I think you must have me confused with someone else, Davignport.
I’m not a victim shamer. Not on other threads and not on this one.
The alleged victim has made very serious allegations and the Ebelings have denied them. I have no personal, direct knowledge of where the truth lies. I think the Ebelings should be considered innocent until proven guilty, or liable, or sanctioned.
The alleged victim was right to come forward. It is understandable that she delayed coming forward, and there is nothing morally wrong with the delay.
As a purely practical matter, though, a delay of several years means that whatever forensic evidence existed, especially evidence of date rape drugs in her system, is just gone.
Of the various “trials” that can be brought to bear on the accused— criminal trial, SS investigation, civil trial, trial by SM — I have pointed out that the first two have so far declined to issue criminal charges or a SS sanction. To me, that suggests that either it didn’t happen the way the civil suit alleges, or the evidence is not there to prove that it happened. In either case, innocent until proven guilty still applies.
The alleged victim has the right to file a civil suit. While civil suits are often settled, in this case the reputational consequences are probably more important than the financial ones for the Ebelings, so perhaps there will be a trial.
It appears Ben and his parents have already been convicted in the court of SM. That’s what I object to.
That’s a fair point. Given his past roles, I can understand many people thinking of him as though he is still speaking as a part of USEF leadership. But… that’s probably not quite accurate at the present date.
There are several people who have engaged with him in a diplomatic and thoughtful way on his Facebook page. Maybe it will give him some food for thought.
I think you may be wrong. Given she was carried back unconscious and given her parents were all sorts of upset at that time it’s entirely possible her parents brought her to a hospital where blood may have been taken and even possibly a rape kit done.
You just can’t assume there are no forensics.
Were it my kid you betcha the hospital would have been the first stop after after leaving the farm that day.
Criminal charges in cases like this are VERY VERY challenging. Especially if the victim isn’t taken to a qualified professional for an exam within hours of the crime. That’s just the way it is… the burden of proof for criminal prosecution is very high.
Many girls and women do not pursue an exam by a qualified professional in the hours immediately following an assault because they are traumatized, or in shock, or having considerable mental and emotional challenges processing what has happened, and all associated implications. This especially applies when an assailant is someone close to the victim - a close friend, intimate partner, family member, or trusted authority figure such as a teacher, coach, priest, etc.
Just thought I would put that out there regarding the reality of assaults when it comes to situations where the assailant and victim had a pre-existing connection, and criminal prosecution.
Personally, the only thing I read into the lack of criminal charges in this matter is that they did not feel they could meet the burden of proof in a court of law. And that is very common. And just a sad reality. I don’t infer anything about anyone’s guilt or innocence from it. It’s simply the nature of these situations. And as you said, the American system is one of innocent until proven guilty. And frankly… I support and believe in our system. But… I’m still very very sad for girls and women who go through these experiences. It’s very very hard.
As far as a SS investigation and sanction go, the only thing we know is that BE has not been sanctioned at this time. We do not know if SS is allowing the civil process to take precedence before leveling sanctions. That is not out of the realm of possibility though. Soooo… I for one will reserve judgement on that.
Frankly, when there is a parallel investigation taking place in our legal system because of a civil suit… I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing for SS to sit back and let that play out first before ruling. Yes… it will be very slow. But, there certainly will be robust protections when it comes to the rights of the accused, and ample opportunity for them to present a defense. And if the plaintiff can prevail when making a case in civil court… then it makes a subsequent SS sanction a much less controversial matter.
As far as your statement about “trial by SM” … the Ebelings attorney chose to make a statement that can be fairly characterized as going on offense. The Acres Dressage also made a statement on social media that definitely is forward leaning, and a counter offensive to the accusations of the plaintiff in the civil matter. Soooo… people are now discussing the entire case on social media. That’s how these things work. If everyone involved had made ZERO in the way of public statements, or social media statements, perhaps I would be more inclined to see things your way. But… clearly some parties to the lawsuit are trying to make a case for their side in the court of public opinion.
As of yet, I haven’t seen any public statement from Jane Doe’s attorney, or a Facebook post attributed to Jane Doe laying out her accusations. All we know is that she has actually filed a civil suit. She’s pursuing her accusations in a court of law.
Soooo… frankly… I’m unconcerned about social media chatter. And more curious about how the civil suit plays out. I hope it is a thorough, fair and just process for everyone involved.
Seems all the ones making a lot of noise when these things come out eventually are seen to have their own demons in the closet. The pyramid starts to fall. Methinks RD doth protest too much
We just don’t know IF a medical exam was done or why charges weren’t pursued. It could be something that doesn’t even come to mind at first thought.
In the courts we came across victims who wouldn’t testify all the time. Often this was because of citizenship status. Undocumented people are terrified. And I’m not talking just your poster child came through the lower border folks. I’m talking the even greater number of people who came via a visa and overstayed with decades long established lives in the USA but who are no longer legally here.
The girl also would be exposed to fellow students at school. And while changing barns is a simple thing to do, perhaps changing schools or homes just wasn’t a possibility at that time.
So what I’m trying to say that there easily could have been forensics, the police did know, but if the witness was unwilling to testify or any other number of factors at play could have kept the case from going forward at that time including a D.A. or others who were friendly to certain parties.
Assault by someone close to you, who you previously trusted, while you are still a minor? It’s very very complicated. And sad. And complicated. And takes a long time to process.
Also, perhaps they had horses in board at The Acres, and it took time to find an alternative. And Jane wanted to continue to ride and see her horses in the aftermath. I could understand if that was the case as well.
But again… we don’t know what we don’t know. There are lots of hypothetical explanations for the situation laid out in the complaint.
Based on the perspective provide by the statement from the acres and having run in these general circles for years I can completely see why a victim and other witnesses may not jump forward. The acres goes on the offensive quite quickly and can really intimidate others.
I don’t see that it’s breaking rules to post your own personal opinions on your own personal Facebook page. I disagree with what he posted and think it’s a terrible look for anyone, particularly one so deeply involved with youth in the sport, but I don’t believe anything he said violated some rule.
Do we know she even reported the sexual assault to her parents at the time? I haven’t had the stomach to read the filing. If that had been the case, I would have expected a criminal investigation immediately.
To me it’s more likely the parents just thought she was drunk, and that was brushed off as “kids being kids” even though she was just 14. I remember a barn gathering in my youth where I had to confiscate liquor bottles from a group of 14 and 15 year olds who had stolen them from the trainer’s cabinet and were chugging them straight up.
In retrospect and as an adult / parent now I recognize that we should have just called their parents to pick them up, but hindsight is 20/20. I was only 18 or 19 myself at the time, and didn’t want the trainer to get in trouble for what the kids had done. Since the event was a sleepover anyway, we just held the kids’ heads over buckets all night and kept a very close eye on them.
So I can understand if the girls’ parents and the Ebelings didn’t immediately assume anything sinister had taken place, or that the girl had been forced to consume alcohol. She herself may not have realized or remembered immediately that she had been sexually assaulted.
I remember back in the older SS thread there were rules about not disparaging any victims who came forward. I believe the McDonald’s ‘personal opinion on [their] own personal Facebook page’ violated that rule and I believe RD’s continued personal opinions on his own personal Facebook page do, too, if I remember the wording of the rule correctly. I’ll go back and check.
I think RD’s statements thus far are completely out of line.
This is Carrie Kehring, Maggie Kehring’s mom. While I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of this situation, I think it’s important to put forth some information that I am now deeply familiar with after our experience with law enforcement and SafeSport and the many hours I have devoted to understanding this subject over the past 2 years.
False accusations are incredibly rare. Widely accepted research shows - In sexual assault cases - there is a 93% probability the victim is telling the truth. When there are multiple victims it rises to 99%.
The reason SafeSport and law enforcement’s hands are so frequently tied is that they have to treat sexual cases as they do others. Which means they need hard evidence to do anything. Sexual abuse/assault/grooming - doesn’t leave hard evidence. Because SafeSport follows the law enforcement process, we needed an utterly astounding amount of evidence to get anywhere with our case. A victim basically has to show in hard evidence proof of guilt before they can do anything. It’s why out of 100 rapes only 3 make it to a prosecutorial stage.
I also want to pipe in on any victim blaming or shaming. When my daughter came forward the onslaught of hate was stunning in it’s enormity. In addition to the ugly comments said on social media, she had adults in our sport contacting her through social media direct messages to tell her that she was lying. It was a tremendously harmful thing to have to deal with in the wake of everything else we were dealing with.
Thank you Carrie. I hope that Jane Doe has a good support system around her.
I’m absolutely appalled by the people in the equestrian community that are completely insensitive, and sometimes actually hateful, to people who come forward.
