Bench Made Saddle - What is a reasonable expectation?

[r.matey]

Here is the short version of my question for anyone who doesn’t want to read my novel below: I rode in a demo jump saddle that was a great fit for me and my horse, except for insufficient wither clearance. Is it reasonable to expect that the saddler could make one just like what I rode in but with appropriate wither clearance, in a way that would not change the balance of the saddle or how it fits me?

The long version:

I’m in the midst of another long, painful saddle search – looking to replace both my dressage and jumping saddles. I’m about ready to give up on the idea that I will ever find a dressage saddle that both of us like, but the jumping saddle feels possible.

I’m working with a local fitter who brought out a ton for us to try last week. My horse showed a very clear preference for one that I also quite liked, so we kept the demo to use in a jumping lesson. It went great, and the changes in my riding were pretty enlightening. (I’ve been in a too-small seat for the last many years – it’s a strange and wonderful feeling to be able to shift a hip back without an enormous struggle!) And then, heartbreak: At the very end of the ride my trainer asked about the wither clearance, which I hadn’t thought to check. And it is not good. While I was in the saddle I could only get my finger to the second knuckle between the saddle and his wither.

I reported this back to the saddle fitter, and their recommendation is to have the saddler make one just like it but with more wither clearance. The saddle is made by a saddler out of Walsall, England, and is a lesser-known brand (I hadn’t heard of them and haven’t found a ton of information online). I’m waiting to hear back what modifications exactly the saddler would make to get the extra clearance; the fitter said it would be through changing the panel shape rather than building on a different tree.

I can afford the saddle, but it is twice what I was planning to spend so would mean putting the dressage saddle on hold for now. The fitter has said that all custom saddles are final sale. I’m pretty nervous committing to buy a saddle I’ve never sat in that doesn’t have a fit guarantee, especially knowing it would likely be a hard resale if it didn’t work out (since it’s not a well-known brand). On the other hand, the demo is awesome for us, so I know the fit is really close, and the saddler does quality work.

Thoughts?

[GoForAGallop]

@r.matey;7843167

I reported this back to the saddle fitter, and their recommendation is to have the saddler make one just like it but with more wither clearance. The saddle is made by a saddler out of Walsall, England, and is a lesser-known brand (I hadn’t heard of them and haven’t found a ton of information online). I’m waiting to hear back what modifications exactly the saddler would make to get the extra clearance; the fitter said it would be through changing the panel shape rather than building on a different tree.

They’d likely just build the exact same saddle with a wither gusset, which will get you that extra wither clearance.

However, before committing to that, I’d probably want to find a saddle with wither gussets to demo (County or Black Country are easy to find at any of the used places with gussets) and sit on your horse’s back, to see if that will actually be the solution that works for him.

Mind sharing what brand it is?

[r.matey]

It’s an Adam Ellis – the specific model is the Chloe.

Thank you!

[jaybird660]

Adam Ellis does make a quality saddle although less well know. However, because saddles are handmade, there is no guarantee that it will feel exactly the same with more wither clearance. There is a standard that the saddle has to meet certain industry standards but even when we have ordered the exact saddle based on a serial number, there can be slight differences.

When a deeper front panel is added and or wither gussets it should help the balance and you should feel more centered. Sometimes, the addition of a deeper front panel will make the leg hand differently on the saddle and some people are fine with it and some not. I would recommend trying some saddles that have those options to see how they feel in the twist first and if that is still the saddle for you, then order the one you want with those options.

[r.matey]

[QUOTE=jaybird660;7844267]
When a deeper front panel is added and or wither gussets it should help the balance and you should feel more centered.[/QUOTE]

That gets to the heart of my concern/question – the saddle I rode in is beautifully balanced now and I feel really nicely centered, so my concern is a change to the panels would shift the balance. It is a great fit for him in every way (front to back, side to side, etc) except the wither clearance.

Is it possible to get wither clearance without altering the balance? I feel like I just don’t know enough about saddle construction to tell how amazing or everyday it would be for a saddle maker to pull that off.

[gnu]

as a test, you might try a shimmable pad with the rear 2/3’s shimmed. That should place the thicker part of the pad from just behind the tree points under the panels to/past the cantle. I tried that w/ success w/ a flocked saddle which the fitter liked, but I felt it had a bit too much pressure at the tree points.

[jaybird660]

If you are adding depth to the front half it would lift the saddle which would change the balance but that may be minimal enough to feel good or even better.

[alto]

You might chat with Pelham Saddlery to see what they have in stock

[Costa06]

PMed you!

[Paintbrlrcr]

What did you decide? I rode in a Chloe a couple weeks ago and loved it. I had my heart set on a Devoucoux Chiberta but my horse is a TB with big dips behind the withers and I worry about fit even with a custom saddle. I’m also a tad nervous about not buying a monoflap since that’s what everyone rides in - but at the same time I feel like if I like the saddle and the horse is comfortable - doesn’t matter what everyone else is doing. I’ve been riding at Novice - moving up to Training in the spring and hope to get to Prelim. My other minor concern is the security of the saddle at that level since I was only able to hop over a couple small fences during my test ride.

[r.matey]

I’m still undecided… My fitter came out on Saturday to take tracings, and also brought back out a Thornhill Germania Spring for me to try in a jumping lesson (which is scheduled for tonight). When we were doing demos a couple weeks ago I rode in the Spring first and liked it – then rode in the Chloe and LOVED it, so that was the one I kept to try over fences. I want to go with my horse’s preference (the Chloe), but the Spring is half the price and I would be able to keep the one I actually ride in, so I want to give it a fair shake. A custom saddle just feels like such a huge gamble, especially after all the horror stories I’ve read on these forums!

Adam looked at photos of my horse and said he would likely build my Chloe on the TB version of the tree. Final determination would be after seeing the tracings, which my fitter isn’t sending to him until after I ride in the Spring.

We’re schooling Novice right now, and the highest we jumped in the Chloe was 2’11". I felt SO balanced in it, and the improvement it made in my riding over my old saddle had me totally sold on it until we discovered the wither issue.

I don’t have Training or Prelim experience, so I’m hoping someone else can weigh in on the general question of security as you move up the levels. The Chloe does have the rear block which I’ve read can come into play more for any “oh $@*#” moments when banks get bigger. Sadly we won’t get a chance to school any cross-country until next spring as we’re already under snow here – and I will be a very, very unhappy person if I’m still saddle shopping at that point!

[Bogie]

Is there any way to get the demo model reflocked to fit your horse better? I agree that there is some risk involved in having a new saddle made . . . might be better to work with the one in front of you.

[r.matey]

[QUOTE=Bogie;7863558]
Is there any way to get the demo model reflocked to fit your horse better? I agree that there is some risk involved in having a new saddle made . . . might be better to work with the one in front of you.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately not. I’m working with an independent fitter who does reflocking. Both she and the saddle maker recommend going with a new one on a slightly different tree.

[SonnysMom]

If it makes you feel better I had a really, really difficult to fit horse. The master saddler from Patrick Saddlery was in the states for a trade show. He came out to my barn in his dress clothes, in winter, did wither tracings and took pictures of Finnegan.
He did bring one of his saddles with him from the trade show that was similar to what he was going to make for me. I did not sit in it or ride it. It was too small for me and too narrow for Finnegan. But I got to see the workmanship, the design, the wide gullet and where the blocks were.

He was still able to make me a saddle that both me and my horse love. My local saddler that found Patrick for me did the final flocking adjustment. So custom saddles can work out.

At least you get to ride in a demo saddle before placing an order. :winkgrin:

Good luck.

[alto]

@r.matey;7863545

When we were doing demos a couple weeks ago I rode in the Spring first and liked it – then rode in the Chloe and LOVED it, so that was the one I kept to try over fences. I want to go with my horse’s preference (the Chloe),

Read the fine print on the contracts, ask any specific questions in emails so you have a paper trail …
then buy that saddle that both you & your horse love.

For every saddle nightmare story, there are probably 100’s or even 1000’s of stories where everything came out just as hoped.

Do make sure that you are comfortable with your fitter/rep, that you have realistic expectations (some people expect that the rep will be able to drop everything & appear with an instant solution - even when rep covers a massive territory.)