BEMER for stifle injury? What about pelvis injury?

[outerbanks77]

I have one of the 100x Equine lasers. The vet/chiro I was working with said yes, it’s effective, it just takes longer than her $xx,xxx laser. One advantage of a spot device is that the horse can show you where they might be sore - some spots they won’t react and other places it clearly feels good. I think in the 100x literature they say the laser goes about 2 inches. I generally keep it on each spot for 30 seconds, sometimes longer if the horse is having a particular response, and see licking/chewing/yawning releases from it. It is easy to chew up 30-60 minutes using the laser on my mare when she’s really responding to it, so it’s not a very time-efficient treatment for whole-body use.

But also really appreciating this thread as I’m hoping to buy a Bemer this year (and offset the cost by treating other horses in the barn).

[BroncoMo]

@Feathered_Feet

Even if it doesn’t hit the injury itself (depending on depth), it can only help the surrounding tissue.

That’s what I’m thinking it certainly wouldn’t hit the break for the pelvis mare but may help the superficial muscles in the area. I can see where joints close to the surface could benefit. Maybe the stifle, maybe the KS. Maybe lower leg joints. I do have one horse who LOVES having his neck lasered. He’ll turn around so you laser his preferred side for even longer. So I assume it has some type of tangible benefit.

My parents swear by their red light devices. My mom used to live on obscene amounts of ibuprofen and is down to a very minimal dose for various knee, back, and shoulder injuries and issues. I do think there’s some benefit but I agree it’s not the most convenient therapy method.

[NaturallyHappy]

My sister has a people bemer. She swears it saved her from knee surgery and is mobile again.

[Cowgirl]

The Bemer is PEMF (pulsed electro magetic frequency waves) the light/laser device are infrared light (and other types of light waves). They are totally different modalities. The beauty of the Bemer is that you can use it on large areas; the beauty of a laser is that you can focus on spots (and your horse will react). I do believe that they both target increased circulation to aid the healing process. Scientifically, I do not know which is better. Anecdotally, I use the laser on spot areas and the Bemer is good for me for overall health. Both have to be used frequently to be effective, which is why I bought rather than having a practitioner out all the time.

20 years ago (maybe a bit less) when light therapy was emerging more for horses, I had something called a Light Force. It is very similar to those devices that have multiple small red lights on it, but was a hand held device. I could actually strap it on lower legs with elastic straps. It is not the same as a laser. It didn’t seem to help that much. It was more in the class of magnet wraps. It did not compare with the laser I bought.

And with some lasers, you can get different lenses to really focus on points. If you are really good at horse anatomy, you get to understand where the points are. I have a 3 year old with a sore back coming back from colt starting and what is really helping is to laser the target areas first and then Bemer after. Lasers do really help with wound healing.

A laser will definitely help a suspensory injury. My older mare has a ddft injury in her left pastern a few years ago after slipping in mud. When we treated it (with ultrasound guided prostride injected into the tendon), I incorrectly thought we were treating the back outside of her pastern and treated that with the laser. On her followup ultrasound, the vet saw that it was healed on that side, but still injured on the other side!!! I lasered both sides and at the next followup, she was healed on both sides.

[IPEsq]

This is how my vets explained it to me (I got a laser similar to the 100x one, before theirs was released). It just takes longer especially if you are trying to go a bit deeper into the tissue. Up side is that you are not likely to burn the horse by holding the device on there for longer compared to a higher powered laser.

I find that for meatier areas of the horse, it’s good for stimulating some of the acupuncture points. I had a horse bodyworker that was doing this back in the 90s with a red light device. For lower limb stuff, there isn’t as much tissue to go through and so as long as you aren’t trying to penetrate the hoof capsule or something, I think a 3B laser works fine.

[BroncoMo]

@Cowgirl

The Bemer is PEMF (pulsed electro magetic frequency waves) the light/laser device are infrared light

Yes I’m aware of this much as dumb as I am with electricity (and therefor pulsing), I’m even more dumb with light/wave lengths/etc. So trying to get a very basic grasp on the difference between “red light therapy” and “lasers”.

@Cowgirl

And with some lasers, you can get different lenses to really focus on points. If you are really good at horse anatomy, you get to understand where the points are. I have a 3 year old with a sore back coming back from colt starting and what is really helping is to laser the target areas first and then Bemer after. Lasers do really help with wound healing.

I have been casually looking in to Masterson method and releases via Meridian points (I’m sure I’m using the verbiage wrong). It would be interesting if you can sort of combine the two. Using the laser on those various spots.

@Cowgirl

A laser will definitely help a suspensory injury. My older mare has a ddft injury in her left pastern a few years ago after slipping in mud. When we treated it (with ultrasound guided prostride injected into the tendon), I incorrectly thought we were treating the back outside of her pastern and treated that with the laser. On her followup ultrasound, the vet saw that it was healed on that side, but still injured on the other side!!! I lasered both sides and at the next followup, she was healed on both sides.

This is pretty cool. I had a mare with a catastrophic case of cellulitis a few years back, and without getting in to all the details of that dumpster fire, I will say the little bit of lasering (as well as pulsing) we did on the resultant wound made a huge difference.

[outerbanks77]

@BroncoMo

I have been casually looking in to Masterson method and releases via Meridian points (I’m sure I’m using the verbiage wrong). It would be interesting if you can sort of combine the two. Using the laser on those various spots.

You totally can. Masterson doesn’t use points so much as meridians (lines), where you stop at a location where the horse responds, and then move on after he releases tension. That’s pretty much how I use the laser, which is faster than just the bare hand Masterson approach. There are a couple acupressure point I know about as well where I’ll use the laser in a targeted way. I’m sure you could use the laser along with other Masterson methods like the shoulder release, neck stretches and so on.

[BroncoMo]

I knew I used the verbiage wrong certainly lots more to learn about it.

[outerbanks77]

@BroncoMo

I knew I used the verbiage wrong certainly lots more to learn about it.

If you get a chance to attend one of the weekend workshops I highly recommend it!

[Guyot]

I just bought a laser blanket for my horses. Pricing on lasers have come down quite a bit in the last year or so.

I’ve treated 6 different horses and all so far have benefited. The most improved are horses with old injuries or surgery.

Specifically my mare who had spay surgery just shy of 2 years ago. Wow what a difference for her. Extremely more relaxed all day and much more available under saddle… to the point of (if used prior to ride) be super careful here you could violate her and make her much more sore. I’ve found treatment after workout and the day before her days off to be better applications.

Also a clients horse who is doing the GP and has some old compensatory issues from an accident when he was a foal. He could literally live in this blanket… I think his facia was so tight you can almost hear him say thank you. It’s literally shocking how well this works on him. He is very emotive and would probably go to work with a broken leg so we work very very hard to keep him as comfortable as possible. (He also gets weekly magnawave treatmemts)

The other horses I’ve treated it’s all been for management of well being so for them it’s been more where each of them are weakest in their bodies. So one tends to get little sore in low back he finds most benefit to do the back. Another gets sore/tired in the thoracic sling and neck so I do longer up there.

Buying the blanket just made it easier to get the horse done in a more useful time frame.

I’ve always loved the laser as for me it’s the best modality for my body. I went from taking Advil and robaxin regularly (almost daily) to doing about an hour per day of laser and I feel much better doing the laser then the drugs.

The blanket was expensive but bought it thru Amazon so I knew I could return no question in 30 days if I didn’t like it. I bought the Thermotex for about 2500$ the neck was more at 500$ but after spending a week with the blanket I didn’t hesitate to buy the neck. Laser is 660-880nm which is shown with research to have the best results for going about 2” deep.

My personal hand held is 660-980nm with pulsing so I can still do joints or super sore spots. I bought it for just a few hundred $ but I use it on myself and my husband daily so it’s more then paid for itself in savings not buying meds…

[Guyot]

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Trying to get videos to work soooo hope they come thru…
First video (I think ) is beginning of session for my girl. Second where she looks super relaxed and head lowered was at end of session. And this is a horse who always has her head up and super alert. Lots of commotion in the barn as it was bringing in and feeding time.

[beau159]

@BroncoMo

I’ve long entertained a PEMF machine for personal use as well as side hustle gig. Problem is 1) the cost (I have other equipment to pay off before entertaining another expensive toy), and 2) my lack of time to do 30+ minute sessions on multiple personal horses. So I’ve been entertaining a BEMER.

Thoughts considering my particular dumpster fires?

Now obviously you are considering the Bemer but I just want to throw out another option for you in case you didn’t know about it. Of course, disregard my post if you have your heart set on Bemer.

I looked at a lot of different systems and companies when I bought my stuff, and I ultimately chose to go with Respond Systems and I pretty much bought everything they had. Battery lasts at least 8 sessions, and I usually do 30 min sessions, but of course you can treat for any length of time that you have. You can treat from 5 to 60 Hz but I usually use the “scan” function which will cycle through them all during the 30 minutes.

I chose this system over Bemer because I could treat the entire body at once without standing there holding coils and without having to jimmy-rig boots to get awkward places, like the stifle.The blanket has a stifle attachment right on it, which you can see hanging on the inside. I liked that I could treat everything at once.

Here’s my model “Red” in the getup. (I usually throw on the BOT quick wraps on back which keep the hock boots up if he were to move around, but he usually doesn’t). Only takes me a few minutes to put everything on. No matter which system you chose to purchase, you will LOVE being able to treat your horses daily at home! PEMF does work the best when done on a regular basis.

[Cowgirl]

I used Masterson method with this same horse when she was competing. I hired a practitioner to come on a regular basis (it might have been weekly or every other week) and mostly work on her poll, jaw and neck because she would resist coming through there. It took a really long time to effect dramatic change (like a year), so it was a total act of faith (but I still have videos of her dramatic releases when the practitioner would work on her). When it did finally effect change, it was really dramatic how soft my horse became and how easy to get through she was after that. I highly recommend it, but you have to commit.

I have a friend who uses a 3b laser on accupressure points. She is really good at it and you can see the horse release as she works on it. It’s really cool to see.

[SpicyPRE]

@Guyot

My personal hand held is 660-980nm with pulsing so I can still do joints or super sore spots. I bought it for just a few hundred $ b

I am curious as to more details on your laser.
THX

[FjordBCRF]

I keep tossing around investing in something like Bemer or Mangna Wave. I’ve got a host of chronic issues myself, and we are dealing with some soft issue issues this week.

Here’s our current DIY set up PEMF one side and red light therapy on the other. We just switch sides at the 20 min mark. It seems to be helping though, and I did the IR on my neck/shoulders yesterday (first day it arrived) and I felt pretty good afterwards.

[Cowgirl]

The Terraquant TQ Solo is superpulsed and, while it is a 3b, it releases short bursts of class 4 laser power, which (supposedly) makes it more effective than the regular 3b and without the potential detriments of a class 4. At least that’s the claim. I’ve seen a lot of variety on strength and pulse wave.

[Cowgirl]

One more thing I do want to share is that Bemer on the neck after biannual shots seems to prevent neck soreness and swellings. This is how I first started to use my Bemer leg cuffs on the neck. One of my horses always gets a bump and that one and another one always get a sore and stiff neck. Not so since I have (1) preloaded with Hydroxazine and (2) used the Bemer on the neck after vaccinations.

[BroncoMo]

This thread has been so enlightening. More so than I thought considering I’m essentially looking for the support of a bunch of enablers Aside from personal use, I’ve toyed around with doing some type of alternative therapy gig as a second career when the Army decides they’re done with me. Yall have provided some really good ideas to consider.

[FjordBCRF]

Has anyone had experience with the OMI PEMF horse products? This set is currently half the starting price of just the BEMER blanket. From their site “OMI Equine products generate low-intensity PEMF therapy, which has been shown to be more effective at healing and much safer for the health of your horse than high-intensity PEMF therapy devices produced by companies like MagnaWave and BEMER. OMI PEMF products also cost a small fraction of what MagnaWave and BEMER charge for their devices.”

OMI PEMF Full Equine Package: Blanket, Shoulder Band, Neck Wrap, Rear Leg...

Im having a friend out tonight that does BEMER to see if the Fjord has any thoughts about it; he REALLY liked the MagnaWave but boy are those pricey to start. But, Ive been really happy with the poor mans PEMF/IR therapy Ive been doing on his neck so that’s promising.

[knic]

What they don’t make clear is the OMI has to be plugged in while it is on the horse.