"Behind in training"

[Feathered_Feet]

I think there is a lot of conflating requirements for multiple reward programs in this thread.

Through USDF, you can qualify for:

• medals
• regionals
• various USDF year end awards

… among other year end awards/programs through USDF or your breed organization. And each has different requirements (though sometimes overlapping). Some require different judges, others different rides, some require different shows, etc.

I would advise anyone seriously interested in any reward program to look up the requirements from your GMO directly. Whatever you do, do not rely on what anyone has said in this thread

[enjoytheride]

Strongly agree, there is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding in this thread.

[anon55755751]

Thank you for sharing this term! I just had some fun looking up some examples!

ETA: Courtesy of the wayback machine, i looked at the rules from 2005 and will confirm @Mondo is correct. The medal reqs are right below the rider performance award reqs which includes two different competitions. Knowing myself (neurotic) I surely read that and projected the stricter req to the medals “just in case”.

[TheDBYC]

Our trainer (an upper level eventer) knocked out the 2nd and 3rd level tests for the Bronze in one weekend. Her horse was one that required calm, competent ground support at competitions and that was the only weekend that everyone was free to go with them. Lol.

[Cortana]

I made the same choice for my PRE. Don’t regret the extra ground work, hand walking, grooming, and quality time for her to develop herself outside of expected timelines. When we did move to undersaddle work right before she turned four it was seamless.

Predefined measures are helpful for planning, especially around development, but they aren’t the rule for each individual horses training. After the correct maturity is reached to carry a rider, it’s best to tailor things to the horse (assuming the rider is proficient). Some will need more stimulus and varied activities than others, but I hope everyone is always encouraged to go at a pace that fits the horse.

Congratulations on working with your horse’s best interests at heart and appreciate you bringing this to the conversation.

[Hilary]

Back to the “is the horse behind in his training”, my gelding turned 5 a week ago. He was easy to start -he’s mellow and agreeable. But he’s lazy. So stuff like cantering with the legs in the right order and on the right lead when asked? Why?? So we couldn’t even really show training level because he either won’t pick up one lead, or he cross cantered, or did a bunch of flying changes.

Then his body matured over the winter and it all fell into place (also, lots of training…) . He made more progress in the past 6 weeks than he did in the past year. But I was wondering if I had the best W/T horse on the planet. So yes he was way behind, but now he’s caught up.

And a question about medal scores, while we’re here. If you are fortunate enough to have 2 horses at the same level can you get 2 scores at the same show? If you rode under 2 judges?

[cnm161]

You can get 2 medal scores on one horse at the same show. No spare horse required.

[lorilu]

@J-Lu

They wanted all horses to move up the levels. $$$$$ rather than showing at the appropriate level.

At no time that I can remember did USDF “want” horses to move up the levels. There are no restrictions regarding how long you can stay at one level. Regarding having to do second level to get your bronze, besides the fact that it is YOUR choice (if he was schooling fourth, why not just go for Silver?), there are movements at Second that lay the foundation for success at higher levels. THAT is what USDF is interested in - a horse with good foundations, not someone who learns the tricks of Third and is given a bronze for that. (NOT saying that is what you want.)

[Cowgirl]

Yes, they catch up. I did not want to pound my guy as a 3 year old, so I waited until he was 3-1/2 to start, then he had 3 months off after the start, then another 3 months over the winter. So he will be 5 in July and by then he will be just a year total under saddle. Before the last 3 month break, I didn’t have any canter and I had no control over the trot and couldn’t circle. He came off of the 3 month break circling in trot and cantering. I have been riding him again since mid March (not quite 2 months) and he is schooling first level (but he also does shoulder in/haunches in). Today, he cantered 20 meter circles (two in a row), which is big progress. He has a half halt. He can turn on the haunch and forehand (which I started in hand); he leg yields; he rein backs; he can go forward and back in trot (and a little in canter). It’s amazing what physical maturity will do. They can and do catch up. It’s more important to train at their own pace.

[svvdressage]

When I see an ad that says “behind in training” it’s usually a 8+ year old that’s schooling training/1st. I see it as an explanation for a discounted price. Usually a quality horse that as a 4 year old or 9 year old schooling 4th would have been $$$, but because he’s been on the back burner they are discounting the price and they want you to know it’s not because he’s been injured or has no work ethic.

[Scribbler]

@svvdressage

When I see an ad that says “behind in training” it’s usually a 8+ year old that’s schooling training/1st. I see it as an explanation for a discounted price. Usually a quality horse that as a 4 year old or 9 year old schooling 4th would have been $$$, but because he’s been on the back burner they are discounting the price and they want you to know it’s not because he’s been injured or has no work ethic.

Ha it’s so dependent on the particular market segment.

I’m at the low end of nice horses where showing First Level is considered aspirational:)

What we get a lot of in my sphere is “started late” which is a horse anywhere from 5 to 15 that finally got pulled off the back 40 last winter and sent to the cowboy colt starter for 30 days. “Finish your way.”

I call them fallen through the cracks horses. They can be fairly nice horses, the people in their life ran out of focus and time. Or they could have had an injury or a behavior problem when they were younger and have had 5 years on a field to think about life.

[anon55755751]

@Scribbler

the low end of nice horses

Can you elaborate/be more specific about what you mean by this? What I first thought is not consistent with “1st level is aspirational”.

[Scribbler]

@anon55755751

@Scribbler

the low end of nice horses

Can you elaborate/be more specific about what you mean by this? What I first thought is not consistent with “1st level is aspirational”.

So I’m at a self board primarily recreational riding club barn with Pony Club and some adults who dabble in dressage.

Everyone is on a budget and most people have a bit of an eye for a nice horse. So we end up with a high percentage of project horses, fallen through the cracks horses, etc. So there are OTTB, OTSB, quarter horses, and most of the WB are small breeder or half TB. Retired show Arab. Another Arab bought out of a backyard of someone who couldn’t handle him. Etc.

By contrast as a child I was just around Low End of Horses and bought my wonderful little mare off a dubious dude string operation that shipped in wildies off an Indian reservation every spring and broke them in on hourly trail rides. Very few horses in our area had known provenance or breeding.

I say showing first is aspirational a bit tongue in cheek, but a number of my barn buddies either get stuck at Training or couldn’t even pull together a walk trot test without horsey insubordination. And the in Barn coaches can certainly break down a horse schooling First.

There are horses that on paper could pull it together to show first but aren’t going to get there quickly under current constraints.

But the folks who do want to make coherent progress tend to find a training program and move out to a more focused barn.

I feel like we had more dressage adults when I arrived here about ten years ago but that’s thinned out, just how things cycle I guess.

[Zevida]

@svvdressage

When I see an ad that says “behind in training” it’s usually a 8+ year old that’s schooling training/1st. I see it as an explanation for a discounted price. Usually a quality horse that as a 4 year old or 9 year old schooling 4th would have been $$$, but because he’s been on the back burner they are discounting the price and they want you to know it’s not because he’s been injured or has no work ethic.

Ditto this is the exact usage of it that I’ve seen.

[joiedevie99]

@svvdressage

When I see an ad that says “behind in training” it’s usually a 8+ year old that’s schooling training/1st. I see it as an explanation for a discounted price. Usually a quality horse that as a 4 year old or 9 year old schooling 4th would have been $$$, but because he’s been on the back burner they are discounting the price and they want you to know it’s not because he’s been injured or has no work ethic.

Same. This is what I expect when I see the term. An 8 year old doing 1st level or an 11 year old that is “schooling third” with a very green change, that are otherwise nice enough horses to be “on track” with a pro.

[Manni01]

Yes ! Great Post!
They do catch up easily.

[J-Lu]

I had already gone beyond second and into third. When doing second, I was located in an area with no local shows. I was not happy having to go back to second to get scores and pay bunches of money to do so. But that’s me. Money isn’t much on an object to others.

And I do think the USDF has shown signs of wanting to make money. They wanted to have people qualify in order to show at the next level for a while there. That means someone HAD to show regularly in order to move up the levels, despite their training program at home. Very many people don’t show talented horses at training or first, and very many people skip showing at levels for whatever reason. That proposed rule was bogus.

[Manni01]

I agree that USDF wants to make money but I don’t believe it’s because they want you to do specific levels…. that part is about the most liberal system I ever experienced….
It’s ok to make requirements for achievements, otherwise it wouldn’t be an achievement….

But it you want to you can enter GP with your horse. The only person judging your abilities for that is yourself…. In Germany you cannot even enter TL if you don’t pass a certification for that level….

[lorilu]

And remember that rules can be proposed by ANYONE. Not always someone from leadership….

[atr]

Its not the horse thats behind in training, its me!