I’m sorry for being a new poster and belaboring this point, but why did Amos’ trainer need to demonstrate the behavior? I feel sad for the horse because I would never create an explosive situation at the expense of the horse to make an owner happy
14 Likes
My only information on this is per Amos, when she posted the video:
6 Likes
It wasn’t about soundness though it was about how we aren’t capable enough riders to get them to go the way they need to to succeed. Us ammies ruining her sales because we can’t ride good enough lol
editing to add more: she didn’t say TBs weren’t suitable for ammies, she was saying ammies are basically a problem in her sales program because ammies can’t ride the horses she sells properly so they aren’t a good market for her to make money from. She also said something about our lack of skill is ruining eventing and horse sport in general.
10 Likes
That’s why I said ammy doesn’t equal incompetence. However Amos proved her point?
5 Likes
@Marigold thank you for the thoughtful, educational, and detailed post. I wish I could like it 10 times
11 Likes
And my point is, what is Amos like in person? Because I would never ever do that to a horse in pain. If you don’t believe me the door is open.
I would never create a situation and bottle a horse up like that for the owner. It’s not right. It’s why I side eye the professional. I’m not and never will be the one to purposely create pain so an owner believes me. And quite frankly I don’t want to do business with an owner who expects that.
There are red flags here but I don’t think @Amos realizes the biggest one is them.
15 Likes
Same, not in the defense sector, but for a global corporation.
Absolutely agree with what you and @FitzE have said about the importance of written communication in business and that it is best practice for situations in which any communication could be misrepresented or misconstrued.
12 Likes
Perfectly said. Thank you!
10 Likes
The CotH community does not represent the majority of amateurs. The average amateur has an understanding of connection congruent with first level dressage at best, probably more like training level. I actually have to agree with Jessica that MOST amateurs are not suited for sensitive horses, which could be TB.
13 Likes
Just for comparison, this is what long lining (double lunging) can look like when the proper foundation is in place and the horse is not in pain. There are always moments that aren’t so pretty (there always are!), but the pony below had had 7 weeks off in December/January after I had surgery and this was the first day back. (Ideally we would be in an enclosed area; for reference, the snow was fluffy, not slick, and pony is barefoot.)
The outside line “bouncing” across the hocks as the horse moves is what creates the weight in the outside rein (rather than actively pulling on it). Soft contact should be maintained with the inside rein to control the size of the circle. If someone does it differently, please share your perspective.
41 Likes
Several hundred posts ago in this thread I commented on my distaste for the general derision towards amateurs. Adult amateurs come with a whole range of experiences, and the same is true of professionals.
The professional lunging the horse seems to have made my point for me.
31 Likes
At the end of the day the horse sucks back and doesn’t understand long lining.
I’m not sure why this is confusing to people. I don’t mean you @KellyS. The horse was put into a horrible spot to prove something to the owner. Why? I’m sorry but if a rider or me as the rider tells a horse owner no I won’t get on because xyz, I don’t need proof and they have never needed proof.
Why did Amos need proof? Never mind she’s happy with the proof despite the wtf.
ETA: I don’t think Amos is a client that is easy to please. I could be wrong but that is my impression based on the fact the trainer purposefully put the horse in pain.
18 Likes
Lovely pony! This is how Paul Maye taught me to long line years ago. Very correct and a useful comparison for Amos as she evaluates where her horse might do best. Also very reminiscent of the warmup I provided for my KS mare – a nice stretch before getting on and followed by a considerate warmup under saddle and she could do quite a bit happily. In fact, this kind of work will actively improve many KS horses as it stretches and correctly muscles the back.
18 Likes
Thank you! Paul Maye is a good friend of ours, and a great instructor. A different carriage driver instructor taught me how to long line, and I use it as part of the training process for starting young horses and, in this case, to complement training for a pony that does dressage and jumps (doesn’t drive…yet 
).
Yes, it’s wonderful for developing softness and stretch over the back and strengthening the topline.
It’s such a fantastic skill set to have in your tool box but it is so easy to do it wrong (been there, done that). As @Platoon mentioned, using it to demonstrate whatever needed to be demonstrated in this instance only created more pain and discomfort for the poor horse. Long lining should not be used as a way to “control” a strong horse, ever (which is the reason Amos provided for its use).
17 Likes
I was always shown double long lining with the outside rein going behind the horses hindquarters not across the back (by a person that did racehorses, but she was great, could do figure eights easily with babies, switch directions, was almost magical!).) Does that make a difference?
1 Like
Great post, and hopefully, for the sake of her beautiful horse, OP will take heart of what you and several others are trying to explain - the circumstance this horse was put in after he left Benchmark definitely appears to have made a bad situation much worse. This is not the right trainer to handle this horse at this point in his life (or perhaps ever).
OP’s continued ill-placed defense of really poor horsemanship is starting to rub me wrong. A lot of people very experienced in OTTBs are trying to help her solve this problem, and she’s just lashing out over and over that her trainer has no culpability and this is all Jessica’s fault. Jessica obviously sold this horse to the “wrong” home, not that she has a crystal ball and could know that, but it’s time for OP to get over it and acknowledge that she herself has contributed to the situation she is in. After watching both the sales videos and the long-line video several times, there is no doubt in my mind that the trainer was over-horsed and got herself dumped off. This was not Jessica’s fault.
His surgery is done - the hardest part may be yet to come though. There are people out there that can safely rehab this horse and ride him through his antics. As someone else said already, he now has lots of “tools” in his belt that he can and will pull out as his rehab progresses. This is not going to be for the faint of heart. Take some free advice from collective COTH and find a new trainer that will handle him appropriately. But leaving him in the hands of someone that thinks bottling him up is the right answer is just a recipe for disaster.
25 Likes
I do it over the back not over the hocks. I will vary the inside rein configuration based upon what I am working on. However, I am working with an older upper level dressage horse not a young, green horse.
5 Likes
I typically do behind the hindquarters with my young horses, too, and can do figure eights, smaller and larger circles, and leg yields on the line. Over the back is suitable for young horses who are reactive to the line around their hocks (especially if they get it under their tail) or older horses who don’t need that barrier to avoid swinging the hocks out or losing the shoulder.
I prefer around the hindquarters as well because I have seen a surcingle be pulled/slip sideways when a horse spooked and tried to run while the line was going over the back. Harder for that to happen when the outside line goes around the hindquarters.
6 Likes
We welcome users to provide positive or negative feedback about companies, trainers, sellers, etc. Both sides have had ample opportunity to address the issues related to this sale, and as the thread has been getting into personal commentary, we’re going to close it with hopes that the parties can come to a resolution dealing with each other directly.
If the buyer would like to start a new thread in Horse Care to discuss her horse’s condition and treatment, she’s welcome to do so.
Others are also welcome to start a thread about long lining techniques, etc.
51 Likes
