Honest question here as I understand if you start a horse under saddle at 4ish, and then in theory train up a level per year - but what exactly qualifies a horse being “behind in their training”? I ask this as I feel that there’s an expectation that horses have changes by such and such an age, or schooling PSG, and if they haven’t made GP by pre-teens… Which is fine - but why such importance put on this timeline? What if your horse takes 2 years to get solid clean changes and can’t show third until they’re 9? If you reach GP by 10-12 - so what? At the risk of not having a sound and healthy horse to enjoy for the next decade? It just seems so often to me a race to the finish line. On one hand I get it for a pro who needs to develop a horse for sale, but for your every day AA?
I’m truly curious so please don’t flame me for asking TIA!
A lot of times it simply refers to a mare that’s had time off for a foal or two. If a gelding, it’s possible he just stood out in a pasture for a few years after being started because - a zillion possible reasons.
I don’t take it to mean that the horse isn’t doing a particular level by a particular age, only that the horse has some holes in the timeline for various reasons. I think those horses can be real diamonds in the rough - low mileage and all that.
It makes a difference if you are buying a horse who has been developed by a pro. There is an expectation that the horse will progress along a timeline that roughly follows the FEI young horse tests, and particularly if you are buying a horse as a top competitive prospect.
If a good pro isn’t producing the horse along that timeline, you want to know why. Started late? Needed more time to grow? Had a foal? Took a year off to recover from a serious injury?
For the rest of us I don’t think the timeline matters one bit. Who cares if an ammy’s horse gets its changes at 6 or at 8
Agree with BigMama1. Horses in professional training should all progress at about the same rate. If they don’t there might be an issue with soundness or suitability.
Average Ammy not hitting 3rd until Dobbin is 13 is entirely different.
I will say that there’s a big difference between having a sound and healthy horse for the next decade and a horse that doesn’t have the competent riding to get a horse up the levels. If you haven’t put changes on your horse by the time he’s in his teens he’s not likely to get them (yes there are exceptions). This will probably offend people but the fact is that most of us just don’t have the skill and experience to progress faster.
I have a horse in my barn who’s not officially 3 until May. Still kind of feral. That horse would be WAY behind in a show barn because it should be started under saddle showing by now.
Yes I would agree. this timeline is mostly important for people who want to sell their horses for a lot of money…. If the horse is on the right level with the right show miles according to his age chances are good that he will be more expensive.
But it is a bit tricky and there are exceptions…I believe Steffen Peters bought Legolas from Kasselman and he had hardly any showmiles. Of course there were arguments why but as far as I remember he was mostly schooled by Kasselman at home. Still I assume he was rather pricey.
I believe there is this thread here in the moment how to price a horse without showmiles…. Another example for how important it is that the horse has showmiles according to his age.
Horses are mostly about money and so somehow you have to find arguments to price them in a specific way.
But If you want to keep your horse for yourself, I would recommend not to get under pressure about what he should school or show. You always have to consider that there are a lot of washouts from this system.
If you have only one horse you need to keep him Healthy and Happy first and only then you need to worry what he should school according to his age…. Professionals simply train the next horse if one doesn’t last
I backed my four year old only last fall before she turned 4. I believe that is healthier for her body developement to keep her in the pasture as long as possible. but as a result she is already behind….
The international circuit FEI horses basically debut at PSG which gets them to Grand Prix in time to amass points and be in serious competition by their early teens. They do not bother with a level a year they don’t bother with first to fourth, all of that is counterproductive to the goals here.
First to fourth is for the rest of us. Most ammies never make it past first. Behind in their training here is more likely, didn’t get started until they were 8 or 10 and are still greenbroke.
If the horse is 8 or 10 and confirmed in what it knows, the ad would say “ammie safe and good minded horse with solid scores at first level and potential to go higher.” That’s not behind in training. That’s actually aspirational to many ammies.
Obviously a high end WB intended for international competition only going w t c at 10 has missed the bus to the Olympics and is another kettle of fish, but these horses don’t get advertised as “behind on training.” There’s going to be a story here, injury or pregnancy or meltdown, and someone around to take a bet on the horse
In the ads that we get to see online, it means the horse sat in a field until last year because the owner lost the plot, or the horse was unsound, or the horse bucked people off, etc. And got started under saddle 6 months ago for a quick sale. The lower end of nice horses is full of what I call fallen through the cracks horses
It’s only a term for advertising. It’s not a term we apply to a horse while it’s owned. If you can safely ride your horse every day it’s not behind in it’s training. Most horses top out because of the owners limitations anyhow.
The other words are “holes in the training” or “topped out” or “trail horse” for various situations where a horse doesn’t know some arena stuff you might expect.
But again for most ammies riders it is the skill set and fitness level of the rider that keeps the horse and rider combo at a certain level.
I’d never look at the typical safe ammie horse where the rider is showing Training, schooling First and trying out pieces of Second year over year, and say the they are behind in their training. The horse is just perfect for the rider
AA rider here who does keep an eye on the time line. I don’t know why as I have no intentions to sell but to me I just want to keep up with the pros on the schedule. I want my young horse to be fit, educated and progressing. For example I bought at 4 (as a simple wtc horse) and now we are just about ready to show 3rd at 7yo. My last horse I bought at 5 (1st level) and hit PSG at 10. I have shown my current horse at 1st level 2 seasons ago just to get him mileage but I have no plans to show again until at least PSG. I just can’t afford showing right now and I have a pretty good idea of where we are lacking or excelling.
To me the time line is important. My type A personality just couldn’t relax if I felt we fell behind with our schedule unless it was due to an injury.
Within the professional/high performance sphere - people are thinking about age restricted classes when they say “behind in their training.” FEI Young Horse classes are available for 4-7 year olds. Developing PSG for 7-9 and Developing GP for 8-10. The timeline is irrelevant for an amateur who is bringing themselves up the levels at the same time as the horse.
When someone says in an ad that a horse is behind in their training - what they mean to imply is that the horse is of the quality/talent where a professional would have had the horse on this track, but for whatever the reason is that it is not.
That’s really impressive. Very very few ammies achieve this. You have personal goals and can track on them.
Many pros of course don’t take a horse “up the levels” but rather get them confirmed first or second and sell to an ammie home at a good price. Many ammies can’t ride above that level and don’t need a horse that piaffes every time the rider loses balance
Thank you. I’m so driven. To a fault at times. My first horse I rode 5xs a week, without fail, I was on a mission! But bc I rushed I had some holes in my basics and our scores were on average in the 66 range. This horse I decided that I’m going to to it right no matter how long it takes. You know what? It takes just as long to do it right as it does rushing lol. So it’s best to settle down on the basics, get them solid and then everything else will fall in line. Some days I feel like I couldn’t ride a good first level test others I’m going to the Olympics. Lol. I’ve never trained P&P but I’ve been studying and started the groundwork. I’m so looking forward to getting some help with it.
I LOVE the process and the partnership. It’s so addicting.
My current horse is “behind” in her training for various reasons which don’t concern me at all. She started at 4.5 after a foal, she took a long time for me to teach correct response to half halts and true throughness, we lost my trainer. My new trainer is sure we can make it to GP barring the many thousands of things which can happen because of the focus on correct basics and her amazing mind.
My older mare had health issues (incredibly painful heat cycles which caused her to try to curl into fetal position, leading to eventual lameness from compensation and whacky hormones) and some delays due to my injuries and health issues (asthma/bronchitis repeated issues.) She was never fancy, but I bought her because of her inherent tendency toward GP work. Without delays and with me mostly riding her, we would have hit GP close to the young horse timeline simply because it was easy with her. When she was 2, she would piaffe in hand, at 3 if you put legs on solidly she would piaffe. I think she was 4 when I intentionally asked for piaffe and she gave it to me. We were schooling 3 and 4 tempis, full pirouettes and GP steep half passes, plus piaffe/passage transitions when a stall injury then systemic issues stopped us. With her, it wasn’t rushed - just what she naturally and inherently wanted to do.
My horse who is “behind” gets long and powerful in response to leg, so teaching her to sit off seat and leg has taken time just because of her nature. She’s incredibly athletic and gives no reason to think she can’t do anything. Her progress is just slower because she wasn’t born collected…but she’s far more spectacular when collected.
I think that training a horse a level per year is a bit of a falacey with Americans. I had this conversation with Scott Hassler, who agreed with me. Horses don’t fit a mold because each are individuals.
I’ve seen horses reaching GP at 10-12 who were permanently lame by 14. Or needed extensive shoeing to stay sound at 12-14. So many “schoolmasters” are neurotic by 12-14 from being over-ridden and over-pushed.
Many pushed horses through the European auctions, the US young-horse program and up the levels year by year don’t make it and/or end up lame or mentally fried.
When I lived in Region 9, a now Olympian purchased a “late developer” and trained him up for an Olympic bid.
Horses are individuals and most don’t make it to GP, even if they are bred for it. There is no timeline for a horse to “make it” unless you have the money to buy many and toss aside the horses who don’t. The pro needing a horse to sell faces the same risk of injuring than horse by pushing them past what the horse can do and getting a reputation for doing just that.
Horses are not machines. They absolutely do not progress at the same rate and stay physically or mentally sound.
I very much disagree with this post. “The average Ammy not hitting 3rd until Dobbin is 13” usually results in a sound horse. Or speaks to a horse that is very difficult horse. What a strange statement.
Professional trainers, it they are professionals, will wait for the horse.to accept the work. No trainer I’ve ever known expects all horses to follow a cookie-cutter routine. Some horses’ progress varies throughout their training. No actual trainer will deny that.
I think a lot of things are not seen with looking at professionals and how they train. Pro horses aren’t generally brought to shows until PSG so you do not necessarily see the timeline of their early years. Some horses take longer to learn the basics but then fly up, others move steadily up in training. The average person doesn’t see horse 1 still doing training level work at 6 years old while horse 2 is training second level because horse 1 doesn’t collect as well so needs more work at the basics while horse 2 is more of a natural dressage horse.
But often that extra time going over the basics means the horse needs less time working on more difficult work.
And then, as others have said, no horse is behind on training with whatever they do with their “permanent” owner (this is to include amateurs and the horses pro’s own themselves/have no intention of selling).
A level per year is a totally arbitrary benchmark. Many horses have trouble finding a clean change never mind a string of them. SOme horses have a really hard time with tension and learning new things. Some horses reach higher levels with the “tricks” with huge holes in their foundation and new owners go back to the foundation of relaxation and contact to reestablish a good base then move on - and that can take a year, or even two.
It’s an artificial “benchmark” made to make some folks feel superior.
Yes, yes, yes! All horses progress at a different rate. A super talented young horse with an exceptional pro may advance to a set timeline. A late-maturing horse, or one who is mentally difficult, may need more time. The worst thing a trainer can do is be rigid about where a horse should be at a certain age. Too many good horses get ruined by ambitious trainers who don’t listen to their horse.
Funny thing was my more “difficult personality” horse progressed more quickly because from the time she started under saddle, if you out your legs on, she folded her hind legs. In her case, it was developing power in the movements which was very slow, but sitting was easy.
I’m super grateful for my trainer / my mare’s breeder who helped me understand what basics to work on when she was talented enough we could have faked it some, because we’d be hitting a wall now instead of her really learning to sit well with true throughness.
There are clearly a lot of variables such as soundness and mental readiness of the horse. However, young purpose bred horses in a program with a competent trainer progress at roughly the same rate. Horses are not machines, but we have a training scale and a progression of difficulty in tests for a reason.
It’s pretty common knowledge that many ammys struggle to hit third, and it’s also a fact that the older a horse is the less likely he will be to get dressage flying changes or learn to sit. Combined with the fact that many ammys are often mounted on non purpose bred horses that might have conformational limitations, might not have the time commitment necessary, the skill or experience, or might not have access to good instruction. You saying a horse might be sound is not related and makes no sense.
TIA!
