I was thinking the same thing, can one use an Equifit belly band in FEI? That would obviously be the answer in this case for him.
[QUOTE=ybiaw;8451471]
Here are the FEI Jumping Rules for 2016.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm I read article 257 Saddlery - and there are no specifications around the girth used or girth accessories. So my thought is - no restriction against using the belly band in competition. Anyone else know of somewhere else in the rules that may speak to this? I just did a scan of the Table of Contents for the appropriate topic and Saddlery is the only one that stood out to me and it was referenced again in the International Competition section as well.
Geoff Billington has weighed in. Pardon his language. So funny! See the comments below the CoTH article.
I think it is bloody unfortunate, pun intended (while meanwhile trying to avoid the expletive I mean,) but a correct application of a welfare rule.
[QUOTE=Renn/aissance;8451603]
I think it is bloody unfortunate, pun intended (while meanwhile trying to avoid the expletive I mean,) but a correct application of a welfare rule.[/QUOTE]
This, and I think this is how most people felt about what happened with Steffen and Legolas the other year. They had a lot of sympathy, mostly because of the professional way in which they responded to the ruling. I’d have had a lot more sympathy for the rider here, too, had his team’s response been similar.
But I do think that the rule as it stands is a good one. Sensitive or not, there shouldn’t be blood on the horse period.
[QUOTE=ybiaw;8451215]
Like when Steffen Peters and Legolas were disqualified at the World Cup Finals for this very same thing - there was the initial “UGH, this sucks so much!” but then it was basically “I’d never do anything to intentionally hurt my horse, but rules is rules so we accept our disqualification.”[/QUOTE]
This exactly. Steffan was far more classy about it.
I dislike hardline rules for situations lime this, because I think they are made for beaurocratic minds too scared or lazy to make a judgment call and formulate reasoning for why.
The rule itself stateso something about blood marks INDICATING EXCESSIVE FORCE. Anybody can see that these marks do not indicate excessive force. Somebody who is capable of making a judgment call about whatindicates excessive force should be making these calls.
At that level, it’s not tiddly winks any more. People are putting their horses on planes and spending tens of thousands of dollars to get to these shows, and winning or losing tens of thousands in prize money. This cannot hinge on whether or not the horse gets the tiniest of nick’s that in no way shape or form constitutes abuse.
I’m 100% for horse welfare, but when taken to these ridiculous, knew jerk extremes it just turns back around to harming the sport overall.
I’m not a fan of zero tolerance rules. Zero tolerance often leads to zero brain cells applied.
It should be a judgement call. Multiple ways to handle it. Ground jury including competition vet could be involved. Yes there would still be controversy, but there will be controversy either way. Horses aren’t any safer tonight because Bertram was disqualified. And Bertram is just one example.
I recognize my opinion isn’t a popular one and I’m ok with that. But I’m not a fan of rules that catch as many good horsemen as bad.
I don’t think spur marks are acceptable in our sport, regardless of intent, and regardless of who caused them. I know Bertram is not a horse abuser, but they have to have the same rules for everyone. And I think the zero tolerance on blood rule is a good thing - Photos like this go viral and the general public assumes it is the norm. It is already difficult to convince the average joe that horses enjoy working, spur injuries being ignored will not help our case.
I guess I’m in the minority - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=974145119336981&id=700671623351000
[QUOTE=sixpoundfarm;8451682]
This exactly. Steffan was far more classy about it.[/QUOTE]
How long has Steffan been in the limelight at the top of the sport? Decades?
I rarely cut anyone slack based on age, but I believe Bertram Allen is very young. Remarkably so, considering his ability and success. I’m guessing his reaction might have something to do with that, and a few years down the road, it might have been different.
It’s a very unfortunate event, for sure.
Regarding the belly band, I know I’ve seen jumpers show in them, but I don’t remember off the top of my head if it was in FEI classes.
You mean at the 2015 World Cup in Las Vegas. 
Steffen is very respectful of the owner, and he stepped up quickly.
The complaining about this ruling is odd. BA entered the horse show, and agreed to abide by FEI rules (assuming he knew them). He inadvertently broke one of the rules by the way he rode the horse, and was disqualified. That was a risk he took. It’s a bit late for his team to say they disagree with the administration of the rule.
[QUOTE=Pipkin;8451791]
I don’t think spur marks are acceptable in our sport, regardless of intent, and regardless of who caused them. I know Bertram is not a horse abuser, but they have to have the same rules for everyone. And I think the zero tolerance on blood rule is a good thing - Photos like this go viral and the general public assumes it is the norm. It is already difficult to convince the average joe that horses enjoy working, spur injuries being ignored will not help our case.
I guess I’m in the minority - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=974145119336981&id=700671623351000[/QUOTE]
I agree with you.
I watched the class live on TV yesterday, and I did see a couple of riders using a belly band at the show, and also one rider who had left a rectangular patch of hair unclipped on the flanks - which looked odd but which would no doubt be effective. So there are a number of options to stop spur marks on a clipped, thin skinned horse (including no/different spurs). If you know your horse is prone to spur marks, and there are zero tolerence rules in place, then it is the responsibility of the team - rider, owner, coach, grooms etc - to make sure it never happens. No excuses - pros are pros as they are outstanding at their jobs (including grooms, coach etc) and this means ensuring you understand & abide by the rules.
BA was not abusive in his riding & he no doubt cares deeply about his horses welfare, but he was not exactly contrite. I would be mortified if I did this to a horse, not glossing over the nick as if it as nothing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and although I don’t think the horses welfare was compromised in the slightest (and we all make mistakes), a horse bleeding through riders use of spurs is unacceptable.
I do feel very sorry for BA, as his round was amazing. However life is never fair, and he is a very privileged young man with an incredible future ahead of him, so in the great scheme of things it is not the worst thing in the world (no comfort for him though). The rule itself may seem harsh but I do think it has an important part to play in horse protection. SJ in Europe is full of very strong characters shall we say, and although BA was innocent of abuse, many are not and if exceptions were allowed, the bullies with power would get away with it at the cost of horse welfare.
Belly bands are acceptable in all FEI jumper classes. I stewarded at Spruce Meadows this summer and a few riders went in and out of the International ring with them on.
This is a great article posted by an official in regards to the incident. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/blog/bertram-allen-disqualified-olympia-blood-521883
I agree that Bertram’s personal feelings and taking to social media after the event wasn’t done in a professional manner, but it’s hard to compare his actions against those of Steffen Peters. Bertram is 20 years old…and Steffen is not. 
That being said, as others have pointed out, Bertram knew what he was getting himself into when he entered an FEI class. Hopefully he grows a bit after this competition.
[QUOTE=KellyS;8451389]
The stewards at Fair Hill pulled her aside to examine her horse after she finished cross country. There is a picture somewhere that shows just how much blood was present. She told them it was due to her bit pinching the horse’s mouth and they did not do anything. That disgusts me. When you use chains on lever nosebands combined with leverage and/or twisted wire bits, and the horse’s mouth is bleeding profusely, that should be cause for disqualification.[/QUOTE]
So it sounds like it was seen, and deemed not to be an offense for reasons not explained here (was the blood not present when they inspected the horse?), and you don’t like the amount/type/combination of gear that has no rule disallowing it.
Your opinion is completely legitimate, but I must be slow, because I don’t quite see how what you think should be a rule applied to everyone, but is not a rule, constitutes giving her a free pass? I mean it sounds like a perfectly reasonable rule, but you know, still not a rule.
[QUOTE=Pipkin;8451791]
I don’t think spur marks are acceptable in our sport, regardless of intent, and regardless of who caused them. I know Bertram is not a horse abuser, but they have to have the same rules for everyone. And I think the zero tolerance on blood rule is a good thing - Photos like this go viral and the general public assumes it is the norm. It is already difficult to convince the average joe that horses enjoy working, spur injuries being ignored will not help our case.
I guess I’m in the minority - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=974145119336981&id=700671623351000[/QUOTE]
I agree. I’m a big fan of Bertram and this is a very unfortunate accident (especially because it’s very preventable), but I fully support the call made by officials and the “no blood” rule. Totally agree that once we start saying any amount of blood is okay, we really open up the sport for a big ugly fire storm. Put a belly band on, leave an unclipped patch of hair, or wear blunt spurs. Seeing the particular spurs he was wearing at the time, it’s not really a surprise that this happened. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t take great care of his horses, it just means that a few bad choices combined with bad luck created the perfect storm. I will say, I am a bit disheartened by the words and behavior of some of his fellow riders.
Again, I really feel for him, but we live with the choices we make, and hopefully learn from the bad ones.
MsR, where’d you see a picture of his spur? I guess I’ve seen lots of POW spurs that, while blunt, have enough of an edge that they could break the skin, but have never seen it happen.
Rough lesson, but blood is blood.
There was a photo posted here: https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/l/t1.0-9/1781970_3393904815826_7828559149270681567_n.jpg?oh=2e89afe4f8b743a5e1849de355e63ebe&oe=56D5D73D
Also a photo of BA on the same horse at a different competition makes it easy to see how something like this could have happened: http://www.theirishfield.ie/WEBFILES/315912-196678.jpg
That seems to be his spur of choice on many of his horses, so I think the fact that it happened to this one on this day was pure bad luck.
You guys, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills because of all the people who are posting on FB in his defense and saying that the FEI shouldn’t have disqualified him. Am I missing something? The ground jury CAN’T MAKE THIS A JUDGEMENT CALL because that leaves the rule open to an individual person’s interpretation of the rule and of how much blood is acceptable. I actually LIKE the rule as-written because it doesn’t leave room to question it or corrupt it. I think the FEI jury ABSOLUTELY was right to disqualify him, not because I don’t think BA is a great rider and not because I doubt that the welfare of his horses is of paramount importance…but because to make it a judgement on the part of an official makes the rule unfair! Why do I feel like I’m the only person who gets this or that maybe I’m el stupido and actually don’t understand what happened!!!
