Funny Cide was 3rd.
Soup- I honestly don’t know how to respond to either the earlier post or the reply to Jag’s… But honestly I think Jag’s point completely went over your head, by your reply.
Retraining and rehabbing Off Track TB’s.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SERAPH: Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once…
I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness.
Soup FTS writes; My apologies to all for my being so peevish earlier…to explain part of my attitude of late was in response to some private messages from other posters & to such remarks as the quote above. There is crookedness in all sports. However a lot of hard and honest working people pour their lives into their sport. I was asking in essence, if someone does not understand racing could they sit back and enjoy as a fan w/out casting dark accusations in areas in which they are unfamiliar. When I explained bits of terminology such as checking(“slang” I think someone angrily said) I was only trying to clear misunderstandings. I will try not to be so cranky in the future or at least not let it show (not making excuses but the day starts at 3:45 a.m…NO ONE should have to get up before the clock has at least a 5 out front! 
) and I hope the competition goes out of the posts and back onto the track where the fun is. How 'bout those Devils & Ducks…is anyone watching the Stanley Cup??
J
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.
I wonder if FC’s connections wonder if a mile and a half or so at a 2 minute clip might have been preferable to his blazing work in preparation for this trip…but then would this have even been possible considering the horse’s temperment? AND, in retrospect, does anyone else wish Santos had let FC run a little freer instead of strangling him on the front end…it would have taken more out of ER and maybe less out of FC than the constant restraint? Just back seat driving here…enjoying the debate!!!
I’ve been meaning to compliment Two Toofs on his/her post a page or two ago.
And Soup, it appears that you and DMK posted at the same time. I am in hopes that you will read her post and rethink your post?
“B***h in training”
Fairview Horse Center said: “I can’t help but wonder why you would change the way a horse runs in the Belmont. I have seen the same thing MANY times over the years. Horse is a middle of the pack, come from behind winner. Wins the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. In the Belmont (the LONGEST race) they send him to the front where he tires himself out. I began to notice this as a kid in the 60’s. Made me very discouraged with racing as it looked fixed to me as a 10 - 12 year old.”
Seraph said :"[I]Fairview Horse Center–I second your opinion and agree with you whole-heartedly.
I believe that Funny Cide could have won this race, regardless of how fit EM or TMW looked. He did not look unhappy, unwell, unsound at all. I saw the same fire in his eyes that he always has. I did not see the same fire in anyone else’s eyes. IMHO, Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once…
I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness.[/I]"
Fairview and Seraph,
I am not sure which horse you’re talking about, but it certainly isn’t Funny Cide. Funny Cide is anything but a come from behind horse. He is rarely on the lead early, but he always stays close to the pace. In the Derby, he was never more than 2 1/2 lengths off the leader, and in the Preakness, he spent most of his time a length off. He was only ,more than that at the first call, and then it was only by 3. Hardly a “middle of the pack” horse.
The Belmont was an unusual race, in that there were only 6 horses entered. The fewer horses that run, the harder your racing strategy is. If you try and hang behind, then you have to let someone else dictate the pace, possibly making you hold your horse too hard, and setting up for a true late runner. If you have a horse like Funny Cide, who prefers to run with the pace, then your best bet is to take the lead, and try and control the pace yourself.
I do think that Santos misjudged the pace a little, though. The fractions were very slow, and rather than pick it up a little, he fought Funny Cide to keep them that way. He may have done better to let him out a little so that Funny Cide would relax more. As it was, the pace was slow enough to set up perfectly for Empire Maker and Ten Most Wanted, because they were fresher than he was. Santos never asked Funny Cide to run until Empire Maker was at his throatlatch, much less sent him under great urging from the gate.
I doubt that anything would have helped yesterday though. Funny Cide seemed to take his last breeze very well, but he was switching leads oddly even then. Then he also switched too many times in the Belmont for something not to be wrong. Either the schedule took too much out of him, or maybe he’s developing a small problem, who knows? But I don’t think that he was up to the Belmont yesterday, that’s all. Doesn’t take a darn think away from what he’s done, or will do in the future, but he certainly wasn’t robbed.
~ Stephanie
If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t a lot more people happy?
Re: Funny Cide to the front… Skybeauty wrote a great description of the hows and whys. It would have been different if Funny Cide were a traditional closer and they tried to take him right to the front, but he sits right there at the pace normally, and for all the reasons she stated, as well as the fact that on a track like that, getting slammed in the face with the slop can also be a factor, I really don’t think it was a poor decision. It just wasn’t his day. I didn’t notice anything behind, I probably wasn’t paying close enough attention, but I really didn’t care for the way he was looking up front when he was walking. I really felt the whole day that he could do it until I saw them bringing him to the paddock (that, and the slop - a track like that changes all the rules).
AND…
with a loud whoosh going by “over head”
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
Fairview:
It’s been said on this post about 30 times 
Funny Cide was trying to bolt, and Santos was having a time holding him. Hope that helps.
.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>t’s hard to sit there and analyze the race and the way it was run without being an expert and avid follower, not just someone who started following the sport a few months ago. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If you don’t understand the training of a race horse it is a shame you can’t just sit back and enjoy it as a fan.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yah know, no one else will probably say this specificially, so flame away, but these are the types of comments that are really getting tiresome in this forum. They are completely self-righteous and absolutely uncalled for statements. If they aren’t meant to come out that what, perhaps sitting back and putting a little more thought in before putting the keyboard to work might be of some benefit.
I personally like it when people take an interest in my sport, whether they completely understand it or haven’t a clue, or make legitimate observations without necessarily using the proper “slang” (i.e., checked vs. rated) and to take a holier than thou attitude like what is seen here so often has got to put a bad taste in people’s mouths. Not everyone has been around the track or racing for decades (and some people who seem to think they have but haven’t even been alive that long) but it doesn’t mean they can’t make legitimate observations or have legitimate opinions about the sport. One thing that, unfortunately, some people never learn about racing no matter how long they’ve been around a backside is that nothing is set in stone.
Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)
<<On a side note, I hope Santos’ son is ok. It’s so neat how much he looks up to his dad. Maybe this will be a good learning experience for him, learning that winning isn’t everything.>>
Poor kid! My Anna (7) didn’t stop sobbing for a good 10 minutes, first 'cause Funny Cide lost, then because Jose Jr. was crying! The only way I got Anna to stop was to promise her I’d try to take her to SEE Funny Cide at Belmont…(Anyone know if it’s possible to get in to watch morning workouts?)
Looked like it would be a pretty good race for awhile–I noticed that Santos was braced hard and holding for the first part of the race while Bailey was sitting easy; wonder what would have happened if Santos had just let go a lot earlier?
MCL
‘r’ H/J/HEq
I’m curious. This question/observation goes to those with some racing knowledge. Wasn’t it unusual for FC to change his leads so many times? I counted ten lead swaps.
I would think that much lead changing is indicitive of something negative.
Fairview Horse Center–I second your opinion and agree with you whole-heartedly.
I believe that Funny Cide could have won this race, regardless of how fit EM or TMW looked. He did not look unhappy, unwell, unsound at all. I saw the same fire in his eyes that he always has. I did not see the same fire in anyone else’s eyes. IMHO, Funny Cide was robbed of his hard-fought triple crown victory and America was robbed of a hero. In other words, I believe the jockey sent him from the gate with great urging and I did not see him check him once…
I personally will not watch another tc race as I am sick to my very heart at such crookedness.
“The world needs Dreamers and the world needs Doers;
But above all, the world needs Dreamer’s who Do.”
Valkryie Warrior Woman-- Proud Member of the Thread Killers Clique!!!
I was in Sackets Harbor NY last night watching the race. Probably about 2000 people watching big screen TVs. At first whole crowd was just yelling and screaming - go Funny Cide go - but than when it got more clear that he was passed by and ended up the crowd got quieter. At the end we were all bummed out. It was fun though. I also got to meet one of the owner I believe he comes into the place I work at all the time. Started with that he had a hat on it said Saratoga Racetrack or something and we started talking. That’s when he told me about Funny Cide. I haven’t seen him since but I’m sure he’ll be in soon again and I will shake his hand and congratiolate him. It’s still great how Funny Cide ran.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SERAPH:
Soup from the Store—I appologize to Santos and his trainer and entourage if I falsely accused; I am by no means an expert on horse racing but I do know quite a bit about riding jumpers and event horses. I do know something about rating a horse.
However, after looking at other reasonable posts by other people (one MUST understand how incredibly disappointed I was at Funny Cide’s race) I am willing to say perhaps I was hasty in my assertations. Afterall, though I’ve had horses off the track and have galloped them out, I’ve never raced. Therefore, perhaps I do not fully understand the power of the race horse and how he can haul you, no matter what (and especially in the precarious position of the jockey) to where he wants to go!
I still feel that had Funny Cide been controlable as in the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness he would have won…he had more heart than any other horse out there, IMHO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Seraph, I think what people are trying to say is not that FC was totally unrateable, it’s the “how” he rated that made the difference. Racehorses are no different than performance horses. The quality of step determines the outcome.
For instance, if you have a line that rides a tight 4, you know the horse that calmly collects, balances and doesn’t fight his rider will ride the 4 much better than the horse who puts in the 4 with a fight. Sure, technically both jumpers laid down the 4 that was asked of them, but the one that is a partner with the rider stands the better chance of going clear and not tiring himself out. Nobody gets around all the time, everytime with a horse that fights them, even if the horse ultimately listens. And they can be on the greatest horse in the world, and that horse may just not be a player that day.
FC basically rode like the latter horse. He DID rate, in that his trainer said he was happy with the fractions Santos got out of him (they weren’t too fast or too slow). It’s how he fought Santos most of the first 6 furlongs that physically cost the horse the rest of the race, not the actual time he ran in. That is no different than any other sport, and its just a reflection on the character of the horse in that race, not the potential crookedness of his connections.
Besides, if that doesn’t make sense, consider how quick the industry was to leap all over Santos for a quirky photo, yet not a peep about the favorite losing the Belmont. And I promise you that the one thing the racing industry takes more seriously than cheating to win is cheating to make a favorite lose. Strictly death penalty stuff.
An FYI to all those that thought that taking the lead was a bad strategy. Who knows if it was the right strategy for FC or not, but in the recent history of the Triple Crown there are 3 horses that are quite notable for taking the lead out of the gate and not relinquishing it for any amount of time: Secretariat, Slew and Affirmed. So it’s not always a bad strategy…
bh1 - are you SURE you wouldn’t charge me one signed photo as payment for housesitting? 
Soup, I can promise you that when I was younger, I thought myself quite smart. Most others thought me too smart for my own good. And I’m sure there are plenty others on the BB who think the same still applies. 
Call your village. Their idiot is missing…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
Makes you wonder why so-competitive F-C wears a Figure-8 noseband<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most likely he wears the figure-8 to keep from flipping his soft palate.
J
Licensed Fjord Jockey and collector of bobbleheads.
lilienhof, How cool that you got to watch the race with an owner!
Let’s not forget that some of the greatest race horses of all time only won 2 of 3 races of the triple crown. Man O War wasn’t even entered in the Derby but did anyone notice in the prerace discussion when they were showing states that he won the Belmost with a 20 length margin…the 3rd greatest ever? Cool… I can’t remember which race Man O War won with a 100 length margin but it was a big one in his 3 year old year against top colts. Anyway, I digress… I don’t think you can write off Funny Cide as a “not great” horse from this race. I can’t forget how he walked away with the Preakness…
What I think is unfortunate is that Funny Cide is the end of the road. No offspring to carry on for him.
“No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle…” Winston Churchill
I was just reading thru this thread, and I’d like to say that I think it’s wonderful for the sport that so many people are intrigued by Funny Cide. I live just a bit north of Saratoga Springs, and I sincerely hope that Funny Cide and Empire Maker will meet again in the Travers Stakes. Funny Cide Fever is rampant here!
The post in this thread that best expresses what I understood to be the case about the Belmont is this one, which I believe was by “lifesabreeze” :
posted Jun. 08, 2003 11:26 PM
Funny Cide is rank and doesn’t rate well. His connections would have preferred if ANY horse would have gone for the lead so FC could sit off the pace. Everybody else could keep their horses slower than FC, so he ended up on the front end.
FC wouldn’t cooperate enough even for Santos to be able to hold Empire Maker inside of him. Bailey/EM sees Santos can’t slow down,so he slows just enough to “switch lanes” and put EM outside and just a little behind FC. This moves FC down into the deeper water and forces him to feel pressured. Bailey said he knew he had FC beat when they entered the backstretch because of how rank FC was acting.
Santos said FC was acting like he didn’t like the slop. He said he was climbing early in the race. Climbing is when a horse picks his head and front feet up too high,sometimes switching leads back and forth. They usually climb if water splashes their belly or they don’t like dirt in their face. Climbing would make a rank horse even more difficult to control.
I hope this explains why FC was on the lead. The trainer nor the rider could have prevented it.
I didn’t just watch the race, I also watched the coverage afterwards, and Jose Santos said FC was not really handling the track, as well as being rank.
Something else that I recall, was what Robin Smullen said about FC after that fast work on the Tuesday before the race. She said that if she had tried to hold FC back, he just would have run faster. You could see that Santos was trying to hold FC at the beginning of the race, but FC was fighting him.
And “Soup from the Store” - remember that tones of voice can not be heard on message boards - when I first read your post re: FC not being in the same class as some of the past great horses, it was not clear to me that you only meant as TC winners. It really did sound as tho you were knocking FC and being a bit snotty.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Two Toofs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freebird:
I hate to start a flame war here, but I am getting rather sick of the “know it all attitude” from some (not naming any name…). I think that ALL posters on this racing forum should be made to feel welcome, and to not have to be afraid to post there comments, thoughts and questions, no matter how absurd others on here may think they are. How else could we all learn? I applaud those who want to learn more about racing, that is what we NEED most - to educate the public on racing, and it’s good points.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
>>>>>insert hearty applause smiley thing here<<<<<<
Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
FC is a class horse - he proved it - with his speed, heart and determination. He didn’t win yesterday, but he didn’t lose.
do ya think a horse in front of him may have slowed him down without fighting his rider?
Darlyn
http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com
Are We Having Fun Yet?
Beat me to it. 
I knew it wasnt his race because he was up front early, not his style
I’m not crazy I’m just a little unwell…
It is all just fun. All the pomp and dreaming we get to be part of.
IMHO it seems FC has learned that he can run like a deamon, but now needs to learn how to rate and release the power as needed.
For me I am glad to have a horse I can follow beyond his three year old races again.
My only disappointment, and I feel this every year, is that we have to listen to Sinatra belch croon and look for the proper key of “New York, New York” instead of the local choir singing “Sidewalks of New York”.
Sinatra brings tears to my eyes but not the same kind that come when they sing, “My Old Kentucky Home.”
_\]
– * > hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sprite:
being in the same league as Sunday Silence, Northern Dancer, and Silver Charm ain’t all bad <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I think it’s safe to say that he won’t be in Northern Dancer’s league anytime soon, but I hear War Emblem calls Funny Cide his role model!
Call your village. Their idiot is missing…
