just name dropping and and lot of typing.
I don’t believe he ever said he was right, you were wrong…I think his point is there is more then one path and he wished to discuss his.
[QUOTE=JackSprats Mom;5044399]
I don’t believe he ever said he was right, you were wrong…I think his point is there is more then one path and he wished to discuss his.[/QUOTE]
No not directly a good salesmen never does. However if you tell me that me my tool are wrong, my theories on getting a horse to work properly is wrong you are no longer discussing theories of training you are trying to get me to buy in to what you have to sell.
Maybe a better way for the master to discuss his theories would be to show videos of what his theories have accomplished. How putting a horse in a double bridle is not just using leverage to throw in some tricks and call it classical dressage but wait not just classical but Baucher classical dressage.
Actually I have not seen one post where the master has put forth a technique for fixing a common problem that many riders have and how he would fix it, so we could discuss different theories of dressage,and not just who he knows how his horses work and what equipment he uses.
[QUOTE=lstevenson;5044382]
Is there a website with pictures/video that I’m missing? I would love to have a look as I have yet to see any Baucherists who have a horse working correctly in their backs. They (because of the “dropping behind the hand”/false headset thing) are usually hollow and tight in their backs.[/QUOTE]
Here is Master Sanders: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm6kIMXTKC8
THANK YOU !!! I was hoping to discus this "other way " That is all . Now since someone asked for the website to see pictures . it is THE INTERNATIONAL ACADEMY OF BAROQUE AND ACADEMIC EQUESTRIAN EDUCATION. See them on the Gallery section .
No one that I ever trained with wanted or developed horses cranked in or behind the bit , just the opposite . many many many people believe their are more than one school of thought here ,choose the one you like if it is this one perhaps I can help. Nuno thought so , his Son Joa thought so , Jean Claude Racinet thought so , Pk thinks so, Barbier thinks so and on and on . Oh yes I think so as well .
Tell me then are the pictures cranked in and behind the bit or pulled into their chest ? Do the horses appear to work from the rear ? By the way to the very polite poster above . If someone would like to post a real training problem and how I might addres it in the way I work , I would be happy to try and explain it .
However hard as I looked I was unable to find any real question to solve besides all the barbs and acusations that were "given a standing ovation for " . I am probably just not seeing that real training question that was hiding in betweeen the classy snake oil salesman name calling and all the rest of the high class flatery I won’t stoop to address in this forum for the sake of those who may be interested in actual methods . I await a training question . Warning, you may not like my method remember it may not be what you are used to and I think some are here to see a different way and come with a clean slate of a method they may not really know much about .
Hmm…looks like trick training. Any riding videos?
[QUOTE=eagles;5044473]
THANK YOU !!! I was hoping to discus this "other way " That is all . Now since someone asked for the website to see pictures . it is THE INTERNATIONAL ACADEMY OF BAROQUE AND ACADEMIC EQUESTRIAN EDUCATION. See them on the Gallery section . No one that I ever trained with wanted or developed horses cranked in or behind the bit , just the opposite . many many many people believe their are more than one school of thought here ,choose the one you like if it is this one perhaps I can help. Nuno thought so , his Son Joa thought so , Jean Claude Racinet thought so , Pk thinks so, Barbier thinks so and on and on . Oh yes I think so as well . Tell me then are the pictures cranked in and behind the bit or pulled into their chest ? Do the horses appear to work from the rear ?[/QUOTE]
There’s the plug folks. I wonder how many hits your sight has gotten today between here and UDBB. If you plug enough and enough people go to your web site that would be very attractive for sponsors no?
So now that I have seen the only video of your work could you please explain what Baucher theory or theory of any of your masters that says it is correct and good to push a horse that is experiencing some kind of discomfort and could barely bend it’s hocks to preform airs above ground, Spanish walk, piaff and passage.
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