Bay color changes in foals...

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

I have had a few bay foals over the years, some have shedded out REALLY dark brown and some have stayed more bay. Usually when they shed their foal coat the color that they are is their adult coat color. However, I have a colt from this year whom I am not quite sure what shade he will be so thought it might be fun to ask.

My colt was born a pretty average bay color but did have dark hair in his whorl which was unique…

5 days:
http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/Sumo5days.jpg

Then he started to shed and I was sure he was going to be quite dark:
http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/Sumo1month3.jpg

But then he lost the dark hairs and went lighter again:
http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/SumoJuly2620112.jpg

Until fully shedded out and starting to grow winter hair in Sept:
http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/SumoSept2720114.jpg

Now that winter is fully here he is really dark again:
http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/SumoDec2011.jpg

So just wondering, will his Sept coat (the lighter bay) be his adult coat or will he continue to change? What is everyone’s thoughts as to final color?

[summerhorse]

I think his winter coat will be closer to his true color, he might even go seal brown. You can’t tell much from baby coats and his was also sun burnt. Of course he will lighten up again if he is kept outside all the time.

[ohrebecca]

Whatever color he ends up being, he’s gonna be cute! (sorry for my not-so-helpful input!)

[xsalute]

Cute baby!
My baby did this - she is dark bay in winter and lighter is the summer. She is exactly the same color as you baby is in winter down to the brown nose, but each summer she is the lighter bay. She is out 24/7 all year round so the sun might bleach her out a bit. She is 3 y.o. now and still does this.

[TrinitySporthorses]

[QUOTE=xsalute;6048391]
Cute baby!
My baby did this - she is dark bay in winter and lighter is the summer. She is exactly the same color as you baby is in winter down to the brown nose, but each summer she is the lighter bay. She is out 24/7 all year round so the sun might bleach her out a bit. She is 3 y.o. now and still does this.[/QUOTE]

Well, Cindy, my only Bay foal is going grey so I don’t have the experience to say one way or the other on your guy BUT I also have a mare who is bright red bay in the summer and her winter coat looks much like the current coat on Sumo. FWIW.

[JB]

He’s one I would like to see tested. He’s very much like my mare, whom I also need to test. The Summer/short coat looks bay, but the Winter/dark coat looks very brown.

Because of how red his muzzle is in the Winter picture, I suspect he’s bay though. My mare’s muzzle isn’t quite so red, but isn’t obviously golden-hued like a brown is usually.

Do you have more newborn pictures? I wouldn’t be shocked if he tested brown, even though I think he’s bay. The first picture shows what seems to be countershading on his withers and shoulders, which is pretty common in browns. However, bay with sooty can do that too. However, I don’t see the other tell-tale brown indicator of shadowing around his head.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

Thanks everyone for the replies and compliments!

JB here are a couple of additional photos of him at 5 days old if that helps:

http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/Sumo5days2.jpg

http://www.cindyswarmbloods.com/images/Sumo5days3.jpg

I am kind of guessing that he will stay the lighter bay though was hoping he might have some darker highlights in the summer since my favourite color is a bay with dapples or slightly darker bay. Oh well, he is adorable either way!

[JB]

I still think he’s bay, but I wouldn’t argue if he tested brown LOL I think brown is a remote chance.

[rodawn]

Cindy, is Sumo out of Mascara???

While I’m leaning towards the “bay” spectrum… if he surprises us all and ends up brown or dark … then could it be possible he might be a smokey (since Mascara is buckskin)??? Wouldn’t that be fun!

FWIW, I’ve had a bright bay foal do a 180 and become very dark brown, almost black.

[copper_bay_farm]

Interesting photos. I must admit I have always been a little befuddled about brown vs. bay. My weanling Hanoverian colt has gone through a variety of changes and has ended up quite dark except for some lighter areas on his nose and midsection. Darker when born (wet), to a lighter shade, to red, and back to a very dark chocolatey hue with his winter coat. His sire is Shakespeare RSF (Sandro Hit).

I have an older TB gelding I always considered seal brown who is lighter in summer, but very dark with black hues in the winter. He looks black right now in the winter next to this colt where the baby looks very, very dark but not quite black.

Just born
http://copperbayfarm.com/images/Szebastien/195139_216479038368627_100000195976138_984788_5715533_o.jpg
http://copperbayfarm.com/images/Szebastien/207061_217062468310284_100000195976138_988634_3741583_n.jpg

A few weeks old
http://copperbayfarm.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_4711.jpg

4 months
http://copperbayfarm.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/185346_268411513175379_100000195976138_1261249_1501293_n.jpg

6.5 months (if anything he is darker now at 8 mos old)
http://copperbayfarm.com/images/Szebastien/DSC_0043.jpg
http://copperbayfarm.com/images/Szebastien/338159_312117535471443_100000195976138_1453781_2138692444_o-1.jpg

[JB]

copper bay, see all that shadowing/countershading on his shoulders, withers, and face? Very typical brown

This is how my brownie looked at a day old - granted, he’s darker than yours, but you can still see the shading

He quickly bleached that foal coat and once it was all bleached, he actually looked like a regular bay

Then, once he started shedding that coat, you can see how brown his face became, including the golden muzzle

Then THAT coat bleached but you can still see how not-red the hue is

And finally, most of his Winter coat/color came in, but you can still see the golden muzzle. His muzzle is much darker now, but is still highlighted with golden hairs.

That’s brown, even if a dark shade

[copper_bay_farm]

Thanks JB! So interesting. And I thought he would be boring without any bling. Your boy is very beautiful! I like the last photo. Szebastien has those bleached tips too on his forelock/mane which is striking against the darker color. He has a full sibling on the way for spring so it will be interesting to see what we get this year.

I have to laugh as my office assistant is not a horse person so when we are working on the AHS website or magazine/stallion book she sees no difference between chestnut/brown/bay/black. “Of course Szebastien is brown, all horses are brown, unless they are white [gray],” she says, and she cannot figure out why I would even wonder about it when filling out his registration papers. To her all horses are brown or white or a combination thereof. Pintos are the best of both worlds. So if someone sends a photo in the horse is either either brown or white. It’s an office joke.

[JB]

Thank you! I used that last picture as “proof” that black-based horses can express flaxen :lol: Yes, I’m a geek, you might not get that LOL

I think a solid, dark horse can be very, very fancy