Being priced out of coaching

[CHT]

A spin off from the being priced out of a hobby.

I have a small lesson program. I used to have some very sensible horses I could borrow in case my lesson horses needed a break, but those horses aged out and retired, and my newer client horses are not lesson horse material.

Our good horse is 20 this year. Unfortunately he is too well trained to want to teach beginners. He is a good boy, but he is visibly frustrated and just wants to come in to the middle.

In 2021 I decided to re-expand the lesson program, but horse prices were…shocking. Even for oldies. I can’t charge what I feel is reasonable if I am paying $10k for an aged horse. So that fall I bought two lightly backed mares, and started training them. One was unsuitable (too big and too hot), so I traded her for a lightly started large pony mare.

Fall 2022 I was seriously injured on a client horse and no longer ride. I sold my personal horse, and found someone to ride once or twice a week to develop the two mares, but they are green green.

Summer 2022 I was loaned an unwell gelding from a former client. I got him better, but soundness was an issue. By winter he seemed sound enough, so I took on a beginner and a few other new clients. Turns out the horse has navicular and now a damaged DDFT> he is lame lame. Going to try giving him rest and see what happens

So now I have my well trained 20 year old, and two greenies. And I have three beginnerish students. Do I hope my 20 year old can cope? Look for a lease horse? I do have a client who would lease me her gelding…but he isn’t particularly sound…and is spooky indoors because she always cuts one end off…he would be good in nice weather.

it is a strange world where 20 year old horses still have high fours value. My two greenies aren’t going to be beginner suitable anytime soon (fat pony is a little on the hot side).

I would refer these students elsewhere if I could think of a place that I would feel good referring them too, but it is hard to find good, adult, “knows how to canter, but not ready to jump” lessons. The one new student came because she has lessoned for years, jumped 2’9" but didn’t know how to do a turn on the forehand! (Stupid EC rider levels)

Feeling frustrated. Obviously the world doesn’t owe these people horses to learn on, I just miss the days when finding new lesson horses wasn’t so hard.

(Edited to add, the 20 year old horse also has a lovely older lady that jumps him twice a week, and the green mare has one student that lessons on her 1-3 days a week)

[Scribbler]

When I did h/j lessons 15 years ago, the coach relied a bit on free leases from former juniors who had gone off to college or bought new horses. It worked out really well to have seasoned junior horses from low jumpers as lesson horses.

[CHT]

Yes, free leases used to be the thing, but they seemingly aren’t common anymore, as those horses can be sold or leased out for $$. Even so, a good old show horse, isn’t really usually the best beginner horse anyway.

Might give the old spooky horse a try with two students and see if they like him. My good boy is just going to get frustrated and he doesn’t deserve that.

[Scribbler]

@CHT

Yes, free leases used to be the thing, but they seemingly aren’t common anymore, as those horses can be sold or leased out for $$. Even so, a good old show horse, isn’t really usually the best beginner horse anyway.

Might give the old spooky horse a try with two students and see if they like him. My good boy is just going to get frustrated and he doesn’t deserve that.

For total beginners what about old ranch horses?

[Callista17]

Sorry- I have a lot of questions, because I am curious & want to help.
What are the plans for the greenies? Lesson program eventually?
Do you think the students will want to purchase/lease? (Are they serious?)
Will they show?
I think, if these students are showing, then either pass them on or try to find a suitable lease for them.
Keep in mind, with horse prices up, board up, some people want a half lease or whatever to help them keep owning their horses.
Here, it seems a weird time of old barns closing, new ones opening, others moving.

[Bristol_Bay]

I think you meant to post this in Off Course. Maybe ask @Moderator_1 to move it?

[S1969]

@CHT

Yes, free leases used to be the thing, but they seemingly aren’t common anymore, as those horses can be sold or leased out for $$. Even so, a good old show horse, isn’t really usually the best beginner horse anyway.

Bummer that it’s hard to coordinate with owners. I have a nice horse that’s been standing in my backyard for several years. I asked a trainer I know if they wanted to free lease and they didn’t. But I didn’t pursue it much because I am afraid to trust other trainers won’t ride her into the ground. She’s done beginner lessons before. I’d rather she just kept my other two company though, than risk that she’d be a broken down, miserable lesson horse.

[CHT]

Greenies are to be jumping lesson horses. The one already earns her keep, but it is hard because I can’t keep her training going between lessons and have to rely on a working student. The other one is just getting back into work since my injury with two volunteers. Not sure if she will be a lesson horse or a lease horse, but she is just an amazing horse to hang out with…a therapy horse. She is however, a little on the hot side.

My students won’t do the big shows. Maybe small shows, but it isn’t typically a driving force in their riding. They may ride once or twice a week. These are adults with significant other life responsibilities who may be in a position at some point to own or lease, but are not there now.

[CHT]

Old ranch horses are selling for high fours, low fives. Many to 4H homes…and honestly, they are often too darn sharp and they have shocking value even if not sound! Leadline sound horses are mid fours being bought by grandparents for their grandkids to ride in the summer.

The big lesson barn here has been smart and breeding her own lesson string and having advanced students train them up. Breeding for brains vs athletics. It is hard to find that now days.

[rulex]

@CHT

Breeding for brains vs athletics. It is hard to find that now days.

This is why the draft crosses went for big money at the Top Gun sale.

Used to be those types of horses were an inexpensive byproduct of the PMU industry.

[CHT]

Agree, the PMU barns did tend to have nice minded mares, regardless of breed, and produced useful equines at a bargain price.

[Libby2563]

@CHT

I can’t charge what I feel is reasonable if I am paying $10k for an aged horse.

I understand your conundrum and appreciate that you don’t want to potentially price your students out of lessons. However, if the price/value of lesson horses has increased, you may need to raise your lesson prices. It’s possible that your idea of what’s “reasonable” (for lesson prices or lesson horses, for that matter) is out of touch with today’s market. Everything has gotten more expensive in the past few years. I ship in for lessons at two different farms, and at both the arena use fee and the lesson cost have increased since 2019. I don’t like it, but I understand. It wouldn’t be sustainable for you to operate your business at a loss because your inputs have gotten more expensive and you don’t want raise your prices.

[CHT]

My lessons have increased, but the risk of paying $10k on an older horse, that may have 2 years left, or may have 10, is quite a gamble. Leasing is ideal…I miss the days when people leased out their “not show suitable, but not ready to retire” horses for lessons so as to maintain ownership, but now I think people want to reduce their liability and just get the horse sold.

I think I am just ranting.

I am one of those old “back in my day” people who misses the random backyard bred, heart of gold horses. If you could see my 20 year old lesson horse you would probably think his breeder should be shot…but man he has been a good horse.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

As a non-owner currently priced out of the hobby, I completely empathize with you, as someone at the other end of the spectrum. The best lessons I recently took were on 25+ year-old horses, and I still learned a great deal, even though they had some significant limitations, physically.

But I don’t blame trainers for not having school horses, because I agree with you, I just don’t see the types of steady, reliable packers for sale that used to make up the core of most lesson programs who could give a student a decent ride if the student asked correctly. Most h/j barns in my area have two horses for lessons (usually a pony and a near-retired horse) used for intro w/t lessons, and then the rider is expected to move onto a half-lease, then ownership/full lease.

I mean, there are lesson barns who will use Standardbreds who haven’t been reschooled to canter under saddle…for cantering lessons where the student is just told to expect to canter a few steps, and thirty-five year-old ponies, horses that are always “hitchy,” and horses who are too green and hot to canter or jump, but are theoretically quiet enough at the walk and trot for a beginner, but for programs where there at least is some intention to have the student progress and learn from week to week rather than just stay on for the hour, the pickings can be slim.

[Alterration]

@CHT

I am one of those old “back in my day” people who misses the random backyard bred, heart of gold horses. If you could see my 20 year old lesson horse you would probably think his breeder should be shot…but man he has been a good horse.

I have noticed that those horses are fewer and farther between. Not sure where you’re located, but they can still be found in the midwest, you just might have to do a lot of filtration. Gaited horses (that may or may not actually gait) also seem to be a bit cheaper (you sent me shopping :D). One of the best field hunters I ever rode was a standie.

I just don’t think people are making them like they used to. The horses get ridden less and fed more. As land disappears more is done in the arena and less out in the open. And seemingly gone are the teens that were happy to ride anything they could get their leg over. I’ve only seen one in the last few years, and I know my barn would have been swarming with them 20 years ago. It’s weird.

[fivestrideline]

@Alterration

And seemingly gone are the teens that were happy to ride anything they could get their leg over. I’ve only seen one in the last few years, and I know my barn would have been swarming with them 20 years ago. It’s weird.

I was one of those. Many reasons, including Safe Sport would prevent me and my peers from riding at all ‘like we used to’. I’m not here to start that discussion again - I’m just saying, the obstacles to kids riding anything and everything have increased. Time (gotta be ‘well rounded’ for college), safety, increased homework demand, increased costs and driving distance mean parents are cracking the whip to get in and out of the barn. It’s not the kids’ fault.

I do think the lack of early- mid teens safe horses is partly due to the ‘08 crash, so breeders stopped or cut back. There’s a gap where we just… don’t have the horse inventory. Now everyone who would’ve paid good money a 10-15 YO packer is forced to buy the 15-20 YO version, because the rest is much younger. Prices soar, lesson programs are forced to compete for the horses that would’ve been free leases in the past, or make their own from green, young animals.

[Texarkana]

OP what part of the country are you in?

[CHT]

Central Alberta, Canada.

[Alterration]

@fivestrideline

I was one of those. Many reasons, including Safe Sport would prevent me and my peers from riding at all ‘like we used to’. I’m not here to start that discussion again - I’m just saying, the obstacles to kids riding anything and everything have increased. Time (gotta be ‘well rounded’ for college), safety, increased homework demand, increased costs and driving distance mean parents are cracking the whip to get in and out of the barn. It’s not the kids’ fault.

Oh I hope I didn’t imply that it was. It’s just strange to not have them around!

[fivestrideline]

You didn’t. I just tend to see the discussion go that way so I wanted to get in front of it. Maybe I’m a bit defensive of “the kids” since media tends to blame them for surviving in the world we adults created.