Because she spends enough time complaining about how annoying buyers are and how annoying selling horses is, it seems that maybe she should consider scaling down the business or getting someone to help if it’s such an impingement on her life to have the business.
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On the other hand, I see plenty of complaints about people/buyers from people who sell 1 to 5 horses a year. Should they not sell, or use agents or auctions or hire assistants?
Every now and then I’ll vaguebook about groups of people pissing me off. I try to be vague enough that it lets me blow off steam but not pinpoint who set me off - and often enough very innocent friends and or students of mine have said “uhoh, was it me? Did I screw up?” I deal almost entirely with people I know at least a bit, so I’ve cut way back on those posts because I don’t want people I enjoy being around thinking “is it me?”
I have no idea how many inquiries you get if you’re selling 1 horse a year, much less 200. But at both ends of the scale, it has got to be frustrating getting requests from however many people who either didn’t read the ad or didn’t make a spreadsheet of horses they were looking at noting what they learned from the ad and what they wondered about.
Just like boarders complain or comment about barn owners’ quirks, and barn owners complain or comment about boarders quirks , (not always in either case, and not meaning everyone who ever complains should move to the other position), buyers and sellers b what’s complain about each others’ quirks. Absolutely, take note, and if the comments match your style too closely, you might do better elsewhere - or you might learn how something you do might really inconvenience someone else in a way you hadn’t even considered.
For years I wasn’t horse shopping because I was perfectly stocked (well, almost, barring homebred Mr Bucky McBuckerston) . Also for years I’ve read Benchmark writeups and watched clips because it’s really interesting to read descriptions and watch videos of so many horses from one perspective, and see their pedigrees and learn what lines one successful seller likes. Then life changed and I was looking. When I saw a smaller, sporty adult I liked the looks of on Jess’ page, I knew enough from reading her and other sellers’ comments to write her what I bet was a 3 or 4 sentence note saying “ I saw X horse. I’m looking for someone to ride I might sell in a year. How extensive is the flaw you mentioned?”
Reader, I bought that horse.
It’s true, I have my own place, so it’s easier to sort of ignore the cost of a horse who might just be taking up space rather than bringing joy or income, but I bought that Benchmark horse and have been having so much fun with her, and have ridden her while taking several students for their first foxhunt, confident that I could focus on them as need be rather than having to cope with the new to hunting horse I’m on. She’s probably not for sale any time soon….😇
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Argh. The edit function is acting up on my phone and most of my post didn’t show up here. Sorry. Leaving it hoping I can find the remnants in the ether tomorrow.
Horse shopping/selling is a pain for everyone.
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For those who don’t have Facebook. Posted by Jessica Redman:
The post is referencing this:
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Thank you! Sorry I forget you might have to have Facebook to see the link.
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No worries.
I get both sides. Coming from an owner perspective though, horses are becoming increasingly cost prohibitive - including maintenance. Most people can’t afford to take risks anymore or subsidize a lame horse. Sellers may need to realize that this is the new norm, just like the new norm in the housing market is half a million dollars and increasingly out of the reach of the average person.
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Yeah and I do think it’s easier to take a “risk” on a horse that is already doing the job that they want, despite not perfect x-rays, then taking a younger horse with not perfect x-rays that isn’t as proven at the job.
It’s tough, really for all involved.
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It’s sad, isn’t it? From another POV, horse buying/selling often comes with the same ‘smarmy’ attached as ‘used car salesman’. Buyers are tired of getting shafted by shady sellers, so all sellers get smeared, deserved or not. Sellers are tired of being blamed for the unsuitable horse, etc. I think the pendulum swings wildly at times, from one extreme to another, and buying/selling horses is no different.
I hope we find a way to settle in the middle, with “reality” becoming “normal” in that people understand that as living beings horses are no different from us in that they require upkeep, and sometimes that upkeep is very expensive.
And, as you compared it to the house market, as prices have gone up less (ordinary) people are willing to take on ‘maintenance’.
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I get where both parties are coming from but horses aren’t cheap and with land and boarding barns decreasing, the market for greenies straight off the track will decrease. People are going to want to buy horses already doing the job at task vs taking chances.
People are probably stretching their budget with shoes, training, basic vet work, plus a few competitions a year. Add in more maintenance and it kills their budget.
We aren’t creating future riders that make their own horse. It seems everyone has a trainer these days. So I see where it’s harder for riders who have an OTTB budget but really need that nice and steady BTDT to show them the ropes as they don’t know how to ride a green horse.
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I haven’t bought a horse from Benchmark, but I have from another very similar professional. I’ve been very happy with my horse, and I didn’t even go to try him.
What I most respect about a seller is making the honest effort to match the horse’s temperament and talents to the buyer/ rider’s skills, riding plans and situation. I’m in my 70s, have been restricted to flat work/ dressage only, and wanted a fun but not lethal project. Given my age, it had to have resale potential so kissing spines had to be ruled out. My OTTB ticks all the boxes. Would he be perfect for everyone? Heck no. But he really is a great fit for me.
Having sold a few horses myself over the years, I think the most frustrating thing for a seller is unrealistic expectations on the part of the buyer, their inability to identify their current strengths and what the next steps would logically be. Often there is a horse that is clearly wrong for someone, but knowing the right horse is rather more art than science. That’s where someone with Jessica’s experience can be incredibly valuable in the buying process IMHO.
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This statement by Jessica makes no sense to me. It’s very different to have maintenance and PPE findings in a horse already successful at the upper levels than one just starting out.
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Agreed the two are very different findings. You buy a horse already doing the job, it’s likely it’s middle aged, you aren’t going to be paying for it for another ~30 years if it doesn’t work out. Even if it doesn’t work out for you, it usually has marketable training and skills to go to a different home in a different discipline. You buy a baby horse, if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t have marketable skills or training and you’re feeding it for another 25+ years. If you can afford to.
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Exactly. So who takes the Benchmark and other reseller horses and turns them into the BTDT steady Eddie OTTBs? Not a ton of us out there. Then, the stigma that TBs are hot, hard to ride, skinny, and broken really takes hold because fewer competent people are taking them off the track and actually putting time on them, and also because the majority of OTTBs might be unsuitable for that ammy or kid on a budget. It’s a vicious cycle.
I see both sides. But I really don’t appreciate snark aimed at buyers just trying to get something sound any more than I appreciate snark at sellers being honest that they can’t guarantee the horse will be sound forever.
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Another thing that stood out to me - top level horses with kissing spines are a sample of the horses where KS doesn’t bother them. Top level horses with arthritis or chips or whatever are the ones who didn’t fall apart - it doesn’t mean every horse with chips will hold up to ANY work. A proven horse doing things is the one that came out of the threshing intact, not the other 90%.
There’s a large block in there talking about maintenance - top level horses (again, that was the focus of a good chunk of the post) are “maintained” through VERY expensive recurring treatments. How many local amateurs can do weekly PEMF, chiro, massage, and Adequan, plus bi-yearly joint injections and expensive supplements? How many can afford the shockwave/surgery/rehab/etc etc to keep their horses in fine form instead of retiring them early due to costs? That’s just not reality.
I do think that many buyers want “top level prospects” when they probably will never jump over 2’9" at home. I also think plenty of people want perfect X-rays when they themselves don’t have clean joints! Vetting the buyer is no small task and I can see how Jessica/Benchmark and the others probably get frustrated - you don’t want to send the hot sensitive mare off to someone who really should buy a teenaged QH golden oldie. Still, putting your buyers on blast isn’t my favorite tactic on social media - especially FB where MOST people shop these days. 
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I interpret her comments about top level horses winning with various “blemishes” and receiving lots of maintenance a little differently (I’m not saying I agree with her take on this, just expressing my interpretation of her comments).
To me it read more as a combination of “if you want to make a top level horse, you need to understand that there is no such thing as one that is maintenance-free” and “if you are realistic about your abilities and goals and what you actually need your horse to be able to do, the (likely) much easier job of insert generally easier job than regularly competing at a truly upper level here probably won’t require the horse to get the oodles of maintenance you’re afraid of/can’t afford.”
I can understand her frustration with (presumably frequently ammy) buyers insisting they want talent for the upper levels but they don’t want anything that might require maintenance in the future because they can’t afford it or what have you. The fact of the matter is that if you want to compete at a high level, there is a major cost associated with that and a good chunk of it is maintenance for your horse. Assuming we’re talking prelim+, 4th level+, 1m+, 3’+ hunters type of upper levels, I just don’t know how many folks can get away with truly upper level competitive aspirations without doing the whole shebang of Adequan and supplements and injections and body work and PEMF and and and. Maybe there are more folks out there doing that without $$ maintenance than I realize, I don’t know and haven’t been actively in that circle in a few years, but the folks I do know who still compete sure are doing a lot of all of the above. My circle skews primarily dressage and H/J, but the eventers I know seem to do the same.
I have a harder time regarding the second point that theoretically many horses with “jewelry” or whatever will likely be fine doing lower level jobs without major interventions. I agree to a point–there’s a lot of horses bopping around happily at the lower levels with god knows what in their joints but they’re comfy and/or serviceably sound. But everyone also knows or owns or has owned or has heard of a horse where a seemingly “minor” issue led to chronic and unfixable issues, or the horse that does ok when maintained just so but the wheels seem to fall off otherwise. As we all know horse keeping is only getting more expensive and the prospect of having to board an unrideable horse for a couple decades, or euthanize a young unsound animal, or any of the other devastating possibilities is enough to make anyone on a budget a bit neurotic when shopping.
I don’t envy Jess’ position, she sees a volume of buyers that most of us probably can’t even imagine. I’m sure many of them likely have wildly unrealistic expectations and I certainly don’t begrudge her the frustration. But as someone who’s paid to have a large expensive unrideable pet for the last decade and euthanized a coming 6yo for undisclosed and unfixable issues, I also don’t begrudge buyers who have things that are a hard no on a PPE.
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If sellers are convinced these vet findings are nothing they could always offer a soundness guarantee. Crickets? Yeah, I thought so. If they don’t want to buy that risk why should a buyer?
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I don’t want this to come across snarky. i really respect Jessica’s program and she has a wealth of knowledge to share. (Actually could forsee myself buying from her one day. So we can chat about this then)
BUT, I can only assume the potential buyers are friends with her on Facebook and see the posts. I can only imagine being a potential buyer that did pass on a horse, and for whatever reason believe they are wholeheartedly right for not following through with a purchase, whether or not the horse could have performed to their wishes, then seeing a post assumedly written about you. I guess you would assume that you weren’t the buyer she’s writing about because you assume your reasons for not purchasing were valid.
But it makes an interesting dynamic.
I don’t think anyone who passes on a “chip” believes they were any less valid for doing so after reading the post or are going to change their mind. Just, as most sellers (myself included) who believe that more people should overlook small blemish could be conviced that our horses wouldn’t make lovely partners. So I think the argument is almost polarizing than convincing either party.
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I just don’t understand the point of publicly insulting your customers. Doesn’t seem like a good sales tactic to me.
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I think it’s so off putting when horse sellers post things like this. My job requires some sales and while many/most clients are kind of delusional when they first arrive, my job is to educate them until they’re ready to make a good decision. If I whined about them publicly rather than on teams like a professional, I would expect to have 0 clients. Imagine a realtor complaining that people won’t buy houses with inspection issues. “I know a house that’s had this supposed foundation problem that’s been standing for 60 years like that” - ok I’ll take that one, but for all we know this one is going to fall down tomorrow, so…
I am very reasonable about a vetting on a horse currently doing the job and pretty tough on one that is being sold with a price tag reflective of potential to do a job where the only information I have to go off for their physical capability to actually do so is the vetting. I prefer not to work with people who indicate that they feel like they’re doing me a favor taking my money. It tends to work well for me. She may be totally lovely and she has a great eye for a horse but I just wouldn’t choose to do business with anyone who is selling me a product while aggressively being unwilling to understand my risk perspective as the buyer.
I’m getting a new roof right now for example and have concerns about tree detritus falling on it after I spend a lot on it. The guy who probably gets my business is the one who didn’t blow me off and took the time to explain to me the different materials, puncture resistance, and cost to repair/maintain as it pertains to that. Are the other guys probably right that it probably won’t be a problem? Sure. As someone about to write a 25k check though, I appreciate that one guy took the time to acknowledge that this is a big investment and I want to feel comfortable with it, even if compared to his commercial roofing jobs this is small potatoes. That’s why sales is a job and it pays well for people who are good at it. It’s work.
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