It’s a crying shame that a rider at that level can’t keep the spurs from damaging his horse. If you can’t use spurs properly, don’t wear them.
Very true. Agreed.
[QUOTE=MsRidiculous;8452371]
I agree. I’m a big fan of Bertram and this is a very unfortunate accident (especially because it’s very preventable), but I fully support the call made by officials and the “no blood” rule. Totally agree that once we start saying any amount of blood is okay, we really open up the sport for a big ugly fire storm. Put a belly band on, leave an unclipped patch of hair, or wear blunt spurs. Seeing the particular spurs he was wearing at the time, it’s not really a surprise that this happened. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t take great care of his horses, it just means that a few bad choices combined with bad luck created the perfect storm. I will say, I am a bit disheartened by the words and behavior of some of his fellow riders.
Again, I really feel for him, but we live with the choices we make, and hopefully learn from the bad ones.[/QUOTE]
Yep. I’m in the “blood and you’re out, no exceptions” camp. Make it a judgement call, and you’ll run into scenarios like we’ve seen in eventing, where enforcement of the rules depends on how famous the rider is. Pretty good chance of Jane Amateur getting hammered for a spot of red while Patty Olympian gets a pass when her horse has blood running down its side.
I’m very sorry this happened to Bertram Allen, but rules is rules, and horse welfare comes before everything else. No matter how much money is on the line or how far the horse traveled.
Those look like pizza cutter/disc rowels, which I used to think were a “kinder” option than regular pointy rowels.
I used them on one of my horses that needed a bit more “oomph” over the bigger fences. And I would often leave them on when I rode my other horses just because it was easier than changing spurs out and I wasn’t particularly worried about accidentally spurring anyone.
Then I had another one of my horses trip on landing from a fence and flip me over her head. I left a slice right up her left side, and a matching slice on the back of my right leg (I also broke my leg and ankle in the fall, so the cut on my “good” leg was noticed much later!).
I was shocked by how much damage those particular spurs were capable of. And while it was a freak accident and much greater force than what you might apply simply through riding that caused the cuts, I pulled those spurs off and didn’t use them again.
Since then, I have seen very good trainers (i.e. not overly rough nor aggressive) leave marks on horses with those same spurs (usually after the horse has been naughty and refused or something along those lines). I don’t think it’s unforeseeable that those spurs could cause that sort of damage…especially on a freshly clipped horse.
Like everyone else, I feel terrible for BA, and I do not think he is an abusive rider whatsoever. But I also think that this is a situation that could have been prevented with a different type of spur. And I agree that adding shades of grey to the rule could have bigger implications than keeping it as is.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;8452707]
It’s a crying shame that a rider at that level can’t keep the spurs from damaging his horse. If you can’t use spurs properly, don’t wear them.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you in principle that riders should have an educated leg before they don spurs; but considering the things that some sensitive-skinned horses can find to open their skin on, I’m inclined to be sympathetic towards a rider I know to be an educated horseman. (Which is also how I feel about Steffen Peters having been set down on the same rule.) That said, I hadn’t seen what variety of spur Bertram was wearing and agree that if it was a rowelled spur that may have contributed.
I agree, blood = disqualification. However, if it all went down like Betram and the other riders are saying, I think it seriously needs to be looked into. At least on how they handle these types of things. What an embarrassing, awful thing to endure. Thinking you won, going to get the award, only to be told on the loudspeaker you are disqualified.
Blood on the horse and you are out. No if’s, ands, or buts. I was feeling a bit sad for the rider until I read some of the tweets (gag, that one guy has a filthy mouth! ) and until I saw another pic of those spurs. You can see the pressure from the spur by the way the skin is wrinkled.
World Cup Finals disqualification
Steffen Peters was disqualified for a small amount of blood this year as well.
http://www.usefnetwork.com/news/12587/2015/4/18/usef_statement_on_steffen_peters_el.aspx
There was sadness expressed, that after a large spook, Stefan’s spur caught Legolas and resulted in a small amount of blood…therefore disqualified. No major hissy fit ensued.
From what I read between the lines most could accept Bertam being disqualified directly After the boot check. But what happend is that he was in als second rider of the 15 horse jump off, declared winner, got ready for the prize giving and then announced by the commentator that Michael whitaker won.
The way the jury handled it was Bad. I think if he came out of the ring, got checked and then yellow carded or disqualified directly no one would complain. But the way it was handled leaves the riders wondering and helpless to a degree. The fei lets bigger welfare problems pass and goes extra strict with small things.
How will you follow the rules if they are not applied the same always and everywhere.
And it is not the only thing that happend at Olympia. Victoria Gulliksen showed and won while she was not eligible
I don’t ride at that level (clearly if you have ever seen me), however, I think you have to stick to the rules. Shades of grey open just way too many doors. I, too, wondered why ML wasn’t eliminated for blood in the horse’s mouth but that is not this topic.
As far as the behavior, though he is young, I expect better from top level competitors and their professional team- at least in public. In my company, (yes I know it is different) you won’t get cut any/much slack for unprofessional behavior, especially in a public forum.
It is quite an unfortunate accident and could have been handled better in the notification of the competitors, but have some sportsmanship and grace. It’s like Steve Harvey announcing the wrong Ms. Universe- crap happens, you move on.
Try to stay classy.
This is ridiculous. The picture that I saw didn’t show any significant spur mark. It easily could have been an abrasion and when the official wiped her hand across it brought up blood. If you read what Gregory Wathelet wrote on WoSJ, he says it best. “There are worse things than a small spur scratch…for example, we must banish from our sports people crashing into fences in the warm up ring, that pull their horses in the mouth, that use sharp bits and torture their horses…”
You cannot make it a “blood and out” situation. Even the FEI has put some kind of qualifier in their rules. This was not EXCESSIVE, which the FEI rules state it MUST be to be disqualified. Nowhere near.
He was robbed, plain and simple.
I hope none of you compete at the FEI level, because if you accidentally “abrade or slightly nick” your horse, you’re out. And you asked for it.
exactly what was unprofessional about Bertram Allen’s behavior afterwards? He didn’t throw a fit, run into the ring and demand his ribbon back. He said he was “gutted.” I think the other riders were more vocal than he was about the loss. He seemed to have handled it very well. He did appeal, just like McLain Ward did when they found shards of plastic under boots on Sapphire. He lost the appeal. There was absolutely nothing unprofessional about what he did.
[QUOTE=ybiaw;8451215]
Like when Steffen Peters and Legolas were disqualified at the World Cup Finals for this very same thing - there was the initial “UGH, this sucks so much!” but then it was basically “I’d never do anything to intentionally hurt my horse, but rules is rules so we accept our disqualification.”[/QUOTE]
That’s good sportmanship. The rules are the rules, intent aside. You take your lumps gracefully.
I don’t really have an opinion on this specifically, but it occurs to me…hmmmm, there truly MUST be a reason that SO many well-respected horsemen, riders, fellow competitors, etc. are not happy with this decision. Also, in general, I’m not a fan of telling people who feel they’ve been wronged to “just sit down and take it.” Like a code of silence. This is how a lot of not-right stuff is allowed to continue. Sportsmanship is one thing, but standing down on something when you feel you’ve been wronged (yes, after checking with qualified others you respect as well) without some pushback and attempting to prevent this sort of thing in the future is not helpful to any sport.
I thought he handled it fine, actually. The outrage was/is coming more from his fellow competitors than him, which says something to me. Whatever the decision ended up being, the way the officials dealt with it was really awful.
WoSJ has some interesting stuff on the whole thing that is worth a read.
That picture showed a freshly clipped horse with a tiny rub with almost no blood. I don’t know how that can be excessive. There were no rubs marks where hair was missing and not any scrape from the picture.
It is really strange to me that this tiny spur pimple would disqualify someone. Something is weird here.
I don’t claim to know anything about the FEI rules, but this just seems insane.
I can’t tell you how many spur rubs ( and big obvious ones). I see at rated shows and no one bats an eye. Not saying it is right and I know FEI sticks to a much stricter rule book, but this just seems ridiculous to me.
Also this should have been announced immediately. The fact they waited and made a fool of him in front of the awards ceremony is really sad.
Just my opinion but he has every right to be upset. This was wrong and handled the worst possible way it could have.
You have to remember that the steward had to notify the GJ of the abrasion and blood and that the GJ had to meet and decide to disqualify. That takes time; not a lot of time, but still getting everyone together at a major show can take a few minutes. The fact that they were able to make a decision so quickly in that atmosphere shows how important this was to the GJ.
[QUOTE=Pipkin;8451791]
I don’t think spur marks are acceptable in our sport, regardless of intent, and regardless of who caused them. I know Bertram is not a horse abuser, but they have to have the same rules for everyone. And I think the zero tolerance on blood rule is a good thing - Photos like this go viral and the general public assumes it is the norm. It is already difficult to convince the average joe that horses enjoy working, spur injuries being ignored will not help our case.
I guess I’m in the minority - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=974145119336981&id=700671623351000[/QUOTE]
I agree. You should not use a piece of equipment that will draw blood with normal use. Horses spook, they pull, all normal stuff that happens once in a while, and if your bit or spur causes them to bleed during normal behavior, you need to get rid of that piece of equipment.
The No Blood rule is a good one.
[QUOTE=sockmonkey;8453498]
I hope none of you compete at the FEI level, because if you accidentally “abrade or slightly nick” your horse, you’re out. And you asked for it.[/QUOTE]
Good thing there are spurs that don’t have a high potential for cutting or abrading horses. It’d take a magnificent amount of force to cut a horse with these guys, not matter how fresh the clip job or thin skinned the horse. Or maybe don’t wear spurs if your horse has such tissue-paper skin. Last I checked, the particular spurs that BA is wearing are not required by the FEI in show jumping. So, take this as an unfortunate incident that was obviously poorly handled by the people in charge of the competition, but I’m not comfortable with making blood on the horse a judgement call for the reasons I outlined above.
I don’t think it is acceptable to NEED a spur. More a failure of training.
