Benchmark Sporthorses?

[Simkie]

I felt so crazy until I was able to find my stick and really measure my little filly I’m 16 hands at the eyeballs, so really thought she was smaller than expected but the seller was just so specific about the height!

Geez, there are all sorts of reasons for wanting all sorts of specific qualities in a horse. The buyer is allowed to want what they want. Sellers complaining about it, or totally disregarding that and straight up misrepresenting some important element is bizarre. Sell the horse you’ve got!

[Amy3996]

I have to laugh about the height thing. When I was shopping in November 2020, I was looking for 16hh. Didn’t need a giant since I’m barely 5’5” when I stand up really straight, but my personal preference is larger horses. My then coming 6yo TB was just a smidge over 16hh when I bought him. Figured he might still have a little growing to do, but didn’t bargain on him sticking at a solid 16.3hh last week.

I personally wouldn’t buy from Jess because my preference is to try something at least a couple of times before I make the purchase commitment, and that’s not her business model. Fair. Her rider in most of the videos is Stacey… I can’t remember her last name off the top of my head but she owns Hound Run Farm and has a pretty robust FB presence herself. She and Jess seem to work hand in hand and Stacey has some really lovely horses too. Her model seems to involve holding on to them a little longer, putting a few more off-track miles (first jump schools, etc.) on them. Seems like she might be more my speed if or when I find myself in the market again.

[McGurk]

Oh, I agree. I am only 5’ 7", but I am a large person, and I foxhunt. I am not comfortable on anything less than 16H, and I need 16H and sturdy. You could argue I’d be fine on a smaller horse, but I wouldn’t care. I know what’s comfortable for me, and that’s it.

As far as Benchmark’s comments, though, I get her frustration. Some people just want the bigger horses for whatever reason. So if she’s trying to steer a client to the mellower, easier to restart 16H horse, but they won’t consider it and want the spicier, more difficult 17H, just because it’s bigger. She states that she tries to make good matches for her buyers, and sometimes, buyers are there own worst enemy.

But piggybacking on someone else’s point, above, bottom line is, you’re in sales. Your job is to give the customer what they want. If you can’t persuade them to consider the more suitable horse, sell them the one they want.

[trubandloki]

@McGurk

But piggybacking on someone else’s point, above, bottom line is, you’re in sales. Your job is to give the customer what they want. If you can’t persuade them to consider the more suitable horse, sell them the one they want.

This can turn around and bite the seller in the end.

Buyer buys the not suitable horse, things go sideways, lots of badmouthing of seller for selling bad horses happens.

[McGurk]

Yup, which is why Benchmark gets frustrated and posted her rant.

I see both sides, I truly do.

[tohorse]

Yup echo this. Have an OTTB, not from Benchmark to be clear, that’s had all the ailments in the world and not a whole lotta joy, just a lot of vet bills she’s given me in my 3.5 yrs of ownership. Currently turned out, doing nothing finally wrapping up rehab from her latest injury. Close spinous processes, but no degradation, I wish I had x-rayed that back when I bought. That’s just bad luck too, yes, but why would I subject myself willingly to this risk if I could move on and find a horse that gives me even slightly better odds?

[rulex]

@barnesthenoble

As we all know horse keeping is only getting more expensive and the prospect of having to board an unrideable horse for a couple decades, or euthanize a young unsound animal, or any of the other devastating possibilities is enough to make anyone on a budget a bit neurotic when shopping.

I learned the hard way that buying the horse with the PPE findings can also invalidate coverage for medical and mortality insurance. That adds another level of risk on a 5 figure purchase that is a good sum of money for many one horse amateurs.

[vxf111]

The third option is to tell the buyer “sorry, I don’t think Dobbins is a match and not sell.”

[AMWookey]

The height thing is always interesting to me. My spouse is 6ft on the nose, with very long femurs. For the longest time (until his guy developed enough) he looked more appropriate on my 15.3 chunk then his slender 16.2. it’s all what people are comfortable with, but I don’t think anyone would look at him on my mare and say it’s too small.

I would buy from Jess in a heartbeat. She is incredibly honest. There are tons of folks out there that are less honest who will take you for a ride.

[Simkie]

@AMWookey

The height thing is always interesting to me. My spouse is 6ft on the nose, with very long femurs. For the longest time (until his guy developed enough) he looked more appropriate on my 15.3 chunk then his slender 16.2. it’s all what people are comfortable with, but I don’t think anyone would look at him on my mare and say it’s too small.

But that’s not really the point, is it?

The buyer can want whatever they want. A buyer can want a 16.2 1/4" bright bay gelding with 2 1/2 socks that “passes” a $10k PPE. A lot of us might say “wow, that’s specific, are you sure you can’t compromise at all?”

But the seller saying the horse IS those things when the horse is clearly not–maybe it’s a mare, or chestnut, or has no socks–is not okay.

Bitching very publicly about how bonkers the buyer is to want a very comprehensive PPE is not okay.

If the seller cannot accommodate the buyer’s laundry list, cool, tell them that. Don’t misrepresent the horse. Don’t publicly lambast buyers with a different appetite for risk.

[AMWookey]

But has Jessica misrepresented a size before? I obviously don’t know, but I do know she provides far more details and information and photos and honest thoughts then most of the sellers out there. Much better then the one reseller that takes every angle to make the horse seem bigger and then it steps off the trailer at 15.1 (been there, done that)

Just like a buyer can think they need a 16.3 hh horse, Jessica is equally allowed to have her opinion that some buyers are unrealistic in what they need/want.

No where in my post did I say a buyer couldn’t want what they want. I just think it’s interesting because to me, I am FAR more interested in the body size as opposed to the height, because in my experience, that is what makes or breaks a riders position and legs on a horse. And that can go both ways, a smaller rider may fit better on a narrow body 17hh, then a thick 16hh.

[endlessclimb]

Oh she correctly represents size. That I can attest for. Shayney was advertised as 16.2. I thought there was some fluff in there, like most sellers do. She got off the trailer, and son of a B, she’s every bit of 16.2, maybe a little more.

So for that, I think she’s good.

[Simkie]

@AMWookey

But has Jessica misrepresented a size before?

I’m not commenting on Jess, or saying she has misrepresented size. I recently purchased a horse from another seller that was misrepresented in that way, and that’s where the discussion about size began.

But it’s all the same thing–sellers who think buyers are Doing It Wrong.

Sure, sellers can certainly advise a buyer that they may want to consider something the seller thinks is more suitable. Or a seller can say they cannot accommodate.

But sellers independently and unilaterally making the decision that the horse is more suitable, or that the risk of lameness etc, is unimportant, are stepping way out of their lane. It’s not their decision to make.

And wrt size, there are ALL sorts of reasons to want a specific size. Suitability to the rider isn’t the one, single, only factor. But that sort of thing is probably why some people misrepresent. They justify with “he’s thick and will take up a lot of leg, so it doesn’t matter that he’s a whole lot shorter than I said. He rides like a bigger horse!”

[fivestrideline]

@Simkie

And wrt size, there are ALL sorts of reasons to want a specific size. Suitability to the rider isn’t the one, single, only factor

Truth! Maybe I only want horses that are 16h, size 74 Rambo, 48" girth, and cob bridle, so that I can use all the same gear on them. That’s totally fine and my choice as a buyer to turn down anything that doesn’t fit my criteria .

[vxf111]

Can you imagine if other retail sellers were like this? Bitching on social media because buyers had specific needs.

Do you think the car dealership is going to try to talk me into a different model of car because the dealership thinks I don’t know what I need as well as they do? I mean, talk about paternalistic. If the dealership is talking me into something different I know it’s because the dealership wants to make money, not because it’s in my better interest.

Or that the dealership would take to social media to decry how silly buyers are for not wanting flood-damaged used cars because the dealership knows, having held onto cars no longer than a couple months max, that they never ripens into an issue years down the line. No, they just move onto the next potential buyer.

Or that a dealership would claim with a straight face that any concerns they have are in the buyer’s interest and not profit driven? No way. I know if the salesperson is pushing too hard that I ought to walk because that person is NOT looking out for ME.

This whole practice of talking about your clients on social media in this way is unprofessional. If you have a public facing business, don’t make public statements on social media criticizing your buyers. Period. Even if it’s not on your “business” social media, realize that if you are talking about the business it’s getting linked back to the business no matter where you post it.

[millerra]

yea- you forgot one criteria - tree size… ask me how I know…

[MadTrotter]

I get that argument. I also see, from following her for a while, that she is overwhelmed with “interest” so maybe alienating some prospective buyers is not the worst thing for her business model.

I won’t call those buyers “tire kickers”, either. Different buyers need differing amounts of education and hand-holding though the process. I don’t think Jess’s team or her particular “product” make sense for that buyer.

What we probably need is one more layer from track to ammie…someone in her pipeline who buys a $4kish horse from her, puts 6 months of rides on, a couple shows, and sells for, I don’t know, $12k-ish.

But that’s low margins in expensive areas…

[vxf111]

@MadTrotter

she is overwhelmed with “interest” so maybe alienating some prospective buyers is not the worst thing for her business model

Possibly. But who knows when the buyer she alienates today might be the one she wants to cultivate down the line? It just seems like a poor business strategy to me, but she can do what she wants.

[McGurk]

I think she knows exactly what her niche market it is, and is marketing to it very successfully. She’s selling to highly competent amateurs and pros who are capable of finishing a horse themselves, who won’t be put off by something forward or spicy, who are capable of making a decision on horse quickly and can tolerate a certain amount of risk at the price point she’s selling.

I doubt very much that she’s alienating that market with her social media post.

The value that she adds is her contacts with breeders and at the track, her ability to evaluate and source the horses, get decent pics and video of them and put the first post track rides on them. Also that you can see multiple horses at the same place in one visit.

IF her business model was to keep a horse for 6 months, take it to a few shows, have it jumping 2’ 6" and be started on changes, then sell it at a higher price point, then I’d agree with you - she might be alienating prospective buyers. But the target market for those horses is very different.

[vxf111]

@McGurk

I think she knows exactly what her niche market it is, and is marketing to it very successfully. She’s selling to highly competent amateurs and pros who are capable of finishing a horse themselves, who won’t be put off by something forward or spicy, who are capable of making a decision on horse quickly and can tolerate a certain amount of risk at the price point she’s selling.

Then why is she complaining about buyers who don’t meet this description. If this isn’t her market why not just say “move along” when people call her who aren’t competent pros unafraid of kissing spines who will buy a challenging ride sight unseen?

The fact that she’s complaining about it on social media suggests it’s bothering her enough to post. And why let it bother you if you don’t need or want these buyers because people are falling all over themselves to stuff cash in your pocket. It doesn’t totally make sense.

I think she has a great business and turns horses over fast. Good for her. So keep on keeping on and don’t publicly complain about buyers who just don’t happen to be a match for your business model.