Being a jerk in the stall

[MsM]

I haven’t been riding for a few days and only got out to the barn today when I finally felt good enough to not take a muscle relaxer during the day (Hurt my back last week picking out a hoof!). I was greeted with a “your horse…” from the BO. It seems he was being a jerk again in his stall. We are trying to figure out what to do.

Barn has stall lining two aisles with two sets of crossties on each. Doors are gates with the yoke opening so they can stick their heads out. I have had my horse since last August. Horses have all day paddock turnout. He has already had to change stalls once as he got in a stall kicking contest with a neighbor in his first stall. Now he is at the end and there is currently an empty stall next to him.

He is generally well behaved although he is a “busy” boy. First problem is when the horses have to stay in due to bad weather. When the horse across the aisle (only one he can see) is taken out of his sight he often gets upset, spins and kicks the walls. When his stall is to be cleaned he is let into the indoor but BO reports that he gets frantic running and calling since he is “alone”. In both cases she is concerned that he will injure himself and/or damage the place. At this point I told her that if the indoor is available to put him in there and that I understand the risks.

Second problem is when they are in and someone uses the crossties near him. He tries to reach the horse and also spins and yells. If tied in the stall he reportedly bounces and kicks. :rolleyes:

The only quieter stall not near a crosstie is occupied by a cranky horse that cannot be moved. I am considering getting him a full stall gate without a yoke. Another option may be reinstalling the solid wood door that used to be on the stall. He has stall toys but they do little to pacify him. I have yet to see his “performance” but am trying to figure out how to correct him. Suggestions?

[Sugarwells]

Turn him out with free choice hay. Does he at least have a hay net filled in his stall?

[MsM]

He has all day turnout weather permitting. Problems are when they are in due to bad weather or when someone comes at night to ride. He will do it even with hay and an edible stall toy.

[PushersBlue]

Sounds like he is just not built for stall life, even if outside all day weather permitting and there’s not a lot you can do (unless he’s being fed too much for not being ridden lately). I’m assuming the facility doesn’t offer turnout with a shelter or stall for your definition of bad weather? Willing to bet if you moved him full-time turnout, all the problems would disappear.

[Pennywell_Bay]

I have one that can’t live out, is turned out weather permitting and he CAN’T have a stall gate. no amount of Hay or toys will pacify him. He’s on low starch Hay, slow Hay net, toys and still throws himself against the gate. With his door, he’s perfect.

[SnortyPants]

I guess I’ll never understand the logic of horses having to be in overnight, or just about any time at all. I like mine to briefly come in 2x a day because one needs grain/supplements and I like them to be handled daily, but it’s in, eat, out. Or groom/ride/lunge thrown in there. The only weather I bring them in for is ice rain or winds that could bring down tree branches.

Your horse sounds like he hasn’t had to deal with this, and he’s bored. I’d push to get him out 24/7 if possible, before he develops anxiety behavior like cribbing or weaving.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@SnortyPants

I guess I’ll never understand the logic of horses having to be in overnight, or just about any time at all. I like mine to briefly come in 2x a day because one needs grain/supplements and I like them to be handled daily, but it’s in, eat, out. Or groom/ride/lunge thrown in there. The only weather I bring them in for is ice rain or winds that could bring down tree branches.

Your horse sounds like he hasn’t had to deal with this, and he’s bored. I’d push to get him out 24/7 if possible, before he develops anxiety behavior like cribbing or weaving.

The logic or logistics? For some barns, it is not possible to have them out overnight or all day. They dont’ have the space, they aren’t comfortable having horses out with no one on the premises and many other totally legitimate reasons. Half of mine live out and love it. I have 3 that can’t tolerate being out 24/7. 1 has an chronic injury, 1 has a chronic condition and the other is my show horse who tends to be a hot house flower and would injure herself if she was out 24/7. for 90% of the horses, they’d prefer to be out. That just isn’t always feasible and owners and BO/BM do their best to mitigate the negative side of being stalled. If you don’t like it- don’t be in that situation but save your judgement.

[CFFarm]

Since he can’t have 24 turn out your options are limited. Try cutting back his grain at night and spread more hay around in piles in the stall. Kicking chains may be necessary at night. Try different stall toys (things filled with treats he has to work for). If he runs and calls in the indoor when turned out alone…so be it. a lot of horses carry on when their buddies are gone. Just make sure there’s nothing around for him to hurt himself on. If you can hand graze him away from other horses (added more time each try) it may help him learn that good things happen when he’s alone. If possible sometimes a stall mate helps (goat, chicken).

[Tigoli]

Is it possible for them to turn him out in the indoor with one of his pasture buddies? He sounds like a horse that needs other horses around all the time… though perhaps he’s not helping himself out here with the kicking and messing about with cross-ties facepalm if only we could explain these things to them! My barn uses one of the indoors for day time turn out during bad weather, but they never put anyone in there alone.

While 24/7 turnout might be a great option for your guy, it doesn’t sound like your barn is equipped for it. Neither is mine! A full gate sounds like a good place to start. If there’s an extra around the barn see if the BO will let you try it out and see if it helps at all.

[Posting_Trot]

I would opt for putting the full door back on. I think that some horses can’t deal with the frustration of seeing and not being able to get at whatever might be going on in the aisle.

I’d also recommend trying to reward calm, quiet behavior while in the stall. To do that you’d have to set up a situation where he’s likely to act out, but try to reward him before he does the acting out to give him some positive incentive for remaining cool. This would take some concerted work over several days, but it might give you a more lasting payoff at the end.

[longlanefarm]

More movement, less “grain”, more forage, more interaction with other horses. Sounds like he’s bored and has too much energy to be thrown in a stall without anyone nearby. Can be be turned out with another horse? I would opt for 24/7 turnout if at all possible. My horses could care less about stupid stall toys. They want friends, food, and movement…like any normal horse. His behavior isn’t “bad”…he’s telling you he wants to be a horse.

[MsM]

Thanks for the ideas. I don’t know of anywhere with 24 hr turnout that also has decent rings. Anyway, he was in a stall situation in his previous home and seemed okay but his stall was in a quieter location. He gets little grain and is ridden 5-6 times a week when my back allows! Recently I have gone up to encourage him to blast around the indoor until I can ride again. I think his issue is more mental than physical as the BO reports his antics even on days when he has worked pretty hard.
In turnout he has over-the-fence buddies that he plays with. It is a boarding barn and the paddocks are not large. So far nobody else wants him in the same paddock.
BO reports that food of any sort doesn’t help when he is having his snit fit. He has a treat toy hanging in his stall that he does work at. He is good to handle (BO reports easy to lead even when he had been acting up in his stall) . Most of the time he is no problem as he seems okay with the usual schedule. The two circumstances I mentioned are the issues. And of course it is never when I am around!

I will talk to the BO about putting the solid wood door back on if possible. I am hoping if he cant see the horse on the crossties he wont get so upset. And of course, he cant be a pest to them. Other option is getting that full gate. And I am also of the opinion that he will just have to deal when turned out in the indoor.

[NancyM]

He’s not being a “jerk”. He’s being a horse. He has opinions, thoughts, ideas, needs. He is unhappy in the situation he is in. Horses are herd animals, having relationships with other horses is VERY important to keeping them sane and happy and content, all things that are very important to your goals with him in terms of recreation or competition. That relationship is extended to his human when you are with him, riding him and training him. Some horses are more “needy” than others are. Your horse is being held against his will, in a jail cell, away from other horses, and you are not there for him full time. Caging him in further with a full gate will keep him from harassing other boarders and their horses with his problems and stress, but is not going to make him any happier. He is stressed, and he is telling you that this is his problem. He is lonely, and is desperate for companionship, and is herdbound to any other horse he sees as a result. I don’t know how you can change this for him, since apparently more natural ways of keeping horses seem to be out of the realm of possibility in your situation, or how you can help him be more relaxed and contented in his current home. Having a “toy” isn’t going to cut it or satisfy his needs. He is not well suited to this way of keeping horses, he is not “OK” with it. Some horses are, but for him, he is stressed. The next thing is he will get sick, colic, ulcers. He will get injured, kicking the walls, racing around by himself, screaming his discontent in the indoor arena. Then he will not be satisfying your needs as your riding horse, and you will have vet bills. I choose to not keep my horses this way. If I were you, I would look around for a place that your horse is happier with the living accommodations.

[theresak]

I think you need to find him another living situation…

It sounds like he needs to be in a quieter barn, with horses in stalls on either side of him. He needs group turnout with 3+ other horses, some that will hopefully engage/play with him. He needs hay in front of him all the time.

[Nestor]

Your first issue I identify with completely. But I feel like the responses so far are focused on the second issue, his rambunctiousness. More turnout and hay is not the answer for the first issue.

I have self-diagnosed my own horse with isolophobia. Not kidding. He cannot be alone. Not in his stall, not in the ring, not in turnout. I work with him to be better about not being able to see other horses, but even then he’s not reliable alone and it’s only with me that he’s ok, so it doesn’t really help generally. He just has to be managed accordingly. He can’t be left alone. My barn mates all understand this and are aware of his quirks. He can’t be turned out first in the morning or left out til last. He can’t be left in the barn alone for any reason. He will lose his mind. He’s 21 and still hasn’t “gotten over it” despite working with him for his entire life. It’s just who he is.

So he needs to not be in a situation where he’s completely alone. If he needs to leave his stall when it’s cleaned, can he go on crossties where he can see other horses? In the empty stall next to his? (Yes, even with no bedding, hay, or water. He’ll live for those 10 minutes.) Otherwise yes, a trusted buddy with him in the indoor would be good too.

As for the second issue, I’d probably just get him a gate/door without a yolk, preferably not the solid wooden door because then he’s more likely to freak out about being alone. Some horses just can’t be allowed to stick their heads out. Mine, for example, once ate an electrical outlet.

How much is he exercised? How much turnout does he usually get? Both of those things, along with the calories going in, will impact how wild he is in the stall. But some horses are just into everything. Toys help initially, but not long-term. He needs to be mentally (and physically) stimulated more. Longer turnout, turnout in a hillier paddock/field, more and varied exercise, these are all things that will help him “settle” when he is in his stall.

[ABitDrafty]

@MsM

Thanks for the ideas. I don’t know of anywhere with 24 hr turnout that also has decent rings. Anyway, he was in a stall situation in his previous home and seemed okay but his stall was in a quieter location. He gets little grain and is ridden 5-6 times a week when my back allows! Recently I have gone up to encourage him to blast around the indoor until I can ride again. I think his issue is more mental than physical as the BO reports his antics even on days when he has worked pretty hard.
In turnout he has over-the-fence buddies that he plays with. It is a boarding barn and the paddocks are not large. So far nobody else wants him in the same paddock.
BO reports that food of any sort doesn’t help when he is having his snit fit. He has a treat toy hanging in his stall that he does work at. He is good to handle (BO reports easy to lead even when he had been acting up in his stall) . Most of the time he is no problem as he seems okay with the usual schedule. The two circumstances I mentioned are the issues. And of course it is never when I am around!

I will talk to the BO about putting the solid wood door back on if possible. I am hoping if he cant see the horse on the crossties he wont get so upset. And of course, he cant be a pest to them. Other option is getting that full gate. And I am also of the opinion that he will just have to deal when turned out in the indoor.

Possibly could be due to him not having enough social interaction. I had a horse go from being turned out with a buddy at one farm to being turned out alone but beside horses at the new farm. Even though he could touch them over the fence it wasn’t enough for him. He turned into a grumpy snot that couldn’t even handle being ridden alone even though he used to be fine with it. Started turning him out WITH another horse and he went back to being a chill sweetheart.

[SnortyPants]

@Pennywell Bay

The logic or logistics? For some barns, it is not possible to have them out overnight or all day. They dont’ have the space, they aren’t comfortable having horses out with no one on the premises and many other totally legitimate reasons. Half of mine live out and love it. I have 3 that can’t tolerate being out 24/7. 1 has an chronic injury, 1 has a chronic condition and the other is my show horse who tends to be a hot house flower and would injure herself if she was out 24/7. for 90% of the horses, they’d prefer to be out. That just isn’t always feasible and owners and BO/BM do their best to mitigate the negative side of being stalled. If you don’t like it- don’t be in that situation but save your judgement.

Calm down buttercup, this isn’t directed at you as I obviously have no knowledge of you or your horses. I’m just pointing out that many many people have an anthropomorphized view about when horses need to be in. I’ve seen it countless times, sometimes for the stupidest reasons such as not wanting to groom mud and dirt off, or not wanting a coat to fade. Get a shihtzu!!

Barn air is not great for their lungs. They evolved to be constantly moving and grazing, so it’s not great for their legs and digestive systems or circulatory systems either. Current thinking is changing around stalling injured horses too. And honestly who wants to muck stalls thst much?

I personally chose not to have horses when I lived in pricey parts of CA because I wasn’t willing to pay 2k a month so the poor thing could stand on a tiny sand lot. I recognize other people do, that’s their choice. But let’s not pretend it’s for the horse’s benefit.

[Sugarwells]

@NancyM

He’s not being a “jerk”. He’s being a horse. He has opinions, thoughts, ideas, needs. He is unhappy in the situation he is in. Horses are herd animals, having relationships with other horses is VERY important to keeping them sane and happy and content, all things that are very important to your goals with him in terms of recreation or competition. That relationship is extended to his human when you are with him, riding him and training him. Some horses are more “needy” than others are. Your horse is being held against his will, in a jail cell, away from other horses, and you are not there for him full time. Caging him in further with a full gate will keep him from harassing other boarders and their horses with his problems and stress, but is not going to make him any happier. He is stressed, and he is telling you that this is his problem. He is lonely, and is desperate for companionship, and is herdbound to any other horse he sees as a result. I don’t know how you can change this for him, since apparently more natural ways of keeping horses seem to be out of the realm of possibility in your situation, or how you can help him be more relaxed and contented in his current home. Having a “toy” isn’t going to cut it or satisfy his needs. He is not well suited to this way of keeping horses, he is not “OK” with it. Some horses are, but for him, he is stressed. The next thing is he will get sick, colic, ulcers. He will get injured, kicking the walls, racing around by himself, screaming his discontent in the indoor arena. Then he will not be satisfying your needs as your riding horse, and you will have vet bills. I choose to not keep my horses this way. If I were you, I would look around for a place that your horse is happier with the living accommodations.

Well said and I agree.

[CHT]

Vet clinics sometimes use mirrors (or even a fake plastic model horse) to help keep a horse company. The latter seems less practical, but can you try a safety mirror in his stall and see if he feels happier when the other horse leaves? What about calming supplements to break this cycle of anxiety until you can ride more?

[cheval_convert]

Your horse has spoken, are you willing to listen?