Best advice to improve slumpy sitting trot -- Help!

[normandy_shores]

So I’m hoping to make some big improvements to my position and sitting trot.

I’m tipped forward – looking down, hunched shoulders, collapsed ribcage. I’ve finally sorted my hands out (since the pic provided) and my horse is much happier and softer. Without my getting my seatbones under me and some STICK through the sitting trot, I won’t be as effective as I need to be to move up.

Best advice for keeping the chest and eyes up, shoulders back, etc? I always joke, “Tits up!” but it’s just a joke between. What exercises can I do to improve my slumpy trot? I’m struggling with riding a forward working trot while sitting. I ride a well trained thoroughbred (who goes fabulously if you ride him that way), but doesn’t have a lot (ok, any) of suspension and is pretty sensitive if you get jostled around too much (so I’m basically riding a very conservative trot, and without FORWARD, we’re not as in the bridle as we ought to be)

I do take lunge lessons to work on my position and sitting, but it’s totally different than actually riding the horse. Or at least it doesn’t seem to ALL translate for me.

An incriminating pic of our sitting work (though, as I said, horse has softened into my less braced hands this week after some less demanding rides and time with trainer)

And short vid of bareback trotting. I’m aware I stare down at my horse (hey, he could go somewhere without me knowing?), and that I’m still tipped forward, pinched with my thigh a bit, and my hands are basically locked on his wither. This was mostly a lazy day just goofing off with the pony club girls, but is a pretty accurate representation of how I’m riding my sitting trot. (don’t mind the goofy pony kicking at the end of the video… I have such a tolerant/patient horse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvxhRscVf5o

[JRG]

Please forgive me…but you are trying too hard.

It looks like you are trying to drive down with your seat, instead of using your knees and hips as fulkrums. When you do that, you get tired quicker and it gets worse and so on like a big circle. Try shorter bursts, when you feel you can do a few strides then try a few more and so on.

Anyone that says learning to sit the trot correctly is easy, isn’t doing it right! Keep up the good work you will get there, and it will go away, then you will get there…LOL

[molliwog]

Honestly, I never really sat the trot that well until I developed an immense amount of core strength. The core muscles are what anchor you into the saddle (and are a good part of what enables you to sit up straight and stop slumping). Without a strong core, you will be caught in a vicious cycle of not being able to get the horse forward and through enough to bring its back up so that you have a place to sit. A strong core will also allow you to keep your pelvis centered on top of the horse so that he can stay under your seat and work through his body. (Imagine balancing a book on top of your head- if it doesn’t stay centered, you have to keep trying to move underneath it to keep it from falling. If you’re not centered above your horse, he or she will essentially be trying to do the same thing.) Finally, a strong core will allow you to move your arms and legs independently without creating tension, and still remain in balance. Then, you won’t be using your hands inadvertenly to balance, and if you need to send him forward, you can use your legs to do this without losing your balance or creating tension.

The exercises that helped me the most were front and side crunches on a stability ball (I now do these with an 8 pound medicine ball), side planks on a bosu (it’s like half of a stability ball with a flat bottom), and another stability ball exercise where I lay flat on my back with the ball between my feet, raise the ball with my legs, pass it to my hands, lay the ball behind my head, and then reverse this- all without letting my lower back pop off of the floor. Also, I do a lot of squats and arm work with light weights while standing on top of a bosu- you have to engage your core to do this, or you’ll fall.

Now when I sit, I think constantly about keeping those core muscles engaged- and if I feel myself start to get floppy, or tension creeps into my arms and shoulders, I just think of those core muscles pulling me down on top of the saddle and keeping me centered, and letting go of the tension in other areas.

Hope this helps~

[normandy_shores]

[QUOTE=JRG;3272572]
Please forgive me…but you are trying too hard.

It looks like you are trying to drive down with your seat, instead of using your knees and hips as fulkrums. When you do that, you get tired quicker and it gets worse and so on like a big circle. Try shorter bursts, when you feel you can do a few strides then try a few more and so on.

Anyone that says learning to sit the trot correctly is easy, isn’t doing it right! Keep up the good work you will get there, and it will go away, then you will get there…LOL[/QUOTE]

I’m DEFINITELY trying too hard in that video – bareback on a horse that’s been spooky lately and no option but to sit! Unless i’m on the lunge, and sometimes even still, I’m mostly sitting a few strides or a circle here and there and posting. I’m trying to get quality sitting, not quantity.

Still, I agree. I just have so many postural issues before I can even try to sit effectively, and I know what I need to do, I just can’t find a way to make it stick!

(thank you!)

[Tonja]

I think you’re off to a good start. You are planted nicely into your horse’s back so you have a stable base from which to work. It looks like you are collapsing in your upper body because your thighs/seat are tense, so you are absorbing the horse’s energy through your upper body. Trying to correct your upper body without first relieving the tension in your thighs/seat would make opening your upper body position uncomfortable for both you and your horse. The legs need to hang relaxed so that the seat can find balance and relaxation in the saddle, independent of the legs. There are some great lunge exercise that can help improve a rider’s independent balance and the ability to literally rest on the horse’s back without gripping. As your seat is better able to rest independently, you can work on the lunge exercises that will help improve your upper body position.

normandy_shores wrote:

I do take lunge lessons to work on my position and sitting, but it’s totally different than actually riding the horse. Or at least it doesn’t seem to ALL translate for me.

If you find riding on the lunge line easier than working off of the lunge line, ask your instructor if you can ‘ride your horse’ while on the lunge line. This can help you develop a feel for “lunging the horse from the saddle” which comes in handy down the road. While riding your horse on the lunge line you might also find some multi tasking exercises helpful, such as putting the reins in one hand and working on stretching/stabilizing exercises with the free arm. When you carry the reins take care that the contact doesn’t get a downward/backward feel to it. It may help to think of ‘carrying the hand’ on a straight line from the elbow to the bit. Best of luck to you and your horse.

[pines4equines]

Hay

You might try to find a centered riding instructor…even if they are below your level, they work on position and use alot of tips to help you attain a position.

And, if you can get a lesson or clinic with Susan Harris, do it! She is excellent. One tip she gave us was to imagine a piece of sewing thread tied to your breast bone and gently lifting up.

I’m an old dressage rider who really doesn’t take many dressage lessons anymore but I run around after Susan Harris like a groupie! She is a Master Centered Riding instructor with excellent tips and suggestions and is on the mark, all the time, in an incredibly easy going manner.

Also try this book: Emily Esterson’s Adult Longe Lining or Adult Longe Exercises. I got the author correct but I’m not sure of the book title. Excellent exercises to an excellent seat.

[pines4equines]

Hay

There is also another “sitting the trot of a big mover” thread going around right now that might have some super suggestions too.

[Valentina_32926]

Had similar issue but not as bad - could sit my SWB mare all day but not the Dutch mare - WHY? Cause the Dutch mare hollows if you’re on her mouth too much AND has a BOUNCY trot!

This is what helped me. Sit back a LITTLE! I emphasize a little cause #1 people will tell me I’m wrong but mostly cause although I appeared to be sitting straight up and down I was VERY SLIGHTLY in front of the vertical. By sitting back just a small amount (I did NOT appear behind the vertical) I was actually sitting correctly and had my seat bones aligned correctly.
#2 - Doing This will also make it easier to push your shoulders back, look up and lift your rib cage. Be sure your elbows remain soft so that you’re not pulling on the horses mouth during the bouncy part of the ride (I actually feel like my elbows come forward about 1/4" when I’m in the bouncy part of the ride yet still retain a connection to the horses mouth).

Best thing you can do is from the moment you mount start a “song” in your head that’s something like “sit up, shoulders back” (to the tune of don’t worry be happy). Add to that relax your thigh’s,… and you’ll have it… but in order for it to work you must constantly remind yourself and turn it into muscle memory.

[pintopiaffe]

Are you comfortable with the ‘bounce’ inherent in sitting trot–as in, are you upwardly fortified enough? Honestly, I don’t think I truly let go and SIT until I started wearing an Enell. It was defensive slouching in part. It’s also quite hard to round your shoulders in one.

Agree very much that it takes more core and ab strength than I ever imagined–and sadly barn chores even for a full barn aren’t enough excercise; and sitting at a computer in an office is the anathema to core strength. If you can, sitting on a swiss ball helps.

I also “hovered” for oh, 25 years or so, trying to have a ‘soft’, light seat. What that meant was I never really let my weight DOWN, as above posters have mentioned. You have to truly sit. You can’t try to be light. In fact, you need to be heavy in the seat–but strong and flexible, lifting the energy only up.

If you’re getting lunge lessons, you’re probably being made to lift both thighs up and away from the saddle, no? Do that exercise, or, rather, START it. Breathe, and start it again. Breathe and start it again.

Think of bringing your spine toward your hands, and opening both halves of your seat. The trot is as much left-right-forward-back as it is up-down.

This has already been mentioned, but I’ll say it a slightly different way. Post until you get a really nice trot. Then sit ONLY AS MANY STEPS AS IT STAYS NICE. At first that might be two. Then three. Before long you’re doing a short side and a long side. Eventually, you will find you are influencing the trot rather than ‘riding’ it, just before you think you need to post again, you’ll adjust your seat and adjust your horse, and now you are shaping the back.

Don’t expect it won’t change. Once you ‘get’ it, you can loose it. The horse gets stronger, begins collection, finds more loft… you’ll start the posting–sit for three–posting all over again. But that’s ok, it’s the nature of the gaits developing.

The real conundrum is that you have to have the back to sit. But sometimes you have to sit to get the back. For some horses, you really have to be doing quite a bit of lateral work and beginning collection before there the horse really gives you the back to sit on. The ‘conservative trot’ just might not be enough to sit.

[mp]

I can’t see the videos, so I’m basing this on your still photo only …

I’d say you’re slumping to protect your abs/core muscles. Build them up so you’ll have something to hold yourself upright with.

[normandy_shores]

Thank you all for the suggestions and input – I’m excited to go ride my (ever-tolerant) beast!

A barnmate and I are exchanging lots of lunge time over the next few weeks – not as good as tons of lessons, but still a good opportunity.

Thank you!

[slc2]

I dobn’t think you look at all horrific. It takes time. You’ll get better. It’s not a big deal.

Sitting the trot with your hands on your thighs helps to straighten up as well as looking up at the ceiling or sky. Pick a point at eye level to focus on and keep looking at it. I pick a couple points around the ring and shift to each one when I pass the other point.

[AM1]

I find working on posture off the horse has a carry over effect on the horse for me. Anytime I’m walking, I’m thinking about chest up, reaching tall, shoulders down.

And I’ll pass on another tip that helped me greatly. My instructor has been telling me for months to make sure my shoulders are down when I start to sit. Last weekend her roommate said to me to keep my elbows heavy. Somehow that instruction worked for me. I just thought heavy elbows and I felt both my elbows and my shoulders soften and sink and I had the loveliest sitting trot I’ve ever ridden.

[normandy_shores]

sigh

Another cold windy and rainy day. These kind of days leave my horse’s back very sensitive and sometimes sore.

After a nice warmup and a few hours in the barn while warm and dry, I did get a break in the weather to ride. He was being so good and stretchy and offering me his back for some posting trot, so I didn’t push it. Just did 20 minutes of stretchy long and low work and left it alone.

Tomorrow is the lunge. Will re-read these suggestions before I head out to the barn

[system]

Everyone has great suggestions. I would just repeat: make sure you are sitting. Your pelvis looks forwardly tilted in the video. YOGA breathing is wonderful!!! when you breath in you should feel your rib cage grow up and out… that is what you want to feel when you are sitting to the trot. Suprisingly most people dont feel like they are forward but really they are so sitting “back” is good… by that I mean relax your “cheeks” and sit… it will feel like you are going back but really you are actually sitting. Once to get the breathing down and feel your rib cage fill and grow, roll your shoulders around and find the spot when they are down and slightly back. Not unnaturally of course, just good solid posture. These exercises will help build your core strength and constantly remembering to repeat them will ingrain it in your brain. I always tell my students “be proud to ride”… boasting their posture. I find that practicing breathing helps SOOO much. its amazing how many of us forget to breath correctly and in doing so become slightly fetal. Its not unnatural for humans to look down when they walk… and that transfers to riding so remember: your horse will pick his feet up when necessary (hopefully) use soft eyes and look at a destination point. Have one everywhere you go. You are central in your seat which is awesome! keep up the good work!!!

[hessy35]

[QUOTE=pines4equines;3273311]
You might try to find a centered riding instructor…even if they are below your level, they work on position and use alot of tips to help you attain a position.

And, if you can get a lesson or clinic with Susan Harris, do it! She is excellent. One tip she gave us was to imagine a piece of sewing thread tied to your breast bone and gently lifting up.

I’m an old dressage rider who really doesn’t take many dressage lessons anymore but I run around after Susan Harris like a groupie! She is a Master Centered Riding instructor with excellent tips and suggestions and is on the mark, all the time, in an incredibly easy going manner.

Also try this book: Emily Esterson’s Adult Longe Lining or Adult Longe Exercises. I got the author correct but I’m not sure of the book title. Excellent exercises to an excellent seat.[/QUOTE]

Great advice. LUNGE work with no stirrups will teach you great balance and build your core.

[Ajierene]

I came into this spring with some of these issues. I just got lazy, I think, because my posture used to be so great. I took everything told in my lesson and concentrated on me for a bit. I put my mare on a 20M circle and didn’t ask for anything much - just concentrated on where my legs, seat, posture was.

One thing I can definitely tell you - when your posture is correct, you will feel it in your abs. They will work, they may hurt. Trot for a bit just concentrating on sitting up, back (trying not to look at your horse, this doesn’t help the posture). Don’t ask for a frame or anything from your horse, just concentrate on yourself. When you feel yourself start to tire, go down to a walk before you start to slouch again. Take a break, try again, go the other way.

Some of the problem may be that you are trying to get your horse to do what he is supposed to do AND do what you are supposed to do, both at the same time and it just doesn’t always work. So make sure you are straight and correct and his correctness will follow.

[Halfpassfarm]

I thought I knew how to sit the trot until my FEI level instructor had me get more collection from my 3rd level horse by pulling him up with my seat(not pushing forward-that always just through him onto his forehand) in 10 meter sitting trot circles.
It takes using your core muscles, and thigh- with each stride, grip and pull the horse’s midsection up underneath you then relax! do it again. First 10 meter circle I did this on- I about died at the end. But what a feel, I created the bounce- instead of being a follower!!! Most riders actually have trouble with the sitting trot because the are following the motion rather than influencing each part.
I also recommend buying an Andalusian…after dealing with creating collection on the horse above, I got my stallion…found out how easy collection can be when a horse is truly round and loves his work. Plus they as so easy to stay with and influence their gaits- along with all kinds of dressage movement.

Ride with your mind ,is another great book that I keep on hand to reread regularly. My mind doesn’t like the ‘pictures’ that Centered riding uses. I like more logical instructions that I can think though.

Rachel